Ringslinger Discussion

[clairebun]

For reference, "ringslinger" refers to any of the game modes that revolve around shooting rings, e.g. Match/Tag/CTF etc.


Uhh I don't really know how to structure this particular discussion. I know most of the modes don't get much playtime nowadays. I guess just share your feelings on the modes, what you like/dislike about them, all that stuff.

 

[softchassis]

So I understand in a general sense that there's trouble balancing the game mode around the character abilities. I'm not going to be an armchair developer and try to suggest any particular solutions to that.

I will say though, that after my new-to-srb2 friend and I completed a run of co-op, we messed around in ringslinger for a little while. We both agreed it was probably the most fun we'd had in a FPS-style game in a while. Something about throwing actual projectiles and having to lead your shots while moving at high speeds was just thrilling to us. We were also playing as Knuckles and Tails, so maybe using their skills in the middle of a fight also contributed to how fun it was. Something about the ammo pool also being the health pool also makes it fun.

I really hope ringslinger isn't on the chopping block and that you guys can figure out a good way of making it feel balanced, because it is seriously just a blast to play. It is a truly unique PVP FPS experience that I 100% believe would be extremely popular with some tuning.

 

[U.Flame]

I've always been somewhat intimidated by ringslinger. Like my ping, lack of practice, or general bumbling will hold people back. I doubt the scene is as toxic as it used to be, but the more out of practice I am, the less confident I am in trying it out again.

As a concept I really like it, but its so different that I feel it needs its own tutorial. If Amy could hold our hand like she does in the single player tutorial, I feel like lots more people could ease into it. Maybe something like Overwatch's practice mode could help too, with targets and the like.

Ringslinger to me has always felt like the only way in is to jump into the deep end and try to survive. I think it could use a wading pool with floaties. Ease people in, and they'll be less likely to hold people back online. Unless they have low ping.

 

[sluggard]

My Brother likes Ringslinger modes more than the actual game LOL, we'd often start splitscreen Match or Tag and I let him use Mouse + KB while I use the joystick, we both suck but they're still fun to mess around with.

 

[Seaballer]

Skipping the Fang discussion and going straight into Ringslinger, huh. ...

I guess just share your feelings on the modes, what you like/dislike about them, all that stuff.

Now, I don't quite like Match as much as Tag, H&S and CTF for one sole reason - there is no clear objective in mind! The other modes take advantage of map size to create some really fun and thrilling experiences (finding a good place to hide and running away desperately during tag is one of the most exciting things ever), while Match mode is just a bunch of players running around, throwing rings around to... rack up points for... profit?

Hide and Seek as a whole has become just a stale version of Tag mode and I don't think it's nearly as fun as the latter. Mostly because they ARE pretty similar in concept.

CTF is fun - it's exactly what I want from SRB2's ringslinger. Maps that are MADE specifically for the gamemode, areas that players can take advantage of for surprise attacks and raids, and a clear objective - capturing the enemy flag. It's perfect the way it is, at least gameplay-wise.

More of a personal thing, but I've always found aiming a really big hassle. Maybe the firerate can be touched up a little bit to compensate for this? It's really awkard to mash the fire button in hopes that you can hit an erratically moving player - though I guess that's what the other rings are for...

What could really be touched up is the HUD, I think. There's already a mod for some of these on the MB, but updated Tag/CTF graphics or maybe even a minimap ala SRB2Kart could make the game a lot more interesting, although I can see the issues that come with adding a map to a chasing game.

Now for my last nitpick about Ringslinger - character viability. Something something this has already been talked about SO MUCH it's nauseating, but I can't just let it slip because of it. In every single server there are bound to be a trillion Sonic players in tag, and a trillion Knuckles players in H&S, because that's literally what it has become. Use Sonic to run fast. Use Knuckles to hide. Sure, maybe Tails can pop up sometimes, but what about Amy? Or Fang? Or Metal? There is no difference between the way these 3 interact with custom rings and the way the OG trio interacts with them; and at least Sonic, Tails and Knuckles actually have mobility. There's no reason to use the unlockable characters.
I think the best way to solve this is to give each character a ROLE in combat. Something that makes them stand out. This has also been adressed in the MB, but what about making it ala TF2? Amy could be a healer with a playstyle oriented around her pity shield, Knuckles can work as a tank, Sonic as a hit-and-run, Tails as a sniper, you get the idea.

