What the next Sonic game should be

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ST218

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All right. A few months ago, I posted something like this on GameFAQs. Unfortunately, the post was lost. I still remember quite a bit of it, and so, I might as well post it now, this being as good a time as any.

What SEGA should do. Right now, Sonic is in a sort of slump. We had a slump before, between S3&K and SA1, but this is a really bad slump. Instead of no games, we're getting bad games, and it's high time that Sega listens up so we can get some things straight. This is a list of what has been going wrong, and what is going right, and how to fix what is wrong.

First of all, story:

Right now, there's a lot of story that needs tying up a little. The best thing to do is forget Heroes happened. The Chaotix were never hired by Eggman, Metal Sonic never went berserk, and Omega never existed, or at least never was re-activated. Secondly, decide if Shadow is dead. Hang us until the end of the game, but decide.

Now, some minor story gripes. Sonic Adventure, in terms of story, did well. It required you to play all the charecters and piece it together and it made sense. Adventure 2 did better, but left a few plotholes, especially concerning Shadow's early years and Gerald and the ARK. Sonic Battle tied some of this up, then Heroes went and ****ed it up. Needless to say, the story can be complicated, fine, SA1's was. Just don't make it filled with plotholes you can drive a planet through.

Number 2, graphics:

First of all, 2D versus 3D. 3D, most definately. Don't go and whine about how Sonic is better in 2D and all that crap. In the very near future, it'll be financial suicide to bring out a 2D game, because the casual gamer looks on graphics, and will see the cooler looking 3D games. The next game in the Adventure line should be in 3D. Now, from that. The graphics are something that haven't been a really bad problem. There is of course, the camera, but that's for later. Right now, this is how it goes. The SA1 models, if not exactly high quality, look good, as far as design goes. Don't go out of the way to make it realistic as far as charecters go. Sonic is, at its heart, a cartoony looking game. Really, this is a big grey area, because graphics are a real love it or hate it thing. However, one thing to make sure of is that they are attractive. As I said before, the casual gamer looks first on what the teenage boy looks for in girls: Looks. If you have a really sharp looking game, you'll get a few sales based solely on that.

3. Controls:

If the next game is released on all platforms, as it should be, then the controls are something hard. In the old days, you could just have one button do everything. That doesn't translate well to 3D. The way it should work is that you don't overload with controls like a sports or shooter game, but don't under do it like in SA2. The shoulder buttons should stick to the camera, the right analog/c-stick be a free look, and there should be one jump button and the three action buttons. Let's take Sonic, for example. The X/A button should be jump, the square/X/B should be spindash, O/B/X (Damn the XBox and gamecube for their almost similar controllers) should be light dash, and the triangle/Y button should be some other action, maybe a button that activates the current shield a la Sonic 3. That would work out fine, not too complicated, but have everything accessible while not having an SA2 effect of essentially having six unique actions at one time on a single button.

4. Gameplay

This is such a large and important section, it should be split up:

4.1: Charecters, playable

The next game should have four playable charecters, for the main part. Not four teams, not six charecters, not three with a corrosponing clone, four. Those four are Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Amy. Now, the first three are obvious, but why Amy? Amy is an important charecter to the story. "Of course, but so is Eggman/Rouge/Shadow/that little birdy in SA1!" However, Amy is different, not only because of her attachment to Sonic, but for a few other reasons. First of all, she's one of the good guys, all around. That alone merits note. Secondly, she doesn't work as a non playable charecter. SA1's story arc with Amy (Also with Tails, but Amy as well) plays up the fact at the end that she wants to do something, not just sit on the sidelines, but do something and help people. She does that in SA1. In SA2, her usefulness is almost nil as far as the story is concerned. She gets Shadow to get a move on, but that's it. Thirdly, she adds an aspect to the game that deviates from the norm. Amy is an oddball charecter gamewise. She is similar to Sonic, but has to rely on a bit more puzzle solving. Amy can be the one to sneak in and hit a button and play Splinter Cell, or whatnot, without destroying the other charecters gameplay.

