Recreating Bosses

[Zion Crayson]

I wonder...is it possible to recreate bosses from previous Sonic games? I wanted to create a level called "The Final Battles," and I wanted to put in the bosses from Sonic 1 (Both MS and MD), 2MS, 2MD, and 3/K. I know it's a lot, but I wanted to make it a challenge.

Notes: MS = Master System/Game Gear
MD = Mega Drive/Genesis

 

[Joat]

A great many are not possible, but some are. For example, metal sonic (S&K, or final stage of MD2) seems quite plausible to me, as might the first boss and the first miniboss of MD3.

But even those that can be duplicated will take a lot of work, and oft you may not be able to make a perfect replica.

 

[Zion Crayson]

I'd be a long project, but if it can be done, then it'd probably be worth it. So, what enemies can be created? Here's a list of what bosses I'm wanting to recreate:
Sonic 1:
Green Hill (Mega Drive) [Possibly Mecha Sonic Version]
Marble
Bridge
Spring Yard
Jungle
Labyrinth (Master System)
Star Light
Scrap Brain/Final (Mega Drive)
Sky Base

Sonic 2 (Master System):
Underground
Sky High
Aqua Lake
Green Hills
Gimmick Mountain
Scrambled Egg
Crystal Egg
(Haven't played this one, so I don't know what the bosses are.)

Sonic 2 (Mega Drive):
Emerald Hill
Chemical Plant
Aquitic Ruin
Casino Night
Hill Top
Mystic Cave
Oil Ocean (Egg Sand Sub could be used.)
Metropolis (Possibly Mecha Sonic Version)
Wing Fortress
Death Egg
(Skipping Sky Chase because it has no boss. Also, the hacked roms that feature the lost levels have copied bosses, so I'm skipping those.)

Sonic the Hedgehog CD:
Palmtree Panic (Possibly already started)
Collision Chaos
Tidal Tempest
Quartz Quadrant
Wacky Workbench
Stardust Speedway
Metallic Madness
(Just realized this came before Chaos, so I'm adding it.)

Sonic Chaos/Sonic & Tails:
Turquoise Hill
Gigopolis
Sleeping Egg
Mecha Green Hill
Aqua Planet
Electic Egg
(Just thought about it. It came out before Sonic 3, so I think I should add the bosses here, too.)

Sonic 3:
Angel Island
Hydrocity
Marble Garden
Carnival Night
Ice Cap
Launch Base
Mushroom Hill
Flying Battery
Sandopolis
Lava Reef
Sky Sanctuary
Death Egg
(I'll probably do the mini-bosses, too, since most of the zones are connected. Might not do Doomsday, though, until I can figure out how to get an Instant Super Sonic and constant-flight thing going. I'm also skipping Hidden Palace, since the Knuckles battle wasn't technically a boss.)

So, out of all of these bosses, which ones are possible? I might need to seperate these into different acts, but if it's all possible, then I'll start on the levels as soon as possible!

EDIT: Listed all the levels for more clarification.

 

[Joat]

It depends on how much you are willing to compromise. With the possible exception of metal sonic, and maybe a couple others, perfect copies in SRB2 will be impossible. However, you might be able to do these bosses if you are willing to settle for the closest you can get it.

 

[Zion Crayson]

As long as they function in a similar way to the originals, I'll be happy. I'm not sure how the MS Labyrinth or Metro bosses will work out, though...I'm also thinking of putting it in 2D mode to make it as close as the originals as possible. That'll also probably make this the first set of 2D bosses in SRB2. I also just added Sonic CD, since that was in the list, anyways...anyways, I've got a couple people on the project, which might be starting today, but I still need a good SOCcer to get thigs going.

 

[miles the togepi]

I Might...... be able to do some sprites....but just maybe i dunno.......
im not good with shapes.....

 

[Zion Crayson]

As long as they look and act like the original bosses, then we'll have a great mod on our hands. So, which of the bosses from my list are possible?

 

[Fawfulfan]

A great many are not possible, but some are. For example, metal sonic (S&K, or final stage of MD2) seems quite plausible to me, as might the first boss and the first miniboss of MD3.

