Stuff to put in 1.09

[Mystic]

I still say both of the renderers have their own stupid problems.

Software has issues with large areas and skies in said large areas, as well as a few stupid renderer bugs when next to a thok barrier and with sprites on FOFs. It also has a tendency to create vertical lines in areas with a lot of complexity. Take one look at one of Shadow's maps or anything with a lot of FOFs next to each other in software and you'll see exactly how buggy it is. Also, because of how software is drawn, it is not possible to look straight up and down, for obvious reasons.

OpenGL has issues with many video cards to start out, and a lot of quirks with the lighting. For one, it's WAY too bright. It also makes colormaps not as strong as software, although sometimes that is a good thing. It will also paste colormaps onto FOFs or Lower Unpegged textures that are above the water, which creates really weird looking grass over something like slime, with a drastic color difference between the purple slime and the green grass. Translucent walls straight up don't work at all, either. The OGL coronas for many things look kinda weird, which I will admit Blaze dealt with rather well in SASRB2. Also, it doesn't terminate rendering correctly on a one-sided linedef, so it occasionally shows things behind the thok barrier.

By the way, a441, that camera going in the wall issue occurs in both renderer modes. It's a problem with the camera, not the renderer. It does happen to be a little easier to randomly occur in OpenGL for some reason, however.

I simply use the renderers for different things, myself. I use software when playing 1 player or any mode where I prefer to have the third person camera. I use OpenGL when playing deathmatch or any mode where I prefer first person, since the higher resolution and looking vertically is really nice when trying to aim.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Bah. If I could only code myself. :[

Would you make the OpenGL renderer not reboot my computer anytime I run it in a sane resolution? Not look like crap in every level that uses a colormap or a translucent wall? Not get the view stuck in walls constantly? Light the floors and walls in a way that has a smidgen of realism? Handle colormaps sanely instead of turning them clear or black for no reason?

The OpenGL renderer isn't disfavored because I'm a moron. It's disfavored because it's a piece of junk. Fix those issues and I'll favor it 100%.

Never said you were a moron. Outside of transluscency and rain, I've never really seen much wrong with OpenGL. (The only color map trouble I've had was when it came to flashing color maps, otherwise they seem fine)

I also understand that wrangling with that kind of rendering code, considering the way Doom does stuff, is difficult. Proof enough of that is the fact that AJ himself rarely screwed around with the OpenGL renderer - but has gone on to do his So Far So Bad ("Buzzy" I think he calls it) engine, which does stuff SRB2 can't, rendering-wise =P That easily says to me, "It's easier to code something from scratch than it is to get this to work in SRB2".

I'm just saying it would be nice, that's all.

 

[a441]

Software has issues with large areas and skies in said large areas, as well as a few stupid renderer bugs when next to a thok barrier and with sprites on FOFs.

Hardware, on the other hand, has issues with every area.

The important thing to notice is none of your examples are typical. Minor sprite sorting bugs may show up in the Egg Capsules in GFZ3 and THZ3, but besides that, a play through the average SRB2 level, for the most part, simply avoids software's flaws, including problems with the camera.

 

[a441]

Outside of transluscency and rain, I've never really seen much wrong with OpenGL. (The only color map trouble I've had was when it came to flashing color maps, otherwise they seem fine)

http://mystic.sepwich.com/srb2wad/download.php?f=mta_contest-jan04.zip

Play MAP04 in both renderers and compare.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Outside of transluscency and rain, I've never really seen much wrong with OpenGL. (The only color map trouble I've had was when it came to flashing color maps, otherwise they seem fine)

http://mystic.sepwich.com/srb2wad/download.php?f=mta_contest-jan04.zip

Play MAP04 in both renderers and compare.

Ignorable. Somewhat odd looking, I'll admit, but I forgot about it enough to the point where I didn't even know what was wrong with the map when I looked at it in OGL first.

 

[a441]

Uh, does OGL have some benefits for the legally blind?

You obviously can't be using it for its good looks...

 

[Shuffle]

Opengl looks much better.
It makes really far away textures not look as if they keep magnifying themselves and with trilinear filtering, flats look really nice ^^.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Uh, does OGL have some benefits for the legally blind?

You obviously can't be using it for its good looks...

Want me to get more screenshots? 'cause I can.

 

[a441]

No, I mean, if Acid Ravine looked right to you, you obviously have no concept of good looks.

Personally, I think the "coronas are cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1" novelty wears thin within a few seconds, if that.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

No, I mean, if Acid Ravine looked right to you, you obviously have no concept of good looks.

Personally, I think the "coronas are cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1" novelty wears thin within a few seconds, if that.

Filtered textures, then? Being able to view large maps with no visual anomalies? The latter is especially pleasing, considering it's annoying when I have a big map and SRB2 freaks out in software mode yet looks fine in OGL.

Personally, Mystic's right. Both suck. It's either you go for compatability and ugly everything else or pretty and incompatible, when infact, the support that's broken are things that are SUPPOSED to make the game look pretty!

Personally, I find the incompatabilities tolerable to the point where I won't push any harder than I am right now. It's be great if they were fixed, but I know that's not in your power, my power, or AJ's power.

 

[Mystic]

Software has issues with large areas and skies in said large areas, as well as a few stupid renderer bugs when next to a thok barrier and with sprites on FOFs.