Now, as for the other three. Sonic has done somewhat well for the last few games. His levels have been somewhat onesided, being highspeed runs through wherever. Because of that, he should stay where he is. Tails should ditch the mech, seriously. The Tornado's nice to have, really, he can use that now and then. Cyclone is a no-no. Tails should have similar if not the same levels as Sonic, but he should have to use his abilities to get through. I'm looking at you Sonic Advance 1 and 2. A better way to exploit this is that Sonic and Tails get seperated into different areas, and Tails has to fly and what-not. This is one of those times that looking at how Sonic 3 and Knuckles, the only game that has flying Tails and Sonic in a similar scenario, looking at how that game did it. That works fine.

Knuckles is the hard one. His story, as it does in SA1+2 (Remember, Heroes should be forgotten) should revolve around the Master Emerald. Either protecting it, putting it back together, rescuing it, whatever. Now, his levels. Hunting goes bye bye. Now, I know that they were fun, true. But still. The hunting thing just doesn't really fit in. A much better way is to, for example, have the Master Emerald stolen, like (Again) in Sonic 3. That way, you can have your organized levels, while keeping the point a to b factor. In no way should Knuckles have a level where he doesn't glide or climb. Additionally, he should also be able to do things that Sonic and Tails can't, and go places they can't, and, at the same time, have to take a different route because he can't take one of their's.

4.2 Adventure Fields

Now, I know that some people didn't like them. But, let's face it, they are a great part of that "Adventure" feel, and they can be used for more than just a hub world. For example, let's take Speed Highway in SA1, and apply an idea for improving Adventure Fields. It has three missions in it. Get to the end, get to the end with 50 rings remaining, and get to the end in a certain time limit, let's say three minutes. Now, you could do all those as soon as the level is avaliable. Or, you could wait until you get something like, say, the light dash, and use it in the adventure field to unlock a hidden entrance, that starts you at the part where you run down the building, making the third mission that much easier. There is even more you can do with this. Utilize the adventure fields more, and the game will be much better. For an even more novel approach, have the entire game be an adventure field, down to the options menu. Of course, if you screw that up, there are problems, but it's an idea, after all.

4.3 Power-ups.

There are two kinda of powerups. Temporary ones based on things such as your shield and speed shoes and such, and permant ones that upgrade you, giving you abilities.

Temporary power ups seem obvious. Invincibility, speed shoes, shield, magneti-wait a minute. Shields. This is just a personal beef, really, but who else misses the different shields from Sonic 3? The bubble shields gave you unlimited air under water, and gave Sonic a bounce move. The fire shield gave you fire immunity, and Sonic a mid air dash move that smacks of the homing attack, and the lightning shield was arguably the most useful, especially for Sonic, as you got a second jump for Sonic, lightning immunity, and the ability to attract rings. Those should be brought back, abilities and all. The abilities that were for Sonic should be kept Sonic exclusive, to give him that extra little something. This is something that works out great, and strategic shield usage makes some levels cake. I'm looking at you Volcano Valley.

Now, permanant powerups. These should be kept in the levels, really. Hunting around the adventure fields for powerups just isn't fun. Now, that's not to say that you shouldn't have to hunt for some powerups, but you shouldn't have to go through a jungle maze that takes a map to get through. Every level should have at least one powerup. SA2 did this well, requiring you to go back to previous levels to get powerups. What SA2 failed on, was making useful powerups. Flame ring is nice, but really kinda stupid, Light Dash is one of the few good ones, Light Attack was almost pointless, the Magic arms thing much worse, and the Bounce bracelet is the other good one. This is Sonic's repitoire, by the way. I won't mention the Mystic Melody, because that isn't so much a powerup as a key for the Lost Chao missions. Ponder that. Out of five powerups, three are required to finish the game, but there are only two you'll be using actively. Now, in order to pull this off right, you'll need to not overload the powerups. For example, the Light Dash is almost a signature Sonic move now, so that's in. The Bouce Bracelet is rather good, so that's kept. Flame ring goes bye, as the somersault should never ever ever ever have been made. The Mystic Melody should be kept, as Lost Chao missions were rather well done. So, take a look at that. To meet the one powerup/level goal, and seeing as how Sonic should have at least seven levels, you'll need to create more. The Light Attack works well, if there are occasions where it actually useful, without having to slow the game down (Being able to charge it while rolling would be nice), such as a boss (which was the only place is was helpful in SA2). So, that means that three more powerups are needed. Well, what if we stripped Sonic down to his orginal roots, and gave him just the ability to run, jump, roll, and spindash. The Homing Attack would work great as a powerup, instead of an innate ability, as would grinding and the ability to use Shield powers. Suddenly, you've got seven seperate powerups, all of which are useful, and none that slow the game down. That is how you make powerups, so how about you guys pay attention?