You mean Mecha Sonic? Yeah, you're right...that's actually already been done for SRB2. I think the level was called "Final Metal Zone".

 

[Joat]

Again, it depends on how far you are willing to bend.

A perfect, or near-perfect replica of most of the bosses you may find to be impossible. However, you might be able to come up with halfway-close replicas for some bosses. So what bosses are possible depends on what you consider to be close enough.

For example, a perfect replica of Genesis Sonic 1’s first stage boss would be quite impossible, but maybe you could instead to a ball that flies around Eggman in a circle like the spikeballs do, except that there is only one and it is bigger, and probably slower.

 

[Shrike]

an edited N00b hogs script and metalsonic sprites
could work for the metalsonic boss.

 

[Zion Crayson]

Again, it depends on how far you are willing to bend.

A perfect, or near-perfect replica of most of the bosses you may find to be impossible. However, you might be able to come up with halfway-close replicas for some bosses. So what bosses are possible depends on what you consider to be close enough.

For example, a perfect replica of Genesis Sonic 1’s first stage boss would be quite impossible, but maybe you could instead to a ball that flies around Eggman in a circle like the spikeballs do, except that there is only one and it is bigger, and probably slower.

Well, if someone could tell me which bosses can be recreated to what extent, that'd be better than telling me that the project's next to impossible. Just tell me which bosses need what kind of modifications, and that'd be great.

(And what makes you know so much, anyways?)

 

[A-star]

He's wrong. An Edited N00b hogs script wouldn't do a thing.

I'm a SOCcer myself, but how about one game at a time, that many Bosses can overwhelm anyone. (in other words, THERE ARE TOO MANY)

 

[Zion Crayson]

One game at a time...very well. Let's start with the beginning of it all:
Sonic 1 Bosses:
Green Hill (Mega Drive):
The old swinging ball and chain bit. This was re-done with Mecha Sonic in Sonic & Knuckles in Sonic's Sky Sanctuary.

Marble:
Robotnik/Eggman simply goes from side to side spewing fire/lava on the floor.

Bridge:
Robotnik pops up from side to side shooting at Sonic.

Spring Yard:
This one might be a challenge. Robotnik goes from side to side targeting Sonic and destroying the block he's currently on. It might be possible to cap a time limit on this part, but that might be it.

Jungle:
Robotnik drops rolling bombs in this one. Might be able to be recreated, but not exactly correct.

Labyrinth (Master System):
I chose the Master System version as the Mega Drive version just has a chase. This one's similar to the Bridge, except there's only one space on the bottom, as well as two spaces up top to shoot torpedoes. We might be able to mimic the infinite air bit like in the game, but if not, there's always the bubbles.

Star Light:
Robotnik goes from side to side dropping mines on seesaws. I don't know how that'll be done, though...

Scrap Brain/Final (Mega Drive):
Ahh, yes...the Mega-Crushers and Zappy Orbs...I have NO idea if this can be done...

Sky Base:
The final battle of the Master System version of Sonic 1 consists of more Zappy Orbs along with what seems like flamethowers. I'm not sure what to do with this one either.

(So, that's all the bosses of the first game. Which ones can be recreated, and to what extent?)

 

[Joat]

Again, it depends on how far you are willing to bend.

A perfect, or near-perfect replica of most of the bosses you may find to be impossible. However, you might be able to come up with halfway-close replicas for some bosses. So what bosses are possible depends on what you consider to be close enough.

For example, a perfect replica of Genesis Sonic 1’s first stage boss would be quite impossible, but maybe you could instead to a ball that flies around Eggman in a circle like the spikeballs do, except that there is only one and it is bigger, and probably slower.

Well, if someone could tell me which bosses can be recreated to what extent, that'd be better than telling me that the project's next to impossible. Just tell me which bosses need what kind of modifications, and that'd be great.

(And what makes you know so much, anyways?)

Are you sure you want me to do that? Part of the work of SOCcing is finding out what for yourself what is and is not possible. Want to know what you can do with SOCcing? Look at the Actions page in the wiki. From there, make a plan of what actions the bosses will have.

