How many emblems can Sonic get?

[Kaysakado]

So.
I'm trying to get as many emblems as possible without the use of Tails or Knuckles. Right now I'm mostly concerned with the overworld emblems because for me they're the more interesting challenge. There are a couple left that I'm pretty much stumped on so I'd like to open the floor to discussion on getting those; also if there any suggestions on alternative ways to get some of the ones I already have. This list includes emblems that I'm missing in bold and any other emblems that don't have entirely trivial solutions as Sonic.

Link to emblem guide for your convenience

GFZ1 4/5

• Purple: There are a number of ways to get this one, I like to crawla bounce over from the area with the attraction shield. Having the whirlwind helps too.
• Orange: likely impossible
  The main issue here is the tunnel leading into the cave. You'd have to carry potential energy over from outside to the cave without bumping your head.
  So you'd want two things: To be moving as fast as possible horizontally (start as far from you can from the cave), and to be moving as slow as possible vertically (start your jump as low as you can).
  As it turns out this cliff is approx. the same height as the emblem so we're not going to be able to get much lower, and it's about as far from the cave as you can get:
  http://i.imgur.com/k6RQJUa.gifv
  Though it's not a perfect bounce, looking at the GIF frame by frame shows that Sonic's still significantly far from clearing that ceiling. Not to mention the difficulty of lining that crawla up in a good spot without using objectplace. I wonder though, if the use of a whirlwind shield could let us start a little lower, and if that would even make much difference.

GFZ2 5/5

• Red: Super Sonic can get up there very easily, but regular Sonic doesn't have too much trouble with a whirlwind either.
• Green: http://i.imgur.com/WrXlp8F.gifv
  It's not necessary to go all the way back around. If you bounce the monitor from the top of the waterfall (just using the spring to get up there) you'll still have enough height. But I have way more practice making the bounce from the cliff so I elected to do that.

THZ1 4/5

• Blue: Get up there with a turtle, easy enough
• Purple: definitely stumped here. I think Super Sonic can get up to Knuckles' path from the exit with a whirlwind jump and luring a buzz over for extra height. But then I'm stuck on actually getting to the emblem.
• Red: http://i.imgur.com/d9silK9.gifv
• Green: Get as high as possible and do a whirlwind jump.

THZ2 5/5

• Red: http://i.imgur.com/whZ267y.gifv

DSZ1 3/5

• Blue: AFAIK impossible, the entrance to this area is blocked by Knux blocks.
• Green: Same, blocked off by Knux blocks.

DSZ2 2/5

• Blue: Once Sonic's up there it shouldn't be too hard to get upstream. Especially easy with Super Sonic. Getting up there, of course, is the problem. I was trying to do a jump through the end of the waterslide, abusing the water physics+current to get a boost, but I haven't been able to get anything even close to the height necessary. Any ideas?
  [*]Purple: Knux blocks, both at the entrance and exit to this area.
  [*]Red: Knux blocks.
• Orange: Super Sonic with a whirlwind can just BARELY make this jump. And to think I was trying to do some crazy shit bouncing off the skim in the next room.

CEZ1 5/5

• Blue: http://i.imgur.com/jypUUTr.gifv
  The trick here is to worry not about when you jump, but rather where you land. EDIT: I'm dumb, you can just walk to get this.
• Red <!>: http://i.imgur.com/NfElB8U.gifv
  This one's a little wild. Notes:
  -It may not be necessary to position that robo-hood, but I found it so much easier when he was. Also, he's not usually this uncooperative.
  -The ceiling in the first room is lower than the walls around the gate, so to get up there you need to ditch Super Sonic and use the whirlwind. You can let go of SS flight any time after the ring counter says 6.
  -Then you wait for the Facestabbers to come closer. You need to bounce off two enemies, not for horizontal motion, but to get enough vertical height. One won't cut it.
• Orange: A number of ways to jump up here. Super Sonic, Whirlwind, big jump from the chain swing? You name it.
• Green: http://i.imgur.com/56jE9sM.gifv
  This is an annoying set up. You have to go down there to break the Egg Guard shield so you have something to bounce on, but then there's no way to backtrack. So you have to do a bunch of other crap, and then a frustratingly difficult bounce. Whirlwind shield not necessary, but it makes me feel safer while setting up that robo hood. EDIT: Red found a nice way to do this.

CEZ2 3/5

• Purple: So the entrance to this room is blocked with a Knux block. But if we could somehow get Sonic all the way to the top of the opening room we're good. I doubt it though.
• Red: Knux blocks. I wonder if there's a way to get that FOF at the end to crumble from below, though. Sometimes they can be glitchy like that.

• Green: Just bounce off the ring monitor.