Oh, I forgot - a tutorial. Definitely a tutorial.

That's it! I've always been a fan of SRB2's ringslinger, but there's DEFINITELY a way to make it more interesting.

 

[MK.exe]

I used to only play match and ctf all the time ever since i started playing srb2

In a nutshell. Match itsn't great.

Maps are fine and dandy but its just the horrible balance between the characters and weapons. I know all of you are well aware of the PTSD Sonic-Thok-Spammers. The weapon set is fine as it is right now but there are like 2 main weapons of choice that allow you to control the whole game, Bombs and Rails.

Bombs are great in theory for controlling areas but matched with a Sonic-thok-spammer [and maybe a Full spin-dash knuckles glider] you are screwed. I'm not sure how we could balance the bomb ring at all since its quite annoying to avoid in some occasions and I dont even think a longer cool down will make the weapon even 'fun' to play

Rails are... well yikes. Great for long distance shots and that sweet sweet dopamine but they are seriously overpowered in the right hands and can be a newbies worst nightmare. I've proposed this Countless times - Make the Rail act like a "Bow 'n' Arrow", e.g the longer you hold the fire weapon ring button. The further and faster the ring will travel. if you tap the fire button it could be just red ring.

now.... CTF is much better.

The weapon rings are still an issue as stated previously but CTF is so fun to play. It can be a shame for super experienced players who get tied up with newbies but to me that adds to the challenge of battling everyone else and makes me feel reeaaaaal good beating a whole team 'Alone' lol. [Works the same vice versa too!]

The maps are Solid besides Nimbus ruins. More of a nitpick but but it can be difficult to see some times on the map. Hitting shots across the map were so satisfying but now i gotta guess through the mist.

Overall - Match needs alot of work to re-balance the characters and weapons even and CTF is ok right now but i think with a multiplayer re-balance i think it would make the whole experience soo much better.

 

[TrustyGun]

I concur with adding a ringslinger tutorial, the mode is pretty unorthdox as far as multiplayer FPS's goes.

Other than character balance, I think one of the biggest things match/ctf has against it at the moment are the maps. There's no slopes, and they weren't designed for the unlockable characters. They really need to be redesigned, or even remade from the ground up like the singleplayer maps.

 

[Vlad Freeman]

I'm not sure if ringslinger gamemodes will eventually become as much popular as the Co-op.
From my perspective (and I might be wrong), I see that SRB2 is being "advertised" as a relatively casual game for those who look for a 3D platformer Sonic game: GO FAST (or slow) from point A to point B, beat bosses, explore maps, look for and unlock cool stuff. It seems to me that most players come to casually beat the game offline and/or play together online in co-op and hangout for fun. Even if they play ringslinger modes, they usually prefer Tag or Hide&Seek as they're the easiest ones to pick up and play.
I can't say the same about Match and Capture The Flag. They're clearly built for FPS kind of gameplay and seem to require certain amount of physical/mental skills and experience to enjoy the game on random public servers without any frustration. Sonic games are not known for being competitive.

By the way, I see that most players on Master Server struggling with proper movement and aiming with a mouse. I think that simple bots may be the solution to make inexperienced players at least take a glance of the unique ringslinger gameplay. The game might benefit from having a tutorial or a quick reference on how to play the game. Remember the introduction stage in Quake III Arena or UT (not the best examples, other games might do it better), it was relatively enough for the time it was released.
Etra Games YouTube channel describes this problem and even has some positive results with teaching people on how to play FPS games by developing a game specifically for that purpose.

Match mode is just a bunch of players running around, throwing rings around to... rack up points for... profit?

Not as much, but it's usually all about dominating other players. It's a classic arena shooter type of gameplay.
I guess the problem of people seeing it as "running around" and nothing more is because of its chaotic nature when there are lots of players in a single arena: there is nothing much else to do in cramped areas if weapon panels are getting collected and monitors are popped as soon as they respawn. Not everybody likes that kind of gameplay, and that's perfectly fine. It's just how it works, it's not like a battle royal game on a huge map.
But the less people are in the game, the more strategic it becomes: you have to control important areas that might benefit other players and constantly harass them to keep your score high, so it becomes more than just throwing rings around.

