Removed objects/actions...

[r543]

Hi everyone, this is my first post.
I have some questions about the removed things in srb2 and i think that it would be good if they were added again:

Silver Ring box
why was this removed ?

only 1 character ability/removed ability
i know superhyperultramystricsonic.wad used everything and was overpowered, but the levels are hard without flying or gliding or any thok, and what's the problem when people use overpowered characters when they can't join servers with it and everyone can use it when it's added to the server ? I think there should be something like power=1 where you can activate wall breaking like knuckles because characters without spindash can get stuck in most of the levels.

character color black
this makes it impossible to do a shadow that can change to super

custom characters have no super form
this makes it hard to test the super forms because you can't use a command to get the emeralds in multiplayer and what was the problem with custom super forms ?

find the 3 emeralds
i've seen that some wads added that but it can be glitchy sometimes

adventure mode
why was this removed ?

I'd like if the sonic team junior team would add the removed things, because srb2 was a lot more fun back there and it was more popular because you could make a custom character that could do everything like a normal character and wasn't limited

Could you add the colors from srbcb ? it would add a lot more to custom characters.

And i have a question about srb2 jte
would it be possible to create srb2 jte like it was on the 1.09.4 on the new srb2 ?

 

[Monster Iestyn]

Silver Ring box
why was this removed ?

Not sure exactly myself. I guess it just wasn't really needed?

only 1 character ability/removed ability
i know superhyperultramystricsonic.wad used everything and was overpowered, but the levels are hard without flying or gliding or any thok, and what's the problem when people use overpowered characters when they can't join servers with it and everyone can use it when it's added to the server ? I think there should be something like power=1 where you can activate wall breaking like knuckles because characters without spindash can get stuck in most of the levels.

I have no idea what you're saying happened with the character abilities. The problem with using overpowered characters is that it kills all fun with trying to play the game without breaking it completely. After everyone's beaten every single map in the game in a few seconds several times over, ...what do you do then?

character color black
this makes it impossible to do a shadow that can change to super

I believe that was removed because it was unfair in dark maps, but then I guess same could happen for any color.

custom characters have no super form
this makes it hard to test the super forms because you can't use a command to get the emeralds in multiplayer and what was the problem with custom super forms ?

Custom super forms in Single Player? Super's restricted to just Sonic in 2.0 because otherwise it wouldn't be a special thing for him anymore. Every Tom, Dick and Harry the hedgehogs were using it back before 2.0. Even your neighbour's pet dog character wad could turn super!

find the 3 emeralds
i've seen that some wads added that but it can be glitchy sometimes

I believe the gametype's still around, it's just Christmas Hunt Zone that was removed. Making an Emerald hunt map's really as simple as adding the Emerald Hunt thing types onto a Single Player map, and voila it's now Emerald Hunt!

adventure mode
why was this removed ?

Nobody liked it, so pretty much everything for it was taken out ...well, except for Homing Thok, which exists as an available character ability. And the Analog camera's still available as an option for use in SP (doesn't work in multiplayer), if you want to play GFZ or ERZ with that for some reason.

Could you add the colors from srbcb ? it would add a lot more to custom characters.

SRB2CB doesn't even add that many new colors. SRB2 Riders/SRB2 Kart on the other hand have even more colors.

And i have a question about srb2 jte
would it be possible to create srb2 jte like it was on the 1.09.4 on the new srb2 ?

Probably, but it's best SRB2JTE stays just for 1.09.4. =P

 

[r543]

Not sure exactly myself. I guess it just wasn't really needed?


I have no idea what you're saying happened with the character abilities. The problem with using overpowered characters is that it kills all fun with trying to play the game without breaking it completely. After everyone's beaten every single map in the game in a few seconds several times over, ...what do you do then?
well, you could play it normally or make a character that doesn't break it or let people break it if they want to


I believe that was removed because it was unfair in dark maps, but then I guess same could happen for any color.