Also, I just thought of something. Aren’t there a finite amount of extra states a person can have in their mods. Mind, that’s a lot of states, but you may eventually run out.

 

[A-star]

(I = Impossible P = Possible S = Semi-Possible U = Unknown)

Green Hill: (S)
As said before, limited to the ball and chain peices spinning around Eggman.

Marble: (P)
If you mean he just spew fire, then yeah, this is very possible

Bridge: (P)

He'll spawn objects at each point, then set target to them and become invincible and Invisible as he goes to them, when he gets there, he targets Sonic and shoots

Spring Yard: (P)

This one will require some Map editing and SOC editing

He'll fire at Sonic and the missile will have a state where they trigger a linedef that destroys the Block Sonic is on

Jungle: (P)

Drops Missiles that when they hit the ground, start rolling

Labyrinth: (U)

I didn't understand what you were talking about, never I never had the time to beat this game (or get the Master System version)

Scrap Brain: (P)

One of the only ones I know. Another Level with Map and SOC combo.

A hidden object will spawn electric balls at certain places that will chase Sonic.

Then Eggman comes and randomly picks a spot to find a target, chases it and on cantact activates the crushers, going up with it.

Sky Base: (U)

Not sure, you're being vague again,

 

[Zion Crayson]

Green Hill: (S)
As said before, limited to the ball and chain peices spinning around Eggman.

So I'm thinking that classic swinging from side to side is out of the question. Meh. I guess we'll have to make do. He still needs to go back and forth, though.

Marble: (P)
If you mean he just spew fire, then yeah, this is very possible

Well, that's good to know. Maybe he'll have abilities similar to a Bomber, except going back and forth and the fire spreads to the ledges and disappears after time.

Bridge: (P)

He'll spawn objects at each point, then set target to them and become invincible and Invisible as he goes to them, when he gets there, he targets Sonic and shoots

That might work...the two popup points might need to be connected, but that's another problem.

Spring Yard: (P)

This one will require some Map editing and SOC editing

He'll fire at Sonic and the missile will have a state where they trigger a linedef that destroys the Block Sonic is on

He had a spike in the original, but that could work, too.

Jungle: (P)

Drops Missiles that when they hit the ground, start rolling

That'll work. After some time, if they don't hit Sonic, they explode automatically.

Labyrinth: (U)

I didn't understand what you were talking about, never I never had the time to beat this game (or get the Master System version)

Basically, Robotnik pops out from one of the three points in the area. If it's from the bottom, he shoots two pellet-like things, like in Bridge Zone. If he comes in from one of the two tope ones, then he fires a torpedo that moves slowly, but also homes in on Sonic's current location.

Scrap Brain: (P)

One of the only ones I know. Another Level with Map and SOC combo.

A hidden object will spawn electric balls at certain places that will chase Sonic.

Then Eggman comes and randomly picks a spot to find a target, chases it and on cantact activates the crushers, going up with it.

That'll work. We also need a second crusher to randomly come on as a decoy, so it'll be more like that battle. There's four crushers in all, by the way.

Sky Base: (U)

Not sure, you're being vague again,

Yeah...I don't know much about that one, either. All I know is that the flamethowers activate randomly one at a time, and the orb is also random. The orb could use the same SOC as the Scrap Brain one, but that might be all...there's also a glass area that's the Damage Zone.

(I'm thinking of doing all this in 2D-mode, by the way. Also, I know I can't really explain things that much, but this should help with how the bosses act. He's also got a Game Gear Sonic 2 runthrough, which is what I'm going to do next.)

 

[A-star]

Green Hill: (S)
As said before, limited to the ball and chain peices spinning around Eggman.

So I'm thinking that classic swinging from side to side is out of the question. Meh. I guess we'll have to make do. He still needs to go back and forth, though.

A_MOVERELATIVE

Marble: (P)
If you mean he just spew fire, then yeah, this is very possible

Well, that's good to know. Maybe he'll have abilities similar to a Bomber, except going back and forth and the fire spreads to the ledges and disappears after time.