CTF doesn't seem to require as much FPS skill to enjoy as long as there are lots of players on a server: there are more safe areas (because maps are usually big enough) so you can prepare for a fight, nobody is going to harass you as much, and you can come up with valid and relatively easy tactics such as staying in your own base and throwing grenades/bomb rings when someone approaches your flag.

 

[Seaballer]

But the less people are in the game, the more strategic it becomes: you have to control important areas that might benefit other players and constantly harass them to keep your score high, so it becomes more than just throwing rings around.

See, this here is the problem. Oversimplifying it, match only gets good when there are few people. It could definitely use some sort of rework to accentuate the strategic and land-control aspect of it. I understand the appeal of Match, I really do; but it's just... not as enjoyable as it COULD be.

 

[JEV3]

What could really be touched up is the HUD, I think. There's already a mod for some of these on the MB, but updated Tag/CTF graphics or maybe even a minimap ala SRB2Kart could make the game a lot more interesting, although I can see the issues that come with add

Has anyone ever made a mod out there that shows a minimap in match mode? Even if it just shows a top-down layout and none of the other players on it, I think it would have gone a long way to making it easier for me to find my way around the new (at the time) 2.0 stages for Infernal Cavern and Azure Temple... however I wonder if the minimap might be kinda hard to read if they just show the sectors.

I think the best way to solve this is to give each character a ROLE in combat. Something that makes them stand out. This has also been adressed in the MB, but what about making it ala TF2? Amy could be a healer with a playstyle oriented around her pity shield, Knuckles can work as a tank, Sonic as a hit-and-run, Tails as a sniper, you get the idea.

I think there was a sort of attempt at that kind of thing before with giving Knuckles a different firing rate and buffing Tails' fly speed (which actually made him remotely viable for the first time in MP, and made him my favorite character to play as). One of the issues though was that properly balancing the characters around multiplayer would involve introducing mechanics (other than ringslinging itself) that are not in SP and very different from SP.

But if the mode is already different enough to warrant its own tutorial, then maybe adding certain MP only abilities to each character can still work? Maybe treating ringslinger like it's a distinct game from the SP might prevent multiplayer balance "holding back" changes that need to be made for the story mode, and vice versa.

 

[Frostav]

Ringslinger is very weird to me, and it's honestly because of the base design, so it's not something I'm going to say should be changed. The fact that it takes effort to be as close to regular sonic gameplay as possible, using the same health mechanics as well as physics, means it feels unlike any other FPS out there. It also means I just suck at it even worse than regular FPS's, because the characters move like leaden beached whales in comparison to say Quake or CS characters and getting hit is extremely punishing when you get hit and feels utterly pointless when you hit someone else.


But it is how it is. I understand that the devteam has little interest in ringslinger just being Quake But Sonic, and it would honestly feel weird if it were so different from the main game, but yeah. I just can't get a grip on it.

...I do still wanna see a Bomb Defusal-esque mode where the teams are a group of Freedom Fighters (counter-terrorists) and a group of Eggman-allied Traitors (Terrorists), where the goal for the Traitors is to plan a roboticizer and the goal of the Freedom Fighters is to either kill them or deactivate it before it Bad Future's the map.

 

[RazeZX]

I understand why most people don't like ringslinger, it's extremely unbalanced and sometimes unfun, but I really enjoy playing it. It definitely is not the best thing there is to SRB2, but I'm not going to lie, I've had some good fun playing it with friends.
Now, I'm not too sure what could make ringslinger more interesting, but I totally agree with the idea of having a tutorial, or at least making it clear that those gamemodes exist.

 

[Seaballer]

Has anyone ever made a mod out there that shows a minimap in match mode? Even if it just shows a top-down layout and none of the other players on it, I think it would have gone a long way to making it easier for me to find my way around the new (at the time) 2.0 stages for Infernal Cavern and Azure Temple... however I wonder if the minimap might be kinda hard to read if they just show the sectors.

