The Fang argument aka what has to be said

[troplucky]

So as you may obviously know,Fang is considered to be the worst srb2 character but while i do be ok with people having that opinion I DO think he isnt that bad and actually is just a character to learn to be decent as.
When i see people playing Fang its mostly on bosses just because people are too lazy to deal with them but Fang isnt just boss eating its also exploiting slopes.
One of sonic games feature that came back a lot is the slope momentum that you get from jump into and out of them...this is where Fang true power is.
Fang isnt dependent of his ability or the place he is but dependent on slopes.YOU WANT to tail bounce on slopes to see him have his real speed because he do not slowdown until you stop the tail bounce and hit a wall and this is really exploitable but the fact people see Fang as a character that is just slow and here to eat bosses is a wrong way to see him.

What is everyone opinion about him im kinda interessed.I dont want people coming like "Yea Fang is big shit you telling shit" i want actual opinion with argument behind

Post automatically merged: Nov 3, 2021

and please... dont go make drama here i dont want that

 

[yfyfyfyfyfy]

Fang is not as fast as Sonic, but also not as mobile as Tails. this is something between Sonic and Tails. You can go where sonic can't go and you can do it faster than Tails. It seems to me that people don't really understand why and for what this character is needed.

I'm sure Fang will be slightly improved or reworked mainly due to the physics change. Have you tried playing with Player Movement Rework? This is a completely different gameplay.

Fang isnt dependent of his ability or the place he is but dependent on slopes.YOU WANT to tail bounce on slopes to see him have his real speed because he do not slowdown until you stop the tail bounce and hit a wall and this is really exploitable

But what if there are no slopes at the level? Other characters don't suffer if "something is missing". That is, if there are slopes at the level, then the Fang is a good choice, and if there are no slopes, then be kind - play as another character? But other characters don't have this problem. If I want to play as Knuckles, then I just take it, not thinking that there is something on the level (or not).

(note: I'm playing only as a Fang and i really love this character)

 

[troplucky]

Fang is not as fast as Sonic, but also not as mobile as Tails. this is something between Sonic and Tails. You can go where sonic can't go and you can do it faster than Tails. It seems to me that people don't really understand why and for what this character is needed.

I'm sure Fang will be slightly improved or reworked mainly due to the physics change. Have you tried playing with Player Movement Rework? This is a completely different gameplay.



But what if there are no slopes at the level? Other characters don't suffer if "something is missing". That is, if there are slopes at the level, then the Fang is a good choice, and if there are no slopes, then be kind - play as another character? But other characters don't have this problem. If I want to play as Knuckles, then I just take it, not thinking that there is something on the level (or not).

(note: I'm playing only as a Fang and i really love this character)

yea fang is very dependent to slopes for his speed to be good but he actually has the 2nd biggest jump in the game making him also real decent to just parkour around as and while yea he just get fucked if theres no slopes and lets not mention that one apologue level he cant even do because dev forgor about him he is in my opinion more unique than bad and i personally love the fact fang is just a level design exploiter like he can basically just abuse the level hes in or even go on places he isnt meant to be (i see you modded tails routes).Fang mostly wanna take things slowly but when he can he wanna abuse the slopes
knowing slope momentum is a base 2D sonic feature it probably wont leave with a physic rework but some oversights that would lead him in silly situation and softlock him will help him (you get softlock yourself in acz1 because of exploring).Because one of the reason i love Fang is just how many fucking times i lost a ultimate speedrun because of his hitbox
everytime i tried jumping over stuff to dodge it i would get hit
eggman rocket:ded
that one spring enemy on thz:ded
spikes on dsz2:for some reason ded
fang mostly need a new hitbox adapted to how he actually looks because he can die a lot because of estimations that were fucked

 

[A'Dilla]

The thing about Fang is that he’s just ok. I only say this because you have to make a full stop just to shoot a enemy, while the whole vanilla cast can just easily kill a enemy while moving and move on with their life. While Amy isn’t better as keeping her momentum with her Melee, but she still keeps some speed. Fang’s bounce on the other hand, is very fun. The greater the fall, the greater the bounce. The fact you can go really high makes up for his low speed too. Another problem I would agree with is slopes too, going up can be a huge pain depending on how steep the slope is, going down is really fun though. Almost faster than sonic’s thok.