Hardware, on the other hand, has issues with every area.

The important thing to notice is none of your examples are typical. Minor sprite sorting bugs may show up in the Egg Capsules in GFZ3 and THZ3, but besides that, a play through the average SRB2 level, for the most part, simply avoids software's flaws, including problems with the camera.

Those "minor sprite sorting bugs" make it really ugly in levels with high FOF amounts. Also, those same sorting bugs make it impossible to do that original moving floor idea I have for AGZ, because if the enemies touched the floor they'd totally disappear. I don't consider that to be a "minor" bug. =P

I still maintain that both renders suck, and I just use the one that is better suited for what I'm doing at the time. The main gripe I've got with OGL is the fact that it pastes colormaps on GFZGRASS and FOFs, but it turns out that software can occasionally do that too, as it does in Special Stage 2 in Mystic Realm. The translucent wall problem doesn't come up nearly as much as water does.

 

[SSNTails]

The colormap bugs in software are not so much a bug as understanding how the colormaps function.

 

[SRB2-Playah]

Aaaaaannnd... Another idea!
Cameras!
And here's how they'd work...
There'd be 3 new things, called 'Security Camera', 'Invisible camera', and 'Camera lookpoint'. Security camera is a visible camera of which the appearance can be guessable. Invisible camera is the same as the Security camera, 'cept invisible. Camera lookpoint is where the camera would look.
the Cameras would act similar to a player's 1st person viewpoint. The Cameras angle number would be more of a 'tag', Since the 'Camera lookpoint' will be used. You can then tag a sector to the same number, then place 'Camera lookpoint' there. The camera thing will scan the sector for a Camera Lookpoint. And if found, will lock on it. If no sector has an identical tag, it will scan the whole level for a camera lookpoint. If it finds any, it will lock on the nearest one.
And, new sector type. 'Player cam lock'. When set to this type, a camera that's been 'tagged' will lock on, and follow a player if one enters. Once the player leaves, the camera will scan the area for more players. If there are none, the camera will lock back on the lookpoint.
And then, new linedef category! 'Camera', which contains 'Camera (color), and 'Camera (B&W)'. They will work like FOFs. the middle graphic of the linedef would be named CAMXX, With the 'XX' replaced with the camera's 'tag' number. The upper graphic will be the FPS (Frames per second). You can set it low, to decrease lag a bit, or to imitate low-quality cameras. (The low-quality camera imitation won't really work if it's with a 'Color' linedef type. ) Camera graphics should stretch to fit the FOF block side.
And then, the FOF's sides will display what the 'Cameras' see.
Security cameras will be able to be destroyed, like an enemy. But, if you set a camera to 'deaf', it'll respawn after a few seconds. If a camera is destroyed, the lower graphic of the control linedef will be displayed instead of the camera's view. So thus, new graphics shall be available. Static, TV station blank signal, Smiley face:D with a 'We are experiencing technical difficulties' message, Or just blackness. Which would stretch to fit the FOF too.
This'd be neat for security rooms in Eggman bases. Or goofy party levels some WADders do. Or to see what Crawla Commanders do when you're not looking.

Yeah, This idea's not really useful, Gameplay-wise. :?
And I know there's a low chance of this happening, But, there's at least SOME chance. And it'd be neat to have at least a portion of this idea used. And I have nothing to lose by submitting the idea. ... 'Cept maybe respect. :| :P

 

[Shadow Hog]

This reminds me quite a bit of Massmouth for some reason... for a good reason, it showed off some of the cooler things that could be done with the camera (like how you can see your character from the first few moments, to how it forces you to move one direction when your space ship is "launching").

Not entirely sure what we need it in SRB2 for, at least right now. Unless, of course, you want to do cutscenes. Or machinima, though that's a lot more work than necessary, innit?

 

[Mystic]

You can actually already lock the camera and change it's angle and distance manually with linedef executors and the like. However, the real truth is that messing with the camera in-game intentionally would lead to the ol' Sonic Adventure issues of having the camera randomly rotate and the player would kill himself because of the change in controls.

The beauty of SRB2's camera is how stupid it is. It gets stuck behind walls and the like, but it does it predictably. Compared to Sonic Adventure's camera, I much prefer SRB2's stupid camera than SA's "Out to kill the player" camera.

 

[a441]

You can actually already lock the camera and change it's angle and distance manually with linedef executors and the like.

You can?

There's the buggy camera scanner, which works if you only use one of them, sometimes.

 

[JTE]

Whoo hoo! Out to kill you camera! At least that was SOMETHING that kills you in SA. Not that it has any effect on people who've played through a few times and know where all the camera changes happen.

 

[Mystic]

You can actually already lock the camera and change it's angle and distance manually with linedef executors and the like.

You can?

There's the buggy camera scanner, which works if you only use one of them, sometimes.

Well if nothing else 1.09 has the script linedef executor, so you could run a script to change the camera angle and position. I thought there was a stupid way to change the camera angle in 1.08, though. I might just be on something, though.

 

[Shadow]

if this hasn't been said already,how about(for people who wan't private servers)a password option.......server can set the option on passworded server on or off.....and others have to type in the password to get in.

 

[a441]

Rather not. I've seen how the "disallow join" has been used in ways that border on tyrannical, and I don't want to foster bad spirits in the community. If you want to host a private game, just don't tell people about it you don't want in.