ACZ1 5/5

• Orange: http://i.imgur.com/SeCV7sG.gifv
  Is the whirlwind jump at the end truly necessary? Who knows. But I'm not going to risk all my momentum trying to step up when I already have that shield anyways. Always go for the ring monitor first, it has some weird collision and you can get stuck inside it if you're jumping from too high up.

RVZ1 3/5

• Blue: Stumped on this one.
• Purple: So I have an idea here... the three Unidus in the next room can move freely if you lure them all the way to the crumbling platform, and then crumble it (Be aware that this is the only one that doesn't respawn, so don't trigger it too soon). After that, they could be brought over to one of the lava falls and used to get extra height by abusing water physics? It's a stretch.

ERZ1 5/5

• Purple: http://i.imgur.com/gaUejzq.gifv
  So Super Sonic alone isn't enough height to get this, so you have to get the whirlwind shield. The hard part is the backtracking.
• Red: Super Sonic can fly to this one.

ERZ2 5/5

• Red: https://gfycat.com/ObeseSmugAndeancockoftherock BOOM got it. If you want to skip to the good part it's at 4:00 in the video (right-click and hit show controls)
• Green: Sonic can easily get this but there's no way for him to get out lol

Pipe Towers 4/5

• Blue: Easy to get this a number of ways. Whirlwind is probably the simplest but you can actually spin and jump from the brick right next to the pipe to get up there.
• Purple: I took a whirlwind to this room and completed the puzzle normally. Then, from the top jump and bounce off the goomba, and then use the whirlwind to get the last bit of height you need. IIRC you might have actually had to bounce off BOTH goombas but I'm not sure.
• Red: Probably impossible. The small hole you have to go through to get to this room means I can't think of any way to bring vertical momentum in here.
  

Aerial Garden 4/5

• Purple: Sonic with a whirlwind shield can start the Tails/Knux route. You have to lure an enemy into the room (which is probably the hardest part). Then use the whirlwind to stand on top of the ring monitor. Bouncing off both the enemy and the monitor, then using the whirlwind should be enough to get up there. From there Sonic can get all the way to the tower... at which point he gets stuck just before the first spring. I can't think of any way for him to get in from the waterfall side.

Azure Temple 3/5

• Blue: http://i.imgur.com/WHbOtR7.gifv
  R.I.P. Blue Emblem
• Purple: Can't think of anything here.

And apologies for the console in most of these, they were taken before I knew F9 triggered startmovie.

 

[Zubat]

This is hilarious and ridiculous and actually one of the best threads I've seen in a long time. I feel these kinds of challenges could lead to the kind of complicated solutions that the half A press shit that went around some time ago came up with. The crawla is the new scuttlebug.

I can't offer you help on anything here. But you did a damn good job of doing so much work yourself, and you're certainly being a lot more creative and skilled at emblem hunting than I ever have. I'm sure with plenty of patience (and failed attempts) that orange GFZ1 emblem can be obtained.

Godspeed.

 

[Goldenhog]

Those are some insane stunts, hot damn. I always thought most of those were just impossible to get as Sonic but apparently not.

Anyway, you should mark the CEZ2 Purple emblem as unobtainable as Sonic as there's nothing to bounce on in the starting area to be able to get that high.

 

[Mystic]

Yeah, this thread is absolute gold. Reminds me of just how overpowered super really is. A few miscellaneous comments:

• GFZ2 Green is hysterical. I never in a million years would have thought that was possible.
• THZ2 Red is similarly absurd. That emblem's original design from 1.X required Tails and unlike many of those I thought it REALLY required him =P
• For DSZ2 Blue I don't think there's any method of getting even close, unless the water slide ramp is even more bugged than we thought.
• You are WAY overthinking CEZ1 Blue. You can just run on the ground as normal Sonic and as long as you don't touch a wall and lose your momentum, you'll make it.
• You are absolutely out of your mind on CEZ1 Red. Using the whirlwind shield thanks to running out of super? Good god.
• I'm pretty sure in ERZ1 Purple you can make the backtracking way easier by just going between the obstruction and the wall, unless we've fixed that. Normally you'd get hit by the laser and fall, but super prevents that.
• For ERZ2 Red, I dunno if this breaks the spirit using him indirectly, but it may be possible to trigger the elevator with Tails while Sonic is standing on the top. You are correct that the doors don't open unless you've triggered the elevator, though.
• As I said in IRC, that ATZ GIF is absolutely beyond hilarious. I never imagined that was remotely possible.