4.4 Movement and levels.

Fix the camera. Make it not buggy and not violent. When you've done that, come back. Done? Good. Now, add in the SA:DX Free Camera Option. Done that? Okay, good. Now, you have a camera that doesn't kill you, so people can enjoy the game. Second, learn flow. Flow is being able to know where the level goes and then being able to seamlessly travel through it. Done that? Good. Now, test the level. If you were to go straight through as perfectly as possible, the most it should take is three minutes for the absolute largest level, and thirty seconds or less for the shortest. Also, when going through that level, there should never be a time where you have to "absolutely not matter what happens" come to a complete stop. Seeing the standing pose is for wimps. If you have to jump and hit a switch, it should not slow you down except for hitting the switch. Walking up to the switch, waiting for a dialog in the corner, and pressing a button and pulling back, while sitting doing nothing for five seconds while the door opens, is absolutely unacceptable.

Now, all that is for the speed charecters. If you are taking my suggestion and using Amy, having her come to a stop, be patient and hide, and take five minutes is good, right?

Wrong. Amy, even if used as a slow button hunter, should not take five minutes. If you know where everything is, you should only take about two minutes to go through. The other two are fine, especially if it's a stealth type level.

Now, a little deviation. Don't get me wrong, Amy isn't about to start being Sam Fischer or anything. However, if there is a slow level that would not suit Sonic, such as opening a door for the rest of the gang by getting into a security complex, that is great. Just remember to have nice open somewhat speed levels around.

4.5 Minor Charecters and such

The Chaotix: Please. try not to use them. They are cool, but use them as NPCs if you must, but really, they aren't that great and just complicate things

Random E Series Robot: No. Just no, we don't need a super robot ever time we walk. Gamma was nice, yeah, but he basically fit in with Amy's story and that was it. Let it rest already

Shadow: If alive, yeah. Aside from the whole fanboy angle, Shadow is a good charecter for story purposes, since he isn't good or evil, but more self serving.

Rouge: See Shadow, 'nuff said.

Big: ... I really don't have to say anything here, do I. Big's a decent charecter, but he simply cannot fit into the story. Froggy's not getting kidnapped, and he hasn't lost his fishing rod or anything

Cream: Sigh...Really, she's just a Tails clone. She has her mother and Cheese and Chocola, she's content, unless she pulls a DBZ-esque trick of being a super power or something. I'll give this idea credit, Cream would be a nice plot twist as an evil villian, because of revenge or something like that. Maybe it's too mature for a Sonic game, but maybe not. It's a good idea at least.

Eggman. Supreme Villian, definately. Eggman does not want to help the good guys, he does not want a nice wife and a private place on the beach, and he sure as hell does not want to give up taking over the world, and here's the most important part, WITH THE HELP OF THE CHAOS EMERALDS!!! Eggman wants the Emeralds, and if you don't get them first, bad things happen, like, you know, the bad ending. He also wants the Master Emerald. Enough said. Eggman should not be a good guy, he should not be humbled, and he should be the one that flies off saying "I'll get you sometime you stupid hedgehog!!!", because he's been beaten again, then the credits roll.

5. Sounds and Music

Music: This has been fine, really, There are some tracks that don't work, but overall, Sonic music has been synonomous with quality.


Well, until they started to use rap and hiphop.

Now, this may just be because those arne't my kinds of music, but they don't really fit into a Sonic game. You can have nice music without the rap, it's been done. Also, don't have songs about hopelessness or cutting wrists or whatever the hell Shadow's levels had. Not really Sonic music. Aside from that, music's all right, thank god I only need a small section here.

Now. Sounds. *shudder* Where do I start. First of all, classic sounds. WHOOOOP jump sound, the reving for spindashes, and giant fanfares for extra lives (Not this little deedle do deet doot de we have now). And the voices. Oh god, the voices. This requires a break down for all the charecters, really.