With Special Things on the edges, this is possible

Bridge: (P)

He'll spawn objects at each point, then set target to them and become invincible and Invisible as he goes to them, when he gets there, he targets Sonic and shoots

That might work...the two popup points might need to be connected, but that's another problem.

What do you mean "connected" that he travels from one to anther, not teleporting? Then you can slowdown the Chasing Process and make him visible

Spring Yard: (P)

This one will require some Map editing and SOC editing

He'll fire at Sonic and the missile will have a state where they trigger a linedef that destroys the Block Sonic is on

He had a spike in the original, but that could work, too.

Your way works too.

Jungle: (P)

Drops Missiles that when they hit the ground, start rolling

That'll work. After some time, if they don't hit Sonic, they explode automatically.

Possible.

Labyrinth: (U)

I didn't understand what you were talking about, never I never had the time to beat this game (or get the Master System version)

Basically, Robotnik pops out from one of the three points in the area. If it's from the bottom, he shoots two pellet-like things, like in Bridge Zone. If he comes in from one of the two tope ones, then he fires a torpedo that moves slowly, but also homes in on Sonic's current location.

Still confused.

Scrap Brain: (P)

One of the only ones I know. Another Level with Map and SOC combo.

A hidden object will spawn electric balls at certain places that will chase Sonic.

Then Eggman comes and randomly picks a spot to find a target, chases it and on cantact activates the crushers, going up with it.

That'll work. We also need a second crusher to randomly come on as a decoy, so it'll be more like that battle. There's four crushers in all, by the way.

I knew that. I was saying he activates all 4 crushers, but attaches himself on one of them.

Sky Base: (U)

Not sure, you're being vague again,

Yeah...I don't know much about that one, either. All I know is that the flamethowers activate randomly one at a time, and the orb is also random. The orb could use the same SOC as the Scrap Brain one, but that might be all...there's also a glass area that's the Damage Zone.

Still Confused.

(I'm thinking of doing all this in 2D-mode, by the way. Also, I know I can't really explain things that much, but this should help with how the bosses act.)

I'm not sure whether to SOC this or not, I have some other Plans. Find soemway to convince me, and I'll try to SOC this.

 

[Zion Crayson]

Green Hill

A_MOVERELATIVE

That might actually work. I'm not sure what command does, but it might make things better.

Marble:

With Special Things on the edges, this is possible

Cool. That's two bosses down, then.

Bridge:

What do you mean "connected" that he travels from one to anther, not teleporting? Then you can slowdown the Chasing Process and make him visible

I didn't think using teleporters on Robotnik was possible...if it is, then that saves a lot of work.

Spring Yard

Your way works too.

Good. That just leaves the problem with him lowering to Sonic position, grabbing the block with the spike, and destroying it. That's how the game does it.

Jungle:

Possible

Good. That one's in the bag already, then.

Labyrinth

Still confused.

Watch the videos. I can't explain it any better than I just did.

Scrap Brain:

I knew that. I was saying he activates all 4 crushers, but attaches himself on one of them.

In the game, only two crushers activate at random, but I'm guessing it's still pretty much the same deal.

Sky Base:

Still Confused.

Again, can't explain it, so watch the runthough.

I'm not sure whether to SOC this or not, I have some other Plans. Find soemway to convince me, and I'll try to SOC this.

Well, I'm not too sure on what to do for convincing besides credit, but I WILL say that if my project gets completed, it may become one of the best sets of levels out there! All those that sought a boss rush of past Sonic games will finally get what they want! Admittedly it won't be perfect, but it'll still be close enough to warrant something good. If all goes according to plan, The Final Battles might become one of, if not THE best mod for SRB2 to date, if not of all time!

(You also didn't answer me about Star Light's boss. If you're lost about that, then consult the videos.)

 

[Monster Iestyn]

Urmm... Scrap Brain didn't have a boss. That's Final Zone's boss you're on about.

 

[Zion Crayson]

Well, technically the Final Zone is still connected to Scrap Brain. They just named it such to dictate the final battle of the game. I still say Sky Base is still technically the final zone of Sonic 1, even if it IS only on the MS version.