Team Fortress 2 update thread. No hatin'

[MechaS3K]

http://www.teamfortress.com/mannconomy/

Okay, this has been out for a while now. For those of you who haven't noticed, you can now use real money to buy items and weapons(and anything else on Steam, for that matter) without all that tedious mucking about in the crafting system. In addition, there are now item sets that give a bonus effect when equipped.

Great new convenience for casual players? Or beginning of the end for gameplay balance? DESCUSS

 

[TrueTenguMan]

If they really want to complain about gameplay balance then they'll get rid of that compression blast for the pyro as well as any speed buffs from his equipment.

Other than that I see no actual real threat here to the game; You'll still get free items from time accumulation which can be for crafting and all... well if not a crate >_> so really regardless of what said weapon you received, you still got it early for a class.

 

[Jazz]

Set bonus = pay to win.

Actually this is the best update to TF2 yet. It got me to stop playing TF2.

 

[Shadow Hog]

If they really want to complain about gameplay balance then they'll get rid of that compression blast for the pyro as well as any speed buffs from his equipment.

...so remove the only thing that makes the Pyro even remotely balanced (seriously, did you even play Pyro before his update?), as well as something that isn't usually even relevant but comes with its own notable downside (he dies faster to guns) when it is. Yeah, that'll make the game more balanced all right.

Set bonus = pay to win.

Who pays for it? It's hideously expensive; you could buy several entire games (if only cheap ones) for the asking price. Just craft it (4 refineds + Polycount item of that class) or trade for it (3-4 refined was their value IIRC). Besides, I swear the hat drop rate has increased considerably, so you may be able to just trade several hats for one.

Some of the sets don't even really work, anyway. If you seriously think the Sniper's set bonus is going to help him win, when he can't even headshot and can't use Jarate to take advantage of his new knife (sure, he can use Sydney Sleeper, but that would apply it to targets well out of melee range), then really, you've got another thing coming. The inability to be headshot is practically a consolation prize, like, "we're sorry you're using the crappiest set of them all, here's a minor compensation".

 

[clairebun]

Although I don't agree with the concept of set hats, at this point I don't really care. Gameplay effects shouldn't be tied to something that's hard to get, but the reason it was done that way as opposed to just applying the set to the polycount weapons is because the hat is a visual indicator that "he's a milkman, and this other guy can't be headshot", where otherwise an enemy player might not have any idea what he's dealing with.

And the reason why some sets only have upsides is because equipping some set items at once is not advantageous; take soldier, for instance. Both of his new weapons are good, but by equipping both at once, you're harshly limiting your firepower than if you were to equip Black Box and shotgun. The set bonus gives you incentive to actually use that loadout. The spy bonus has a cloak time penalty, because you don't really lose anything by equipping both L'Etranger and Your Eternal Reward at once.

The iffy stuff lies in the scout's weaponry. Mad milk, I can deal with, because you still lose a valuable pistol, but the shortstop at launch practically had no real downsides to it, being superior at long range and pretty much as good at short range as any other gun (I think they might have nerfed it since then though, because it's easier to strafe away from the shots than it was before.... probably just a modification of the spread). Then you have +25 HP on top of the mad milk, and this adds up to a powerful, really goddamn durable scout. Barring the shortstop, you could argue that the set bonus's lack of some sort of penalty is warranted because you lose the sandman, but I dunno.

And of course, you can buy these items, hence "pay to win". Even if the sets are balanced, the people that have them are at an advantage because they have the option of switching to them. That's where this becomes a problem.

Then there's just the "uh what" bonus that effectively removes headshots the sniper wars. I can't look at the Sidney Sleeper and say to myself, "Oh yeah, this can definitely match up to the regular rifle." It's like the heavy update all over again.



What I'm glad for in the update though (and since this is easily my favorite class) and what keeps me playing is what the polycount did for the pyro. The set bonus is cool but has a legitimate downside (nevermind bullet damage, there's no axetinguisher!), and degreaser+axetinguisher is.... pretty much where the pyro should have been at in the first place. Finally, I can actually ambush soldiers and heavies without them turning around and gibbing me in the face! The faster weapon switching makes the pyro much more competent at combat in general, really helps to make him one of those "low skill floor, high skill ceiling" classes instead of just sucking throughout. The regular flamethrower still isn't worth using, but I guess that's an issue for Valve to tackle another day. I don't think the class is entirely fixed (where's my airblast jump dammit), but this is a huge step toward making the pyro a class worth playing in skilled environments.

And @TrueTenguMan, no. Take it from someone who has 300 hours and counting on the pyro. The class needs all the help it can get.

 

[TrueTenguMan]

...so remove the only thing that makes the Pyro even remotely balanced?

And @TrueTenguMan, no. Take it from someone who has 300 hours and counting on the pyro. The class needs all the help it can get.

Alright fair enough... but DOES the flamethrower really need it? Wouldn't of made more sense to feature this ability for just Degreaser? It seems more appropriate...

 

[clairebun]

Why DOESN'T the flamethrower need the compression blast?

 

[Bigboi]

Here's my backpack on September 28, two days before the Mann-conomy/Polycount update. Now here's my backpack at the current date.

If you think that getting hats is difficult, you're probably just doing it wrong.

Anyway, I'm one of the few who enjoys the Sniper Polycount set, if only for the mindfuck factor. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a sniper battle where I, after a while, switch to my Croc-o-Style gear as subtly as possible, just to have my opponent go "what the hell that was totally a headshot" and only catch on after about 5 or 6 149-damage headshots.

