How do you feel about emulation?

[MrBreada]

Just want to know your opinion.

I, personally, am very poor, so emulation is literally the only option for me to enjoy the vast majority of gaming. Also, some retro games are ridiculously overpriced, forcing some collectors to just use emulation.

 

[Zwip-Zwap Zapony]

I really like emulation. It allows me to play classic games such as Super Mario 64, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time, and The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask in anti-aliased 1080p widescreen, and even play Super Mario 64's story with a friend (rom hacks). Plus cheat codes, and no fear of breaking a cart-ridge or console while using cheats, as well as basically just rom hacks in general.

Sadly, I have a laptop, so I can't do much more emulation than Nintendo 64 or PlayStation 1 at a smooth 60 frames per second framerate.

My opinion about emulation is it's perfectly fine... as long as one owns the game(s) legally, if they're not free/hacks/whatever.

 

[Joosp]

A big whopping "eh".

I never usually emulate anything unless I've already purchased a copy elsewhere before. Even then if I do decide to play something like that on an emulator, I'd rather play it on the console it was intended for since games are usually optimized for the hardware it's running on.

 

[TheDoctor]

I love emulators. I have emulations of stuff that I already have for something else, for the sole purpose of having it. I just love the idea of something attempting to be something else. My phone is a gamecube/dreamcast. This is an amazing thing to realize.

 

[Lilly]

As much as I love playing on original hardware, I've always wanted my favorite SNES, NES, and Genesis titles portable, in the palm of my hands. Homebrew DS emulation fills the void for me where Nintendo's 3DS eShop falls short. (SNES VC plz Nintendo. Are you guys allergic to money or something?) Emulation saves companies the trouble of porting all their old games over to the next system, and that can take up a lot of resources from new, original projects.

Emulation is a good thing, and will keep our favorite classics alive long after the unique parts in our consoles give out completely. Hardware clones help keep the dream alive for original cartridges too. I'd definitely buy a quality SNES clone if originals are too expensive at the time.

A big whopping "eh".

I never usually emulate anything unless I've already purchased a copy elsewhere before. Even then if I do decide to play something like that on an emulator, I'd rather play it on the console it was intended for since games are usually optimized for the hardware it's running on.

Since when was any PS2 game optimized? *bricked*

Your ROMs are still illegal if you didn't make those backup from your original carts. There's really no excuse not to when homebrew software makes this easier than ever. (You can even use a Wii to make ISOs of your Gamecube games, or a DVD drive for PCs that can read GC discs.) For all of my GBA ROMs, I backed up myself using my R4 on the DS and GBA Backup, including their save files. They work too.

Of course, only distributors are chased after most of the time, since, well, good luck affording to sue the 2 to 5 million people who downloaded it from said distributors. You're fine either way, I guess.

 

[clairebun]

It's whatever. No one cares if you download and play roms, especially if it's like Genesis or NES or something. Some sites literally allow you to play those games on your web browser nowadays.

Now, if you're distributing commercial roms (specifically like, anything not older than a decade), then Sony or whatever will be on your ass before you know it. With that in mind, you should be careful about how you torrent and what you seed.

 

[Larz T]

Personally, I don't mind emulation for like really old games but for some reason, I don't feel like I get the genuine experience. For example I had once downloaded Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles ROMS and played for about 15 minutes exactly right before deleting the ROMS and downloading them off Virtual Console for about $16 total which is worth the money in my opinion. After sitting down and playing them on a couch with a controller, I felt pretty satisfied, and to this day I still do this.

Also I do the same thing Jasper does. I don't normally emulate a game like Super Mario World unless if I already have it which as of this case, I do for both Virtual Console and Gameboy Advance. Sneaking in some Super Mario World at school has never been so cool...I guess?

 

[TheDoctor]

Larztard's last statement simply reminds me of how awesome it is for me to sit in school, and during free time (ie. Lunch) randomly start playing Sonic Adventure 2 on my phone. And that's another cool thing about emulators, the fact that the emulators on mobile devices are mobile. I, who own SA2 and SA1 at home, can now play it where ever I go.

 

[Superjustinbros]

I love doing it for the sake of playing Japan-only titles and the plethora of ROM hacks. It also helps tremendously in sprite and BGM ripping, I find.

 

[Lilly]

It's whatever. No one cares if you download and play roms, especially if it's like Genesis or NES or something. Some sites literally allow you to play those games on your web browser nowadays.