Sonic: Just fine now, but no Sonic Heroes type lines. Those sucked.
Best in: SA2
Worst in: Heroes

Tails: The only problem is, he sounds younger each game. In SA1, he sounds twelve, in SA2, he sounds eight, and Heroes sounds four. He may be officially eight, but he's got the intelligence and maturity to sound twelve. Also, he cares about Sonic as a friend, yes, but SA1's story for him was about being independent and being himself. Yelling "SONIC!" as he falls, or having that be his last word on death simply does not work. He's his own fox now.
Best in: SA1
Worst in: Heroes

Knuckles: He's a loner. He's not buddy buddy with Sonic or Tails. And, he knows a lot, especially about Chaos Emeralds and the Master Emerald. He was great in SA1, especially his narration, had one or two good lines at the beginning and end of SA2, and was horrible in Heroes, due to him sounding like him and Sonic were friends.
Best in: SA1
Worst in: Heroes

Amy: This one's an oddball. Amy's voice is the only one that has improved in Heroes. In Sonic Heroes, she took command. Amy's voice was probably the only voice over that sounded great. She sounded mature and in command, for the most part, and sounded like what she should have, and pretty much has, become. Of course, her lines where she chases after Sonic work too. She's still a lovelorn kid, after all.
Best in: Heroes
Worst in: SA1

Eggman: Heroes destroyed him. He's an evil villian with enough balls to build his own mech, kill hundreds of innocent people with one bomb, and charge the military single handedly without breaking a sweat or feeling a shred of guilt. Eggman is definately not a coward at heart. In SA2, one of my favorite scenes is where he holds Amy hostage. That is absolute gold. Unfortunately, with the death of his voice actor, we may not get that anymore. Only time will tell.
Best in: SA2
Worst in: Heroes

All the other charecters are either fine (Shadow, Rouge), we don't know enough about (Cream), or we just don't care about (Chaotix, Big)

6. Other stuff.

Special Stages: Bring them back, and make them not buggy. That's all I can say. When it wasn't a bug filled crashfest, Heroes's special stages were fun. Also, make the method of opening them the way it was in the past: 50 rings at the end, and make sure to jump.

Bonus Stages: The Sonic 3 and Knuckles ones, to be specific. They weren't used in any other game, which is a shame, because they were nice. Have a certain number of rings at the check point, and jump into the warp.

Super Forms: Bring them back. Super forms for Knuckles and Sonic, to be exact. Hyper Sonic/Knuckles, maybe as an unlockable bonus. Super Tails, same. Amy shouldn't have a super form though. Also, make them usable in regular levels, because that's fun

Two player: This is the only place where Shadow, Rouge, and Cream should be playable. SA2's two player mode was nice, as was Heroes's. It's not hard, but put in lots of variety

Chao gardens: Put them in, give rewards for using them, but don't make them absolutely nesscessary. Not much else to say

Unlockables: In my opinion, one 3D remake of a level is worth ten thousand game gear games. If you want to really go the extra mile, give us a 3D remake of a level for every so many emblems we get. Green Hill, Emerald Hill, Casino Night, Stardust Speedway, Sky Sanctuary, and Ice Cap are all excellent choices.

Emblems and Missions: Give us five different missons per level, like in SA2. The emblem system is not only cool, it's a sign of the Adventure series. Keep them, especially hidden Adveture Field emblems. And give us unlockables, like above, for getting Emblems. Also, relating to the aboce about Super Forms, they should be allowed use in levels, and should be able to be used to get emblems, maybe even be a requirement.



That was tiring. That's about it. Feedback, anyone?
 
Personally, I don't like Cream. Sonic Team will better remove she.
Cream does nothing in the Sonic games except few things. The Cream character is USELESS
I would also like if Sonic Team will release the next Sonic game also for Linux or /and FreeBSD. Maybe BeOS?
Or, better, gave the <next Sonic game 's sources> under GPL like id Software did with Doom. They can always make the game data commercial... and SRB2 will benefit... :mrgreen: Dreaming, but sometimes dreams became true...
 
Personally, I've given up on SEGA until they can redeem themselves by creating something decent. Heroes was the last straw for me.