I also think a minimap could work pretty well. Even if it's just a map showing the player icon and a top-down view of the sectors, it could be a pretty nice addition to change the flow of the game a bit. It'd be especially nice if, during Team games, you could see all members from your team in the minimap. You know, in case you're feeling too left out, you could always find one of them to team up with.

 

[Tatsuru]

Yup, we do have a minimap mod from this thread's OP truly.

 

[Edna]

Maps are fine and dandy but its just the horrible balance between the characters and weapons. I know all of you are well aware of the PTSD Sonic-Thok-Spammers. The weapon set is fine as it is right now but there are like 2 main weapons of choice that allow you to control the whole game, Bombs and Rails.

Bombs are great in theory for controlling areas but matched with a Sonic-thok-spammer [and maybe a Full spin-dash knuckles glider] you are screwed. I'm not sure how we could balance the bomb ring at all since its quite annoying to avoid in some occasions and I dont even think a longer cool down will make the weapon even 'fun' to play

Rails are... well yikes. Great for long distance shots and that sweet sweet dopamine but they are seriously overpowered in the right hands and can be a newbies worst nightmare. I've proposed this Countless times - Make the Rail act like a "Bow 'n' Arrow", e.g the longer you hold the fire weapon ring button. The further and faster the ring will travel. if you tap the fire button it could be just red ring.

Overall - Match needs alot of work to re-balance the characters and weapons even and CTF is ok right now but i think with a multiplayer re-balance i think it would make the whole experience soo much better.

I was planning to make an entire thread of my experience coming back to this game, I still plan to do so...

But, I would like to point out some of the things about "Ring-Balance".

In the days of 1.09.4 - The maps (I must say, they have changed greatly.) The maps were open with less coverage. So, It was harder to defend against the rail-ring. The maps were open and wide, meadows match is a good example of this. You are put into a position where you are open, but in order to defend against the rail-ring, You need to play around with your surroundings. The current maps allow you to do so.

The Rail Ring - I do not believe it needs to be nerfed, or any form of adjustment. However, for the sake of characters like tails that do not have outstanding air mobility. Aerial terrains for them to play around with and shield them would be a great help. These areas should also be places where sonic just doesn't have access too.

The Bomb Ring - This ring is a little cheap, though. I remember back in the days when playing with "SB". He would jump on a teleport box, and a second before it teleports you. He would shoot the ground, teleport would activate and the player would be forced to take a hit. It's a little cheap in match mode and is the only ring that can do this.

Now, to deal with these "Thok spamming sonics + Explosion". That's not necessarily overpowered, either. All you need to do is know the hitbox of the bomb, and jump back. You don't need to thok, you don't need to fly, you don't need to glide. Let them dash at you, jump back a bit and boop them!

I do not feel that any ring outshines the other. These two rings definitely don't control the whole game. Auto, scatter, and bounce also have a role in the game.

 

[TehRealSalt]

Ringslinger is fundamentally flawed because of 2 conflicting design decisions: "consider it a different game, so playing it from a different perspective & with new controls is fine" is mixed with "we don't want to change the abilities/stats per mode, because we want the learning curve to be the same between modes". I've heard both of these things even back in 'fun days. I think either of those approaches are perfectly fine, but they start to fall apart and make no sense when put together.

Most games with a "battle" mode either have already designed the game around some level of PvP combat (Mario Kart), or change mechanics or add controls (Shovel Knight Showdown). Of course, Sonic is not a PvP game, so it has to opt for changing mechanics. I just think what it focuses on changing is "distracted". Changing the perspective is a step too far in my book, but swearing by the same abilities & stats even when they cause legitimate problems... I've always thought "bruh, pick one". Personally, I think the fact that you have to play in first person & have to aim up/down is far, far harder to stomach than changing even the characters' abilities per mode would ever be.

I have lots of complaints with the current mode if you ignore those fundamental flaws. For instance, there's DK64-level of collectibles to maintain, you lose them on hit instead of death, many of the bigger maps just don't have that many distinct landmarks or same-y looking areas, and it's way stronger to focus Infinity & ignore every other weapon because it keeps your health & ammo separate. However, even if you fixed all of that, I don't think I would find it very fun, simply OK.