Custom super forms in Single Player? Super's restricted to just Sonic in 2.0 because otherwise it wouldn't be a special thing for him anymore. Every Tom, Dick and Harry the hedgehogs were using it back before 2.0. Even your neighbour's pet dog character wad could turn super!
not every character had super forms, but you need to get the emeralds and i think saving with custom chars should be added again


I believe the gametype's still around, it's just Christmas Hunt Zone that was removed. Making an Emerald hunt map's really as simple as adding the Emerald Hunt thing types onto a Single Player map, and voila it's now Emerald Hunt!
yes it exists but sometimes there are only 2 emeralds

Nobody liked it, so pretty much everything for it was taken out ...well, except for Homing Thok, which exists as an available character ability. And the Analog camera's still available as an option for use in SP (doesn't work in multiplayer), if you want to play GFZ or ERZ with that for some reason.
you never had to play in adventure mode if you didn't like to, i wouldn't see a reason for removing that

SRB2CB doesn't even add that many new colors. SRB2 Riders/SRB2 Kart on the other hand have even more colors.


Probably, but it's best SRB2JTE stays just for 1.09.4. =P

JTE was the ultimate mod for srb2 with special holiday settings and more, not every character had super form and you need to get the emeralds first. You never were forced to play adventure mode. Why should a extra option be removed ? and i don't like that you can't save with custom characters

 

[Rob]

Because "extra features" that add nothing to the game actually dilute and detract from the quality of the game itself. This is called "Feature creep" and we're trying very hard to avoid that. That, and Adventure mode actually sucked. A lot.

Saving with custom characters would break the game in half. Never ever will that be a feature.

 

[Larz T]

I'm just curious, why was the black emerald removed?

 

[Prime 2.0]

I'm just curious, why was the black emerald removed?

The black emerald, and hypersonic, was a joke. The joke lost its humor with time, and it was removed.

 

[r543]

Because "extra features" that add nothing to the game actually dilute and detract from the quality of the game itself. This is called "Feature creep" and we're trying very hard to avoid that. That, and Adventure mode actually sucked. A lot.

Saving with custom characters would break the game in half. Never ever will that be a feature.

it would add a custom character support, and i hate it when games get "downgraded" because someone thinks that they dont' need that anymore. And srb2 is made to be a fun game, a lot of people stopped playing it and there are no new wads or anything, it's a good reason why we should add custom characters with saving again

 

[Steelie]

it would add a custom character support, and i hate it when games get "downgraded" because someone thinks that they dont' need that anymore. And srb2 is made to be a fun game, a lot of people stopped playing it and there are no new wads or anything, it's a good reason why we should add custom characters with saving again

No, people stopped playing because it is stuck on one version for almost 4 years already. Maybe they will come back after 2.1 wll come out. If it will ever come out.

 

[Scizor300]

Saving with custom characters would break the game in half. Never ever will that be a feature.

Speaking of, have you guys gone ahead and un-gimped the character system yet? You removed some abilities such as Glide without Climb for no real reason other than "We wanted to."

 

[Rob]

Lua and SOCs basically allow you to do everything you could possibly want.

I doubt there are going to be new default abilities added, however. Don't quote me on that though.

 

[Mystic]

Monster Iestyn basically nailed it, but I'm just going to provide a little clarification on two of them.

Silver Ring box
why was this removed ?

Well, it turns out that the Silver Ring was a simple leftover from the original work to convert Doom into a Sonic game. Health pickups in Doom were converted to rings, and the health pickups in Doom were +1, +10, and +25 health. Obviously, classic Sonic doesn't have a 25 ring box and you can replicate a lot of rings in a single area by just using multiple 10 ring boxes, so it was removed at my request.

Interestingly, I think you're the first person to even mention that removal, never mind object to it, as it was probably the easiest thing I ever convinced AJ to do. Most changes I have to argue for, but that one was just a "sure thing". The only gameplay use of the Silver Ring was the ease of getting large quantities of rings in match, which I altered the level design somewhat to solve.

character color black
this makes it impossible to do a shadow that can change to super

The problem with the black character color is that it was abusive in match in darker stages, particularly Starlit Warehouse from 1.X. Essentially, in stages with a dark motif you could switch to black and make it very hard to see you. It didn't take very long after people realized this for everyone to switch to black because any other color was a significant handicap. While Starlit Warehouse is no longer in the game, we still have darker stages and you would be able to get a similar benefit in the outside areas in Thunder Citadel and Desolate Twilight if you could still change to black.

While yes, it's possible to get benefit out of using colors similar to the stage, such as red in Infernal Cavern, you don't get nearly the same boost out of it compared to using black on dark stages because of the way the software renderer deals with darkness, fading to black in the distance. I'd rather not force all of our stages to be full bright in match, so the black character color had to go for that reason.