The reality is that I've been spoiled by SRB2, and SRB2 is better than SEGA could ever dream of making for a current system.

There are two things that SEGA has forgotten about that made Sonic good: Level flow and running up walls. The original games almost never forced you to stop, allowing you to blast through the stages if you were good enough. The key is that the player had to be really good to blast through at full speed. The games didn't force you to go fast, in fact, they encouraged exploration, but the option was always there to blast through the stage at break-neck speed. They did this by having walls that the player could run up to change direction in the stages. This physics engine allowed for genius level design that made it fully possible to blast through the stage at full speed, but as I said, it wasn't required.

The current Sonic games are glorified roller coasters, and have lost the _gameplay_ involved in going fast. The old Sonic games required skill to go fast, and the modern ones quite simply don't. There are speed pads on every open area and loops that you don't have to be going fast to go around, because the speed pad will force you through it. The camera pans to whatever looks the coolest, instead of whatever is the most applicable to the gameplay, and if you've ever tried to backtrack in Sonic Adventure, you'd know that it's totally impossible. That's what needs to change. The plot and visuals are merely dressing for gameplay, and we no longer have any gameplay in Sonic games. It's disappeared to make room for pretty camera angles and scripted events.
 
SSNTails' old review of Sonic Adventure pretty much summed up all the mistakes made in that game. And that review can be applyed to Adventure 2 and Heroes because Sonic Team didn't fix a darn thing in them.
 
Thing is, I still like Adventure quite a bit. It's that they decided to worsen the formula instead of improve on it that's the problem.
 
Sonicandtails218.
Get a job. at SonicTeam. Relay your idea to them. PLEASE.
No matter what it takes, get in a position where SonicTeam will GET THIS IDEA.

If they made that game, I would BEG my parents to get it for me. And I'm not a begging type!

Or else, get a good programmer/team to make a fangame like this. Ser-E-Us-Lee.
 
Sonicandtails218 said:
The Chaotix were never hired by Eggman
No.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Secondly, decide if Shadow is dead. Hang us until the end of the game, but decide.
Let's just say he's dead.
Sonicandtails218 said:
The next game should have four playable charecters, for the main part. Not four teams, not six charecters, not three with a corrosponing clone, four. Those four are Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Amy.
Debatable. I mean, we gotta save room for Vector.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Now, the first three are obvious, but why Amy? Amy is an important charecter to the story.
1117588960483_lmao.jpg

Sonicandtails218 said:
Tails should ditch the mech, seriously.
Yes.
Sonicandtails218 said:
4.2 Adventure Fields
YES.
Sonicandtails218 said:
This is just a personal beef, really, but who else misses the different shields from Sonic 3?
YES.
Sonicandtails218 said:
The Chaotix: Please. try not to use them. They are cool, but use them as NPCs if you must, but really, they aren't that great and just complicate things
NO! WRONG! F MINUS MINUS!

Well, I suppose that'd work... I'd be happy just so long as they (Vector) were in the game. But they (Vector) MUST be playable in multiplayer mode.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Random E Series Robot: No. Just no, we don't need a super robot ever time we walk. Gamma was nice, yeah, but he basically fit in with Amy's story and that was it. Let it rest already
Yes. Please.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Lollerskates_blk.gif

Sonicandtails218 said:
Big: ... I really don't have to say anything here, do I. Big's a decent charecter, but he simply cannot fit into the story. Froggy's not getting kidnapped, and he hasn't lost his fishing rod or anything
Agreed. I rather like Big as a character, but he'd be better off as an NPC or a cameo appearance like in SA2. Y'know, how you can always spot him in odd areas, clinging to walls?
Sonicandtails218 said:
I'll give this idea credit, Cream would be a nice plot twist as an evil villian, because of revenge or something like that. Maybe it's too mature for a Sonic game, but maybe not. It's a good idea at least.
Yes, I think that having Cream go goth and suddenly turn evil would be a rather humerous and interesting twist. No, that wasn't sarcasm.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Eggman. Supreme Villian, definately. Eggman does not want to help the good guys, he does not want a nice wife and a private place on the beach, and he sure as hell does not want to give up taking over the world, and here's the most important part, WITH THE HELP OF THE CHAOS EMERALDS!!! Eggman wants the Emeralds, and if you don't get them first, bad things happen, like, you know, the bad ending. He also wants the Master Emerald. Enough said. Eggman should not be a good guy, he should not be humbled, and he should be the one that flies off saying "I'll get you sometime you stupid hedgehog!!!", because he's been beaten again, then the credits roll.
Sounds sexy.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Also, don't have songs about hopelessness or cutting wrists or whatever the hell Shadow's levels had.
1117588960483_lmao.jpg