My ideal Ringslinger:

• Focus on third-person as the recommended mode with a third-person crosshair. I believe this is THE most important change, because most people just look at Match being first-person, go "ew", then leave the server.
• Throwing out a single shot, or getting hit, shouldn't have massive ramifications. Throwing projectiles should use your ammo count OR your rings, never both. This makes Infinity one of the best rings by a long shot currently. Getting hit currently is the equivalent of dying in any other Deathmatch arena shooter. It's just far too punishing and frustrating to play.
• Projectiles should also be huge, fast, and easy to hit small & fast targets, to reduce the amount of aiming skill -- this sounds like a reduction in depth, but currently, Ringslinger matches consists mostly of occasional stray bullets and extremely one-sided Rail fights. Most fights in Ringslinger right now are only fought using the weapons that are the most efficient on ammo or take up a lot of space (Infinity, Auto, Grenade), so I don't think reducing the aiming skill requirements & make all weapons take up more space would hurt it at all.

Essentially, I think the focus should be less on pin-point precision first person aiming, and more on dodging, movement, and jumping. These things that are already taught in the SP campaign, but it would apply them in a different scenario. That's what a great MP mode would be for SRB2 -- alternative ways to play with and experience the core mechanics, not trying to be another game.

That's just my take on it though, the other valid approach would be to double down on the shooting & aiming, and actually make them different games! Open up to more to do more Ringslinger-only changes to have mechanics to better compliment the shooting. I think this approach is more trouble than it's worth, but if the reasoning for the 1st person perspective is "it's fine for it to be it's own game", then I want to see it go all in -- be it's own game, not held back by the design of the singleplayer.

I think SRB2's MP is now way too hyper-focused on "game balance", instead of just being a dumb fun distraction. There's a reason Tag is still popular, after all. I will be the first to admit that Circuit was shallow as fuck, but it was enjoyable just for being the only MP gametype that had unique levels while still focusing on the platforming; the thing I play SRB2 for. 1.09.4 Ringslinger was badly balanced, and mapping for it was really restrictive, but in the end it was dumb fun to play the rotation every once in a while. 2.0's revamp tried to make it "balanced", which... congratulations, it's now balanced, it doesn't have the dumb fun anymore, and it's still not gonna be played at EVO :P

EDIT: One last point... I champion Sonic 3's Competition Mode as an amazing example of a side multiplayer mode. It doesn't really try to be full-fledged game or super balanced or last your hundreds of hours, but that's OK since it's just meant to be a fun distraction that gives you extra playtime & the ability to play against a friend. That's all it needs to be.

 

[clairebun]

Throwing out a single shot, or getting hit, shouldn't have massive ramifications. Throwing projectiles should use your ammo count OR your rings, never both. This makes Infinity one of the best rings by a long shot currently. Getting hit currently is the equivalent of dying in any other Deathmatch arena shooter. It's just far too punishing and frustrating to play.

This is an interesting observation. You could say that rail and bomb are also made more useful by the fact that they consume less rings per second.

 

[TehRealSalt]

I meant for this to be a very short reply, but the thoughts just kind of flowed so... whoops.



That definitely is true, but cooldown & properties does impact their usefulness. Infinity has no limitations like that, it's just Red Ring that uses ammo instead of health. Rail is similarly powerful to Infinity, just because the benefit of infinite range is far and away worth the cooldown & ring cost it has -- even if you miss, it's the only weapon you can use from far away. Bomb feels far more difficult to use, it has a wonky radius that doesn't truly match the explosion effect it has; the paraloop implies it lasts some time, but it actually only hits on the first tic, when it's the smallest. The old style of spawning several, short-lasting red rings in all directions hit people way less often, but the visual at least felt more consistent and gave you more feedback as to why it missed.

I've single-handedly won games by focusing solely on Infinity and ignoring other weapons, because all of the weapon variety & versatility in the world does not matter in the face of having backup health, and getting hit while holding panels you aren't using is actually a benefit to your opponent.