 

[fickleheart]

Here's a solution for CEZ1 green that doesn't need any backtracking, and instead uses Super Sonic. (Sorry about the camera; normal chasecam settings are too loose to make that jump accurately, and if I'd used first-person it'd be even more difficult to tell what I'm doing. Also don't mind Tails; my all emeralds save is S+T instead of just Sonic)

The text version:

• Get the rings for super with the emerald token below the downward stairs on the right path
• Fly out to get the Egg Guard to notice you and move closer to the edge of the platform (may not be necessary if your jump is good enough)
• Get a jump just right so you bounce off of the guard without a thok
• Use the thok shortly after getting bounced back to correct your horizontal momentum so that you stay in the area of the emblem and can float your way to it

I tried figuring out ERZ2 red, but unfortunately, bouncing from the second light fixture off of the ring monitor and using your whirlwind shield at the peak of your jump still just barely doesn't reach the third fixture. (It'd be solved if you could, since you can just whirlwind the rest of the way up from there)

 

[Zwip-Zwap Zapony]

Dear developers, I think you might have to work much harder on 2.2. Kaysakado has clearly gone insane waiting for it. Just kidding, I'm aware you're already working as hard as you can.

Besides that, while I'm also impressed by Kaysakado's abilities... Why not just use Tails or Knuckles? And for future emblem collects, perhaps just have a link to GfyCat versions (like Red (as in RedEnchilada, not an emblem) did), so we're not bound to loading all uncompressed Gifs at once, but instead can load compressed audio-less videos on demand if we feel like it?

 

[Kaysakado]

You are WAY overthinking CEZ1 Blue. You can just run on the ground as normal Sonic and as long as you don't touch a wall and lose your momentum, you'll make it.

Oh shit, you're absolutely right. Lol. I always thought the intended strat was to climb the walls with Knuckles.

I'm pretty sure in ERZ1 Purple you can make the backtracking way easier by just going between the obstruction and the wall, unless we've fixed that. Normally you'd get hit by the laser and fall, but super prevents that.

This however doesn't work.

Here's a solution for CEZ1 green that doesn't need any backtracking, and instead uses Super Sonic.

Oh man that's awesome. Probably the most ridiculous jump in this thread. For being one of the worse maps in the vanilla campaign CEZ1 has some fun emblems.

I tried figuring out ERZ2 red, but unfortunately, bouncing from the second light fixture off of the ring monitor and using your whirlwind shield at the peak of your jump still just barely doesn't reach the third fixture. (It'd be solved if you could, since you can just whirlwind the rest of the way up from there)

Yeah I got stuck there as well. It's so close.

Why not just use Tails or Knuckles?

whoa buddy, let's not do anything too rash

 

[fickleheart]

I tried to crack the purple emblem in ATZ with some gargoyle launching and stacking.

Spoiler

I give up. I nearly had this stack four high at one point and then THOSE TWO FUCKERS stuck themselves together. One of them crushed me while I was trying everything to get them unstuck.

Fun fact: Kays just tested it with objectplace and proved that a stack of 18 gargoyles (the exact number contained in this room) is just enough to reach the emblem with a whirlwind shield. Gargoyles also have exactly the right properties so that you can theoretically launch them off of themselves with incredible precision. So in theory, it is possible to use this method to reach this emblem as Sonic. Now, will anyone do it? Probably not in a million years.

 

[Kaysakado]

How do you launch gargoyles? Seems to happen to me whenever I push them onto a button, not sure how to do it on purpose.

 

[Rumia1]

Maybe that's a sign that you guys should fix the gargoyles *shot*

But really, I can't imagine how much time it takes to descover these routes and seeing how much effort people put into finding these solutions just boggles my mind.

 

[Kaysakado]

Alright, I think I have a strat for ERZ2 red, but it's a little insane.

• Go through the left path, collect as many rings as possible
• Turn super right before the whirlwind shield, collect whirlwind
• Go back through the right path
• Once you've gotten to the jetty-syn shaft, you gotta get one or both to follow you
• You've gotta ditch it shortly before the space countdown and then get it back on your tail when you come back through that room
• You have to be very careful with it in the turret room
• Here's the only step that I haven't actually managed to do: you have to get it through the zoom tube with you. Super Sonic can clip through the zoom tube trigger with a fully charged spindash. After I did that, the jetty-syn was trying to follow me through the tube but wouldn't get low enough. Jetty-syns tend to level out their flight pattern slightly above you. I think before clipping into the tube, you need to get the jetty-syn to start bobbing so it'll actually get low enough to come in. EDIT: This is actually impossible, even if the jetty-syn managed to make it in, neither you nor the jetty-syn can get out the other side because of an invisible wall.
• Once you've gotten the jetty-syn to the elevator shaft, you'll be able to jump on the first light fixture like normal.
• Bouncing on the jetty-syn and the ring monitor isn't enough to get you to the second light fixture, so you'll have to lose Super and do a whirlwind jump off that.
• THEN, if you bounce on the ring monitor and the jetty-syn, and use a whirlwind, you should get to the third fixture.
• From there it's just a few double jumps and you're up.