That said, it's an update that's made for the useless snipers: the ones that only go after other snipers. At least we were given both the perfect complement for Jarate (the Bushwacka) and the best Sniper (maybe even best in general) hat of all (Ol' Snaggletooth).

As for the Pyro's Polycount update, I think it's, for the most part, balanced. I think that giving the Pyro a speed boost should be considered taboo, because of the advantage it gives W-M1 Pyros, but the 10% bullet damage increase really keeps it in check (perhaps maybe a little too much, but still). Also, removing the compression blast, TrueTenguMan? Are you kidding me? Man, you can tell you were on the 360 version.

Look at my backpack, and check out my Short Stop's (it's literally the first item in my backpack) information for a detailed summary of my thoughts on the Scout's Polycount update. In my opinion, a Short Stop/Sandman Scout is way more lethal than a whole Milk Man loadout, but I'm pretty good with the Sandman, so maybe it's just me being good that makes me say that.

The Spy's Polycount pack is only good for trading with Dr. Who fans who will shell out way too much stuff (Yeah, Cue, a Fez is really worth a pair of Earbuds) for a Fez. Pop quiz: the Fez is actually a reference to something better!

I mean, yeah, I can see its uses, but I'll stick to being able to disguise and having a revolver that's not a total piece of shit, thanks.

 

[TrueTenguMan]

Why DOESN'T the flamethrower need the compression blast?

Man, you can tell you were on the 360 version.

When you think with fire and fire kills, it's like every other weapon you had was pointless, hence why I believed compression looked abusive as hell considering you could trap your target in a volley and burn him to death. Even though I should of looked more on Pyro, you can't blame one for having a grudge on him because of the flamethrower and afterburner. Or rather more bluntly, Pyro just seemed more as a mindless class because of the flamethrower.

 

[MechaS3K]

inb4fandu- oh wait

I personally think that Polycount is a good idea. Saharan Spy + Cloak and Dagger = best infiltration ever. However, something must be done about the crates. Make them available directly from the Mann Co. Store so they don't bother everybody else.

And really, you people should be glad that TF2 is being updated at all.

 

[Shadow Hog]

you could trap your target in a volley and burn him to death.

Except there's a fairly notable cooldown after you airblast, during which time you can't shoot at all. By the time you're firing again, they're pretty much on the ground again, rendering the airblast pointless.

Unless you have the Axtinguisher out, in which case, well then.

 

[Bigboi]

inb4fandu- oh wait

What?

I personally think that Polycount is a good idea. Saharan Spy + Cloak and Dagger = best infiltration ever. However, something must be done about the crates. Make them available directly from the Mann Co. Store so they don't bother everybody else.

Honestly, despite it being a "I'm a complete pussy" item of Black Box/Natascha proportions, it probably works a lot better with the Dead Ringer, considering the insanely loud de-cloak noise it makes. Also, the only thing they need to do with the crates is give them their own weekly drop limit, instead of having it take away from the normal drop limit, where it's pretty much just a waste of a drop.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Also, the only thing they need to do with the crates is give them their own weekly drop limit, instead of having it take away from the normal drop limit, where it's pretty much just a waste of a drop.

Already does, man.

 

[MechaS3K]

What?

Honestly, despite it being a "I'm a complete pussy" item of Black Box/Natascha proportions, it probably works a lot better with the Dead Ringer, considering the insanely loud de-cloak noise it makes. Also, the only thing they need to do with the crates is give them their own weekly drop limit, instead of having it take away from the normal drop limit, where it's pretty much just a waste of a drop.

1. It was supposed to be "inb4fandumb", since whenever TF2 goes, fandumb follows.

2. Even if they put a seperate limit on crate drops, they still pile up in your inventory uselessly until you unlock them or decide to be a troll and trade them with random noobs for something of value.

 

[Jazz]

Who pays for it? It's hideously expensive; blah blah blah.

Doesn't matter. Players using a polycount set without the hat are generally at a disadvantage to any player using the same polycount set with the hat. Unless you want to tell me that two scouts with the same loadout, one should have 25 more HP than the other?

If you think that getting hats is difficult, you're probably just doing it wrong.

If I want to sit in a trade zone and play the market, I'll play an MMO. I'd rather play a FPS. Plus, most set classes are useless anyway despite the bonus. The problem is a matter of principle.

 

[supersonic45]

Actually this is the best update to TF2 yet. It got me to stop playing TF2.

This.

I know TF2 is an experiment game but there needs to be a limit on what Valve does with their set items.

And they still won't nerf the Natascha even though it's a complete upgrade except in like 1 or 2 rare situations.

 

[Violo]

There's a TF2 Beta now so that they can test the new features for weapons. Including Natascha. So stop complaining and rate them if you're going to whine about Natascha.

 

[clairebun]

And they still won't nerf the Natascha even though it's a complete upgrade except in like 1 or 2 rare situations.

Welcome to a day ago.

No seriously. Play the beta.

 

[Bigboi]

This.

I know TF2 is an experiment game but there needs to be a limit on what Valve does with their set items.

And they still won't nerf the Natascha even though it's a complete upgrade except in like 1 or 2 rare situations.

I wouldn't really call facing another Heavy or a Sniper a rare situation.

And yeah, as BW said, there's the beta.

 

[supersonic45]

Welcome to a day ago.

No seriously. Play the beta.

My bad, I don't have any TF2 news up so I couldn't tell if they had the beta up now.