The gameplay loop is supposed to require circling the map to maintain all weapons so you have as many options as possible, which means you get players to move around rather than camp in one spot -- this is the basic gameplay loop of any Doom/Quake era arena shooter. It starts to break down when it's an advantage to avoid the weapons that you don't want to give to your opponent.

The idea of weapons that everyone wants and is always good in any situation... is actually fine! Doom has the Super Shotgun as a general purpose 99% of the time a good idea weapon, and it has the BFG as an OP weapon the mapper can place in cheeky and difficult spots. It creates natural hot spots for action that draw everyone together to fight. However, Infinity is not placed like that -- it's usually placed in random out-of-the-way corners. It just doesn't feel like Infinity was supposed to BE powerful; it doesn't feel powerful, I'm not even sure if newbies who Infinity is meant for even notice how powerful it is. It's just powerful because of the mechanics, which is fine on paper, but not when it detracts from every other weapon.

Rail is similarly problematic, not because it's super powerful (although, let's not beat around the bush, it is powerful), but because it's the only weapon with any long-range ability at all, which means you're at a flat disadvantage for not using it. There's no other weapons you can run in place of Rail, you always need it. Class shooters often run into this problem -- you want everything to fill a specific niche, but you want SOME overlap so you're not forced to use one. Doom doesn't really have much explicitly long range combat since its hitscan weapons have random spread and its projectiles are slow, but it does has weapons that all vary in range. The Shotgun and Rocket Launcher are relatively decent choices for long-range, the Super Shotgun and Plasma Gun are more short/mid range, and the Chaingun is useful at nearly any range but is fairly weak. Each weapon has varying advantages and disadvantages that might need you to assess the situation before you shoot, and that choice can be impacted if you haven't collected all of them, or ran out of ammo for some. It's an unspoken decision that is thought about almost every second, but it's an important decision.

The best way I can describe SRB2's weapon system is "added complexity, but reduced depth". All but Rail being very short-range means that the decision making of which weapon is best in each situation is reduced; less depth. I actually think removing Rail would be a good patch-over if a revamp won't happen. I like the concept of Rail, I like the variety it adds, but it just doesn't fit with the other weapons' design -- if every weapon was short-range, there would at least not be such a polarizingly best option. Needing two resources to shoot is definitely more complex, but I would argue that it doesn't add any depth. It adds moments where you need to decide if you want to retreat to grab more rings and have to avoid players while doing so, or tough it out with fewer rings. This also sounds like a fun idea on paper, but in all of my matches it's never been a good idea to play it aggressively. In pretty much every PvP game I've played, defensive strategies are both really boring to do and really boring to play against, and games changing to encourage aggressive strategies has always been a good thing -- that's why I believe that encouraging you to retreat more often is flat out not fun.

Many of SRB2's weapons face an uphill battle due to the health system. Normally arena shooters can balance each weapon around different health values to give them different levels of power. SRB2 is much more binary than that, you either dodged it or you drop your rings. I think you guys already did create a great solution to this: different levels of knockback! The way it was applied doesn't always make sense; it makes logical sense that high knockback was applied to an already powerful weapon like Rail, but not gameplay sense. I think there needs to be more attention to what weapons it gets applied to.

Lastly, I'll add that the Ringslinger modes are possibly the most frustratingly disappointing modes to me because I'm a fan of all of the things in the mix -- I like Sonic, I like Doom, I like Deathmatch arena shooters... yet I've avoided all of the netgames for it even in my friend groups. It's just not enjoyable at its core, I'll just continue to play Doom or Quake for its Deathmatch.

 

[Rumia1]

Ringslinger is probably the most fun first person shooter experience I've had. It's such a fresh experience to use your health bar as ammo against other players. I do think that the rings are a bit too slow moving though, and I'm slightly upset that only Knuckles gets any sort of playstyle change, that being that he can throw rings faster. I think it's still a great addition to the game though.

Making getting all the emeralds give you essentially super for 20 seconds is a good change, but I do wish you would break mechanical immersion for a moment and give us legitimate superforms for 15 seconds instead. If you really must explain it, say that the emeralds will leave you in 20 seconds or something.
The only other change I can remember off the top of my head and see by playing the game is that you no longer lose your weapon panels until you die and this is a freaking miracle. I can't tell you how hopeless it feels losing all your weapon panels and having to find them again.