 

[Puppyfaic]

If that's the case, couldn't it be as simple as just not allowing players to be black in Match/Tag/HnS gametypes, yet still keeping the color in for all the other modes? You did this with Yellow, so it was easy to tell apart who was super and who wasn't.

 

[r543]

If that's the case, couldn't it be as simple as just not allowing players to be black in Match/Tag/HnS gametypes, yet still keeping the color in for all the other modes? You did this with Yellow, so it was easy to tell apart who was super and who wasn't.

yes, it should be on for singleplayer and the server owners should be able to turn it off/on

 

[SSNTails]

You can only have a maximum of 16 color choices. This is a limitation with how the color change code was designed.

Now, an unused and possibly unknown feature (that has existed for quite a long time!), is the ability to make per-skin colormaps -- green doesn't have to be the changeable color. In fact, you can swap the entire palette around using this method. Eggman uses this when he is hit to flash.

So one 'color' could be a palette remap to a scheme (say, blue pants, red shirt), while another 'color' is something like green pants, orange shirt.

I'm not sure this capability has ever been documented...???

 

[Monster Iestyn]

Now, an unused and possibly unknown feature (that has existed for quite a long time!), is the ability to make per-skin colormaps -- green doesn't have to be the changeable color. In fact, you can swap the entire palette around using this method. Eggman uses this when he is hit to flash.

So one 'color' could be a palette remap to a scheme (say, blue pants, red shirt), while another 'color' is something like green pants, orange shirt.

I'm not sure this capability has ever been documented...???

As far as I can tell it was never stated that green had to be the changable color with character skins - after all, a couple of characters such as Espio and (my) Mighty have used blue instead of green as the changable color range, for instance.

 

[WellDoneSnake]

Spoiler

Monster Iestyn basically nailed it, but I'm just going to provide a little clarification on two of them.


Well, it turns out that the Silver Ring was a simple leftover from the original work to convert Doom into a Sonic game. Health pickups in Doom were converted to rings, and the health pickups in Doom were +1, +10, and +25 health. Obviously, classic Sonic doesn't have a 25 ring box and you can replicate a lot of rings in a single area by just using multiple 10 ring boxes, so it was removed at my request.

Interestingly, I think you're the first person to even mention that removal, never mind object to it, as it was probably the easiest thing I ever convinced AJ to do. Most changes I have to argue for, but that one was just a "sure thing". The only gameplay use of the Silver Ring was the ease of getting large quantities of rings in match, which I altered the level design somewhat to solve.

I wished that the sliver ring box would be kept because it would have been great with the mods that apply to modern sonic. Now we have to source edit the objects that we want. Furthermore if you did not want the silver ringbox to ruin the classic gameplay, themaybe it should not be included in the SP or other gameplays but keep it as a optional thing.

 

[Monster Iestyn]

It's not exactly hard to recreate the silver ring box with SOC anyway. You can pretty much just copy everything for the existing Super Ring Box, change a few things, make it use custom sprites, and you're pretty much done.

 

[WellDoneSnake]

It's not exactly hard to recreate the silver ring box with SOC anyway. You can pretty much just copy everything for the existing Super Ring Box, change a few things, make it use custom sprites, and you're pretty much done.

I have tried that but I wasn't sure if I got the right variables(the right amount of rings).
But thanks I'll try again.
A little off topic but related to Monster Iestyn previous post of colours: Why is it that whenever I try to make NPCs (by soccing) some do not change colour (characters like silver, espio and mighty), they stay blue. The only time they change colour is when they are used as custom characters.

 

[Monster Iestyn]

A little off topic but related to Monster Iestyn previous post of colours: Why is it that whenever I try to make NPCs (by soccing) some do not change colour (characters like silver, espio and mighty), they stay blue. The only time they change colour is when they are used as custom characters.

Yeah, you can only use changable colors other than green for character skins, because an equivalent of S_SKIN's "startcolor" doesn't exist for anything else that changes color, so the default changable color is stuck as green for them.

 

[WellDoneSnake]

Yeah, you can only use changable colors other than green for character skins, because an equivalent of S_SKIN's "startcolor" doesn't exist for anything else that changes color, so the default changable color is stuck as green for them.

So should I recolour them as green (like the srb2palatte)