SRB2 Multiplayer Survey Results

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Jazz

Member
Attached to this post is a zipfile containing the survey results advertised on the front page of SRB2.org for the past two weeks in PDF format. Download the attachment and take a gander at the results.

Thank you all for your participation.
 

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badboy

Member
Interesting results, but nothing particularily surprising.

Sonic always had the advantage over Tails and Knuckles in every gametype.

Also, the Bounce ring has it's uses, but it just has too few, or the opportunity just doesn't arise as often as it does for the other rings.

The lag in netgames? Always been there, always has been frustrating.

All in all, I think this survey only confirmed the obvious - but the percentages were pretty interesting to look at.
 

Mystic

Member
Well, some of the percentages are a little more telling than you seem to think. Of particular note is that almost a third of our players play match in third person, and that while Sonic still has the edge in match, he's no longer used exclusively like he used to, with an approximate 40-30-30 split among the characters.
 

badboy

Member
Well, some of the percentages are a little more telling than you seem to think. Of particular note is that almost a third of our players play match in third person, and that while Sonic still has the edge in match, he's no longer used exclusively like he used to, with an approximate 40-30-30 split among the characters.

Hm, I suppose I didn't properly read that one: I thought just about everyone played Match in first person (how they manage to actually hit a target is beyond me).


You're right - I have seen an increase of non-Sonic "matchers".

One question though: how often have you seen someone with Tails/Knuckles win a match (considering the skill of the other players, overall seriousness of the match, etc.)?
 

CobaltBW

Community Noise Maker
Sonic Team Junior
One question though: how often have you seen someone with Tails/Knuckles win a match (considering the skill of the other players, overall seriousness of the match, etc.)?
This is an important question I don't think a poll would have quite been able to answer.

Knuckles definitely has a high skill ceiling now, since his good agility and speed makes him fare standard against open fire, his fire rate makes him a bigger threat, and the high top speed of gliding, as hard as it is to achieve, makes him impossible to hit and is definitely where he reaches the peak of his abilities. Maybe a little higher of a skill floor than Sonic, but that's alright.

Tails? Single-handedly rendered useless by the rail ring. Lacks any real agility and can only achieve a respectable top speed through spindash flight; trying to move around in the air, again, negates this small advantage. Being in the air can only score points if you have a weapon with splash damage. I could go on, but yeah, experience with Tails definitely tells me that he's still seriously underpowered in the match department. I don't think this can be solved with just level design changes alone (although the new additions are quite nice); he needs enhancements to his flight mechanics, maybe a modification to his ringslinger so all weapons fire slower but have a little splash damage. Give him some incentive for aerial combat.
 
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Jeck Jims

Oh, THAT guy...
Sonic Team Junior
Kart Krew™️
He could drop bombs! Like Eggmanway5 did. Bad mod, but tails dropping bombs work for him. Fly over things-drop bomb-bye bye. Maybe the Explosion Ring could change when he is flying to a bomb dropper?
 

Kyasarin

Member
You won't be able to properly see below you for dropping Bomb Rings to work (unless you're in OpenGL).
And what about the people that want to keep using it as normal while in flight?
 

Mystic

Member
BlueWarrior, I think you're trying to play Tails in a manner where you're going to get shot down. Sonic and Knuckles are great in a straight fight, on the ground. Tails really isn't. The best way to score hits as Tails is to shoot as a player that doesn't actually know you're there, and then fly behind something that prevents retaliation. If you hit them and see they aren't carrying rail, you can be more daring, but even then it's best to stay conservative and stay out of sight for the most part. Tails has the best mobility in the game but is generally vulnerable when he's using it, so use it for quick, short bursts instead of floating up high where you're a prime rail target. Tons of passages in all the match stages are one-way for Sonic and aren't for Tails, so it's generally about using the stage geometry to your advantage to make sure it's never down to a straight fight. There are also perches in most stages that are high-up platforms you can use to block shots (watch out for explosion piercing the floor) and give you a good position to snipe from.

tl;dr: Play Tails like a rogue and you'll do better. Do it from behind, then run away.
 

MascaraSnake

Maybe out of retirement?
I still think Tails has a disadvantage compared to Sonic and Knuckles in Match. Sure, he's much more of an option now than before, but he's still the worst choice pretty much. If you go out in the open, you're the obvious easy target and will get hit a lot more than other players. If you hide (which is necessary to actually collect a sizable weapon stack), you get fewer chances to score, especially in the indoor levels. The rogue tactic you mentioned, Mystic, has exactly that problem: You get relatively few chances to score, so you need lots of shooting skill to perform it successfully, and if you get hit during an attack, the only good way to recover is go in hiding again. Sure, a really skilled Tails player can still win and there are sure situations where Tails is the best option, but if you average it out, I think Sonic and Knuckles receive slightly better results.

Making flight easier to handle would definitely solve this problem, but it would break a lot of other gametypes at the same time, most obviously single player and CTF. I really don't know what to do here, but I think it's an issue the dev team should observe a bit and try to come up with concepts. It's not a glaring flaw in game balance, but I would say it's one of the more pressing issues. So in essence, Tails is okay for Match as he is now, but he could use some refinement.

Other interesting observations: The weapon ring popularity. Grenade is not nearly as god-like as thought earlier, in fact only Bounce is less popular (for obvious reasons). I don't think this is a big issue, because both Bounce and Grenade are very situation-dependent, but I sure fond it interesting. I also found it amusing how Rail ranked high both in the "exclusive" and the "dropping" question. Clearly shows how much skill you need to operate this weapon (and this comes from somebody who can't aim shit with that thing). I think the weapon system is fine as it is, even if Bounce and Grenade are quite weak in comparison to the rest.