Now, if you're distributing commercial roms (specifically like, anything not older than a decade), then Sony or whatever will be on your ass before you know it. With that in mind, you should be careful about how you torrent and what you seed.

Ah, torrents, great way to cripple a cheap router's IP Tables while something's downloading. I used to have to pause my dad's torrents so I could co-op on SRB2 online years ago.

Realistically, that's all they can do to keep downloads in check. Companies can't stop thousands to millions of people torrenting something, but they can get the drop on the guy sharing it in the first place, and as Steam would say, provide a better service to help curb piracy.

I remember when the Australian release of New Super Mario Bros on the Wii was leaked online. (It may have been discussed here too a long time ago.) Nintendo threatened to sue the distributor for $2 Million, or be a scene mole for them. I'm betting he took the latter option.

 

[Joosp]

Since when was any PS2 game optimized? *bricked*

it pains me but it is the truth

I guess I believe that somehow purchasing a game makes it more authentic than just grabbing it from the internet, even though it is the exact same game running on a different set of hardware. This also includes emulated games on stuff like Virtual Console, so this is a bit ironic.

...Maybe I'm just stupid and I'm being fleeced out of quality games for no reason.

 

[Lilly]

In fairness, it is harder for me to take a game seriously unless I bought it legitimately, either digitally with a license/GoG library addition, or a physical copy with its case and manual. On the other hand, it's nice being able to try out classics I missed out on as a kid, (And believe me, I missed out on everything despite my age, even Sonic 3.) so I can see if buying a cart on Ebay is worth the trouble.

For instance, literal year before Shantae was approved to be released on Nintendo's Virtual Console, there was no other way to play the first game than to spend hundreds of dollars on a real cartridge. So I gave it a spin on Lameboy with my DS. That sparked me becoming a fan of the series, starting the first fan forums about Shantae, making fan art, meeting a fair chunk of my newer friends, and itching to drop $40 on all three games day-one, when I get a 3DS.

Lord knows WayForward will also get money from me come Half-Genie Hero's release, and some of their other IPs as well. Without emulators existing, none of that would've happened.

 

[Jellybones]

Emulators are great. Old systems can be a pain to use; I remember owning a Sega Saturn and it was just inconvenient to get the games I wanted, use memory cards, etc. And frankly, I just don't want to pay for every game- call it cheap, but I have more important things to pay for than an old PS2 or SNES game that would only profit some sweaty guy on Ebay trying to bust my ba-erm, wallet.

It's also a form of preservation. It's true we see more re-releases than ever, but these are only select titles after all. Consoles and hardware a huge barrier to experiencing video games of yesteryear, and emulation does away with the barrier- all you need is a capable PC. (That, and our old systems won't last forever.) If you're worried about the legalities or just moral for some reason, support re-releases that do exist and use emulation for games that companies aren't even making a profit from anymore. Simple.

 

[clairebun]

Emulators are great. Old systems can be a pain to use; I remember owning a Sega Saturn and it was just inconvenient to get the games I wanted, use memory cards, etc. And frankly, I just don't want to pay for every game- call it cheap, but I have more important things to pay for than an old PS2 or SNES game that would only profit some sweaty guy on Ebay trying to bust my ba-erm, wallet.

It's also a form of preservation. It's true we see more re-releases than ever, but these are only select titles after all. Consoles and hardware a huge barrier to experiencing video games of yesteryear, and emulation does away with the barrier- all you need is a capable PC. (That, and our old systems won't last forever.) If you're worried about the legalities or just moral for some reason, support re-releases that do exist and use emulation for games that companies aren't even making a profit from anymore. Simple.

That's basically how I see it.

I'll say that although I've played a lot of SNES games via emulator, I've also bought quite a few actual cartridges in the past few years or so just because I had access to a local retro game store. It feels a lot better to play SNES games on the original hardware using the original SNES controllers, and it's nice to have physical copies of the game. Honestly, I don't think emulation steals as much money from companies as a lot of other people probably think; in the end, if you want a comfortable and quality experience, you tend to gravitate toward the official thing. PC emulation is convenient, but it's a different experience.