 

[troplucky]

The thing about Fang is that he’s just ok. I only say this because you have to make a full stop just to shoot a enemy, while the whole vanilla cast can just easily kill a enemy while moving and move on with their life. While Amy isn’t better as keeping her momentum with her Melee, but she still keeps some speed. Fang’s bounce on the other hand, is very fun. The greater the fall, the greater the bounce. The fact you can go really high makes up for his low speed too. Another problem I would agree with is slopes too, going up can be a huge pain depending on how steep the slope is, going down is really fun though. Almost faster than sonic’s thok.

well i mean fang can "dangerously" go offensive with his tail bounce and while very punitive can also be rewarding to recover from a mortal fall
and welp yea slopes tend to fuck fang a lot but tail bounce and higher jump can help him out a little

 

[lnferno]

I don't hate Fang, but I feel the fact that he has to stop to kill anything effectively sorta makes him subpar: a similar issue all 3 new characters share for different reasons of their own.

Amy: Is basically just Sonic but she can only spin for a few frames by pressing Jump twice mid-air, and can make springs stronger. Not horrible, but not really fun either.
Fang: Bounce IS fun (sadly it steals momentum, but so does Knuckles' glide at times, and he's the best designed character), but the other main draw makes it so that Fang is a very stop-and-go character, which sorta stands contrary to basic Classic Sonic design principles? At least Spindash gives you more speed afterwards and isn't your primary method of attacking stuff.
Metal Sonic: The jump ability is just boring as hell: literally just skip anything downhill from you, and it doesn't even really help maintain Dashmode, as you can lose it during a hover. Dashmode is cool and should stay though.

 

[h0u5n1]

I'm a huge player of Fang in vanilla and I feel like a lot of people rely on the shotgun to kill enemies but they forget real quick that you can bounce on them like Amy's hammer hit and yeah the slope thing is one of its best advantages and flaws but it just depends on where you use it. The bouncing can still be used in situations other than slopes, you can use it on spikes, lava, electrical platforms, ice, and enemies. His momentum sure is a problem but here again instead of using slopes he can still use side springs to gain speed and his speed is still upgraded by the speed shoe item so Fang kinda always has a way to get faster even though he doesn't get as fast as other characters he can still get higher than most and follow Tails' path in vanilla. He should be seen as another character and not as a worse character.

 

[clairebun]

Fang is such a great concept. He completely transforms combat engagements by forcing players to think about positioning and preparation rather than just attempting to always close distance.

The problem is just that the idea lacks polish. While forcing Fang to stop was done intentionally to break up the flow of Fang's gameplay and force more selective engagement, I think we learned that this mostly just leads to him being a less enjoyable character. I made several tweaks to Fang's gameplay through an addon script which improves his flow and makes him a more comfortable character to play.

The issue of him cheesing bosses has to do a little more with boss design. Bosses are very easy to interrupt meaning Fang rarely has to fear retaliation while firing. Making bosses more selectively enter flinch state would force Fang to be more careful about attacking at the wrong time.

Tail bounce is mostly a good ability, with the obvious issue that the momentum cuts while entering/exiting also break his flow, and I think those could be done away with. It's possible that removing the cuts even creates more interesting speedrunning strategies with the character.

 

[time gear]

I don't feel like Fang is unbalanced, in fact I think he's balanced quite well. He takes some skill and buildup to be able to go fast, and you need to know what you are doing or you are liable to get yourself hurt or killed from the lack of control you have while doing it, but doing it well is also very rewarding. He fits into his own little niche of speed and mobility that's mostly going to appeal to veterans who get good with him.

However, something being balanced doesn't necessarily make it fun, and that's my main issue with Fang. In the hands of someone who hasn't mastered him, he's inferior in regards to both speed and mobility, and this can sometimes cause him to feel unsatisfying and tedious to play. His popgun is only useful in a small handful of situations, and his bounce is worse than just playing as Tails or Knuckles until you get good at building up speed and precision with it.

Something I would very much like to see changed about his bounce is having that split second that he's touching the ground be an opportunity to transfer your momentum into another direction entirely. He seems to be capable of this in the boss fight, and it would be a fair tradeoff for having so little control while midair using it.

 

[troplucky]

Tail bounce is mostly a good ability, with the obvious issue that the momentum cuts while entering/exiting also break his flow, and I think those could be done away with. It's possible that removing the cuts even creates more interesting speedrunning strategies with the character.

Fang when slopes: HAHA SPEED GO BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Post automatically merged: Nov 8, 2021

also i found how Fang is meant to beat apologue making amy the only last one to discover how