Sonicandtails218 said:
Eggman:
Best in: Sonic OVA
Worst in: Heroes
Fixed.
Sonicandtails218 said:
we just don't care about (Chaotix)
Angry.gif Angry.gif Angry.gif
Sonicandtails218 said:
Special Stages
Yes.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Bonus Stages
Yes.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Super Forms
Mabye.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Chao gardens
Yes.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Unlockables
Oh god yes.
Sonicandtails218 said:
Emblems and Missions
*Orgasm*

(Vector)
 
Sonicandtails218 said:
Unlockables: In my opinion, one 3D remake of a level is worth ten thousand game gear games. If you want to really go the extra mile, give us a 3D remake of a level for every so many emblems we get. Green Hill, Emerald Hill, Casino Night, Stardust Speedway, Sky Sanctuary, and Ice Cap are all excellent choices.
Wasn't there a Icecap in Sonic Adventure?
 
Amy has gone to hell. I could see her becoming a villian at some point. I think Sonic tried to kill her in one of the new Sonic X episodes.

To be honest, the only characters I'll ever care about are Sonic and Dr. Eggman. I'll spare Tails and Knuckles though, since they're original, funny, and fit the theme.
 
Meh? I liked SONIC Adventure more than any of the original Mega Drive games. Unfortunately, it seemed to be the last good game I've played ever since. SONIC Adventure 2 was neither good nor bad but rather downright boring most of the time, SONIC HEROES was difficult to control with the three-character formula (I would have been happy if the Spin Dash was implanted; I hate Rocket Accel and its impossibly impossible control), and the Sonic Advance series are ridden with more useless pits, spike traps, and horrible enemy placement than the original Mega Drive games. If anything, SONICTEAM shouldn't go back to their Mega Drive formula. They should try new things, which is what they did for SONIC Adventure, and I commend them for that. However, not only would be good for them to try something new, but it would be good for them to try something new and make it nice. SONICTEAM is trying much too hard to make the games resemble those of the Mega Drive.

Ritz said:
Yes, but it wasn't THE Icecap.

I prefered SONIC Adventure's Icecap, except the snowboarding was extremely glitchy and uneven. Mur.

firemario1001 said:
I think Sonic tried to kill her in one of the new Sonic X episodes.

No.
 
Sonic Adventure: San Andreas

I'd play it.

Yeah... let Sonic Team and Rockstar team up so Rockstar can add a little sex mod to the game. </Sarcasm>

Bah. If that happened... I would madly hate everything Sonic-related just like how I hate the GTA series now. -_-
 
Jake said:
firemario1001 said:
I think Sonic tried to kill her in one of the new Sonic X episodes.

No.

Watch episode 54. The part were Sonic tied over a pool of sharks. Amy tries to grab Sonic, but he swings back and she falls in with the sharks :D . I just downloaded the episode by coincidence along with another episode to see if the new season sucks, and it does. But that's a topic for another day.
 
Sega has really lost it. I only buy there current games still because im a deticated fan. Why I am? Nobody knows... Sega does not deserve any fans. Killing the Dreamcast was one thing. The Dreamcast had many new innovative ideas that were just awesome. The VMU, Online Play, Online Surfing, Downloading save files and Vmu files from the web, etc.
 
firemario1001 said:
Watch episode 54. The part were Sonic tied over a pool of sharks. Amy tries to grab Sonic, but he swings back and she falls in with the sharks . I just downloaded the episode by coincidence along with another episode to see if the new season sucks, and it does. But that's a topic for another day.

Yes, I have seen that episode. But you're wrong in saying that he tried to kill her.
 
I know. I was just joshing with you.

You know what would be cool? A Dr. Eggman game! Think of the possibilities! War, empires, mass epic battles, dictating. I would get kick out of it.
 
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