Everything's theoretically possible, but bringing the jetty-syn all that way without it getting killed will take a ridiculous amount of luck+patience. Not to mention that you have to go entirely through ERZ2 once to get the whirlwind before you can even start the actual trick.

This might be one for the TAS, lol.

 

[Ors]

Insane solutions! Especially the ones in CEZ1! I wish this thread was made before finding almost everything xD

[*]Here's the only step that I haven't actually managed to do: you have to get it through the zoom tube with you. Super Sonic can clip through the zoom tube trigger with a fully charged spindash. After I did that, the jetty-syn was trying to follow me through the tube but wouldn't get low enough. Jetty-syns tend to level out their flight pattern slightly above you. I think before clipping into the tube, you need to get the jetty-syn to start bobbing so it'll actually get low enough to come in.

This is the only problem in the plan, I think. There's an invisible wall at the end of the zoom tube.

 

[Kaysakado]

Insane solutions! Especially the ones in CEZ1! I wish this thread was made before finding almost everything xD


This is the only problem in the plan, I think. There's an invisible wall at the end of the zoom tube.

Yep, you're right. Scratch that. We just need one more thing to bounce on.

 

[frozenLake]

Has there ever been serious TASing for SRB2?

I mean, the only person I have seen doing it is RedEnchilada, and well, those are suboptimal according to him.



Also maybe another concept would be trying to get emblems with under powered character wads. How many emblems can be gotten with Robo-Hood? :V

 

[Monster Iestyn]

Also maybe another concept would be trying to get emblems with under powered character wads. How many emblems can be gotten with Robo-Hood? :V

It takes some skill to beat the levels themselves, let alone get the emblems lol.

(I don't think ERZ1 is currently clearable as Robo-Hood as of 2.1, I could be wrong of course)

 

[Kaysakado]

Some concepts for RVZ's purple:
http://imgur.com/a/kg9oc
https://gfycat.com/AridHelplessCow

The first GIF is a bunch of objectplaced RBZ1 spikes to show the feasibility of bouncing up there... though I never did manage to get it. The second GIF shows how you might be able to lure the Unidus out. It's a very strict timelimit with super though (I believe 76 is the max rings you can get and still be able to stay in this area. Maybe 96 if you sacrifice a Unidus to grab the ring monitors up on a high ledge). If someone could find a way to backtrack here with the elemental shield, or even just more rings, this might have a chance of working. As it stands though it looks unreasonably difficult.

EDIT: ERZ2. Imagine a world in which we could somehow get back outside after turning on the power:
https://gfycat.com/ForkedMellowBorer

 

[Kaysakado]

ERZ2 is finished. (skip to 4:00 for the good part.)

 

[CalebM]

The Green one in Greenflower zone Act 1 is SO Easy to get.

 

[TehRealSalt]

Haha, the quit message right at the end there. :y

I would be all for every emblem in SRB2 being possible to get as Sonic, even if it's through ridiculous stunts such as these.

 

[Kaysakado]

The Green one in Greenflower zone Act 1 is SO Easy to get.

Yeah, this is true.

Haha, the quit message right at the end there. :y

I would be all for every emblem in SRB2 being possible to get as Sonic, even if it's through ridiculous stunts such as these.

Lol yeah. I'd like to say I manip'd the RNG to get that to come up but I actually just accidentally hit F10 instead of F9.

The thing with these strats is they can't really be designed. The intrigue with most of these is that they are definitely NOT intended to be gotten by Sonic, at all. Some of them are clearly easier for Tails/Knuckles, but definitely possible for Sonic. An example is the Purple emblem in GFZ1. If you told whoever placed that emblem there that Sonic could get it by crawla hopping, it'd be like, "yeah, and now are you gonna tell me that Eggman's fat?" As I recall, back when emblems were character specific, a few Sonic emblems required little tricks like that! ACZ comes to mind.

But if you said you could reach the top of the castle in CEZ1 as Sonic that's a little more interesting, because no one, at any point in development, thought "Hmm, Sonic might be able to get up here." So no, I don't think there should be a conscious effort to make sure all emblems are obtainable by Sonic. This engine gives a lot of tools to the player, self-imposed challenges like these shouldn't be made possible by the designers, but rather by the players.

That said, I think a lot of these Knuckles-only emblems are lazy as fuck. Like the one in the DSZ2 block maze? It's not an interesting emblem whatsoever. It's literally Knuckles breaks wall -> walks into emblem.