That should cover most of the basic ringslinger stuff, now onto the gamemodes that are built off of this:

Team match... I think this is basically made for if you're too lazy to go into CTF and type map mapM0 -force. I don't really see the point and it's probably my least played gametype. You can't even switch colors.

Tag is absolutely fun to play, running around and evading not only rings being thrown in all directions at the end gets really frantic and intense. I think touchtag should be turned on by default though because tag is built upon the whole idea of people touching you to tag you.

Hide and Seek forces you to find a good hiding spot and pray that you don't get found within 30 seconds. Sadly the match maps aren't really built around this but I have hosted this mode in the Co-op maps and people seemed to really enjoy it since it tests your knowledge of stage layouts. I would either suggest making more maps playable in Hide and Seek with an adjustable timer for hiding, or taking small portions of the standard mapset and making separate maps for hiding in. Again, I'd say touchtag on should be the default here.

I'll admit, I suck at CTF. I'm more of a flag runner than a defender so it's very luck based whether I get a person who defends my team's flag well or also goes after the opposite team's flag. It's extremely chaotic but I feel good enough players can just camp at the flag and take it when it's free. It's not a very balanced gametype and I think the adjustments I'd make are to respawn everyone after a flag has been captured, and also make it so that the flag has a delay as to when anyone from the opposite team can pick it up again.

Also I'll just end off with this since there's no multiplayer general topic: why can we still not play splitscreen online? Kart's done it already and it works fine!

 

[Edna]

The best way I can describe SRB2's weapon system is "added complexity, but reduced depth". All but Rail being very short-range means that the decision making of which weapon is best in each situation is reduced; less depth. I actually think removing Rail would be a good patch-over if a revamp won't happen. I like the concept of Rail, I like the variety it adds, but it just doesn't fit with the other weapons' design -- if every weapon was short-range, there would at least not be such a polarizingly best option. Needing two resources to shoot is definitely more complex, but I would argue that it doesn't add any depth. It adds moments where you need to decide if you want to retreat to grab more rings and have to avoid players while doing so, or tough it out with fewer rings. This also sounds like a fun idea on paper, but in all of my matches it's never been a good idea to play it aggressively. In pretty much every PvP game I've played, defensive strategies are both really boring to do and really boring to play against, and games changing to encourage aggressive strategies has always been a good thing -- that's why I believe that encouraging you to retreat more often is flat out not fun.

I will retract my previous post regarding the rail ring for what I have selected in bold and italic.

The rail ring does prevail in all situations, undoubtedly the best ring in the game.

It does need some adjusting and toning down, along with this game needing a quality of life change, IMO. Which, I will discuss later on.

My thoughts on the Rail Ring

I think this is the overall go-to ring, It is all-purpose. It has the best reward in Match and CTF.

Personally, this ring does not bother me. (It does to a degree, but there's an additional reason for it.) I would hate to see the ring be removed because it has always been there. But, I believe that is also a potential answer to address the issue.

What I would do is.

• I would bump up the ring cost. The reason is for me, I can accumulate a high amount of rings easily. Shield for defense purposes helps greatly, so in most matches/CTF I normally possess around 100~200 rings. 5/10/15/20.

• I would remove the knockback effect. Aside from scatter rings (close combat only) and bomb. I do not see a reason why this ring would even need this effect, to begin with.

• I would add a few more seconds of cool down, warrant it's not meant to be used up close. (I'm fully aware it's not possible to stop that.) But in a way, if the said player decides to do so, they immediately need to go defensive or risk being booped instead.

The Quality of Life Change

Now, I would love to believe this is completely reasonable and should be patched out. This is my sole reason for disliking the rail ring because it happens too frequently and there is nothing I can do about it.

And this goes for all players if you hit the player up close or at any distance really. When they are in hit animation, is there any reason why we should be hit back with a rail to the face immediately?

Of course, this only happens when the player has a shield. Shields should be a priority if you do not have one. But, this really shouldn't be a thing, to begin with.