Race is also an obvious problem. Tails and Knuckles are almost useless, but I don't think that can or needs to be changed. Also, with the revamping of Competitive mode (for the uninformed, the current Classic Race), we have another gametype that I think will grow immensely popular. (By the way, why was there no gametype preference question?) I'm beginning to question if Circuit stages are such a good idea after all. Race is much more interesting on the single player stages, in my opinion, and also more balanced. Then again, the removal of Circuit altogether would cause quite a community backlash. They're not as terrible as Chaos, so I think they should be left in.

Excuse my terribly long post, I just wanted to share my thoughts and play dev for a few minutes ;)
 

Charybdizs

>WTB lamp oil
Administrator
Judge
I agree with Mystic, you usually lose as tails as when you try to be a berserker like Sonic. Speaking of which, I have no idea why so many people play a sonic, he is SO bad for getting around the map, especially CTF ones like cloud palace.

Awesome things you can do with Tails and sometimes Knuckles that you can't with Sonic:

1-Rail people while flying.

2-Fly up to high places and snipe.

3-Fly up to high places and grab hard to get weapons.

4-Fly around and drop grenades on battle scenes.

5-Ninja people by sitting in high places (The rafters in Silver Cascade or the ceiling in Cloud palace) and jumping down on the poor unsuspecting flag bearers and nailing them with explosion rings.

6-Fly on the ceilings of hallways to stay out of the direct line of fire and get an unexpected shot in on enemies coming the opposite way.

Also, people say Tails has a horrible fly speed... Has anyone of you noticed that he is only slow as you move upwards? If you alternate between bursts of actually flying upwards and then drifting with the momentum you have, you go a lot faster and your movement is irregular, making it harder for people to hit you.

If only Knuckles could look around while climbing, he would make the best sniper ever.

@Srb2 developers: PLEASE do not get rid of the bounce ring just because it got last place... I am in love with it and my heart would break if you took it away from me. Running into enclosed places with it, mouselooking, and firing at random is more effective than even the automatic ring.
 

MascaraSnake

Maybe out of retirement?
@Srb2 developers: PLEASE do not get rid of the bounce ring just because it got last place... I am in love with it and my heart would break if you took it away from me. Running into enclosed places with it, mouselooking, and firing at random is more effective than even the automatic ring.
I really doubt they'll actually remove a ring. Just possibly try to balance the system out some more.
 

CobaltBW

Community Noise Maker
Sonic Team Junior
Well, you guys play the game more than I do nowadays, but I'm really not convinced that Tails' skill ceiling is high enough. I do think the character needs some of its mechanics to be refined, particularly his stiff controls while flying, but if guys insist otherwise, I'd be a little more content with videos, pics, what have you, of Tails doing well in match against equally skilled players, if only to prove he can top a scoreboard against players who know what they're doing.
 

Mystic

Member
The rogue tactic you mentioned, Mystic, has exactly that problem: You get relatively few chances to score, so you need lots of shooting skill to perform it successfully, and if you get hit during an attack, the only good way to recover is go in hiding again.
This really depends on how many players are in the game. In a smaller game, backstabbing works great because you don't have to worry about constantly getting points as long as you get a few consistently. In a game with 16 people, Tails is completely boned.
 

Kaysakado

Member
I also found it amusing how Rail ranked high both in the "exclusive" and the "dropping" question. Clearly shows how much skill you need to operate this weapon (and this comes from somebody who can't aim shit with that thing).
I have to point out here that if you want to use something exclusively, it's because you are good with it, but that if you want to drop it, it's because you think it's bad for the metagame. You could be a boss with Rail and think that it's a really annoying weapon that probably shouldn't be in SRB2, and choose it for both questions.
 

MascaraSnake

Maybe out of retirement?
I think a lot of people chose it for dropping because they can't use it well themselves. Just like many Tails players use Tails because it's their favorite Sonic character, not because they're good with him.
 

Charybdizs

>WTB lamp oil
Administrator
Judge
Just like many Tails players use Tails because it's their favorite Sonic character, not because they're good with him.

I joined a CTF game the other day, and the server host, Celestial, had been having a discussion about good Tails players. When I joined, he was like "Oh, that's right, Charyb was the name of that other good Tails player!" I don't even remember seeing him in a netgame before, but it made my day! :D
 

badboy

Member
Knuckles('s) [...] speed makes him fare standard against open fire, his fire rate makes him a bigger threat, and the (his) high top speed of gliding [...]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but his glide (at max speed) is slower then his maximum running speed, which is slower then Tails' spindash/strafe-fly.


[...]
1-Rail people while flying.
[...]

Railing takes alot of skill, and if you move too fast, it's pretty challenging to be able to hit a target properly. Tails flies pretty slow if you don't spindash-fly, which does make him a better candidate to rail in mid-air then the other two characters.


[...]
tl;dr: Play Tails like a rogue and you'll do better. Do it from behind, then run away.

Even if you play him as you said, it's still not an effective way to get points: this method requires waiting for opportunity, and it doesn't come often.
 

Mr. Mystery

Member
This really depends on how many players are in the game. In a smaller game, backstabbing works great because you don't have to worry about constantly getting points as long as you get a few consistently. In a game with 16 people, Tails is completely boned.
flyingfoxpower.png


lol k?
 

CobaltBW

Community Noise Maker
Sonic Team Junior
I'm not sure if that one's a particularly good example. A small map like that completely breaks done at around twelve players due to excessive ring spam with no cover. I got thousands of points just by spamming bounce rings at the wall and watching people get hit.

Correct me if I'm wrong - but his glide (at max speed) is slower then his maximum running speed, which is slower then Tails' spindash/strafe-fly.

Even if it is, Knuckles can turn easily and maintain all of his speed. Tails can't.
 
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