 

[Saturn Ross]

Personally, if I emulate anything on PC, then it just doesn't feel right. I own a soft-modded Wii though, so I can play with a GameCube controller, so thats no problem. About the Virtual Console-esque services, they're cash grabs. Why pay again for a game you may already own? That, and they don't port everything, so if you really enjoy a game that isn't overly popular or defined the system, then you're out of luck. And if you don't own the game but emulate it anyways, it's not any problem if the system isn't supported by the company any more, or if it's not available in your country. Also, you need emulators to play most hacks/homebrew, since getting, say Sonic MegaMix on a real cartridge would be pricey and support the pirate who sold it to you illegally, and most hacks are only downloads anyway. And you can use online multiplayer, so that's a large plus. So overall, emulation is a nice way to experience a lot of classic (and not so classic) games.

 

[TheDoomguy]

Well, I find it good, for example, there is this game called "Monty On The Run", The game itself doesn't work properly on USA C64 machines, and Mexico didn't even got the Commodore so... Yeah, it let me play games that I can't get, as for the games that I can get, well, I just download them if they pick my attention, like all those hacks at SMWCentral, I need to copy my rom of SMW over and over and, well you get the point, it is handy when you need it, but when you not... Whatever, it's the same, you can't even stop piracy, it's like trying to stop the water cycle.

 

[Jellybones]

And if you don't own the game but emulate it anyways, it's not any problem if the system isn't supported by the company any more, or if it's not available in your country.

It's not so much an issue if the game you're emulating is one a supported/dead platform or not, just if they're still making money off of it.

For instance if you emulate any Saturn game or whatever, most of the time they've never been re-released and even if you got a legit copy it's not as if the devs or publishers would make money off it in this day and age. So pirating isn't hurting anybody. (except greedy collectors) If you were to emulate something like Nights however, it's a trickier territory because it's a game that's available on modern services and so you have to wonder if it hurts sales. That is to say, if that issue even bothers you at all. I personally find myself caring less about larger western publishers on that front.

 

[Prime 2.0]

So pirating isn't hurting anybody. (except greedy collectors).

I love how you just painted everyone who actually did buy something and chose to resell with one brush like that, and actually implied that that assumption actually mitigates anything.

Used game sales do not directly fund the game makers, no, but the #1 thing that the people who sell them will be using that money for is more videogames, probably from the same publishers and developers. Ergo, buying used helps subsidize more new game purchases - similarly, many people budget game purchases on the explicit expectation of being able to resell later, so even the impression of a less robust secondary market given by, say, bragging about pirating instead of buying used can negatively impact new game sales.

Does it always work out this way? No - some developers, and less often some publishers go belly up, and sometimes that money goes somewhere else, but it's not something that can be easily brushed off, either. Videogame publishers are fully aware of that as well - why do you think they provide any support at all to businesses whose core premise is used game sales like gamestop when disadvantaging them enough could push consumers to other outlets?

I'm no fan of the status quo in copyright law, and have my own thoughts about the limits to what is reasonable for spending on out of print games - but I don't try to convince myself that piracy is anything other than what it is.


Just so there's no confusion, despite the tone of my post, this isn't a warning, and I'm not about to hand out any infractions. As usual, discussion is fine, so long as you don't actually use the MB to help anyone engage in piracy.

 

[Lilly]

Seeing auctions for Shantae carts make me want to faint, though. =P *bricked*

Still, your perspective on piracy is mind-opening, Prime. I'd guess everyone has their price; we can't help how supply-and-demand works. I'm okay with the Gamecube version of Twilight Princess running for $40 average, and I'd gladly jump on a cart of Zero Mission for $20. Then, I see other rare games going for twice or greater than their original price tag, and it's like, "Nope. That game's cool, just not $120 cool.".

That's the point where most people would rather pirate. Those games will be bought up by people with more capitol to spend either way, although the price tag is prohibitively high to everyone else.

Back to your own point, I would believe it excessively frugal to pirate a game you could've bought that morning instead of a Starbucks coffee. The Used Game Industry has a lot of weight to shift around, (Enough to scare Sony out of putting invasive DRM on PS3 discs, as I've heard.) so keeping that alive is a good thing.

Many of these classics are being resold officially on digital stores now too, usually for less than their physical counterparts on Ebay. If you can buy an old game you want, there's no sense in not doing that. Developers depend on sales for them to create more future classics that you may or may not pirate years later in the first place, after all.

 

[Jellybones]

I love how you just painted everyone who actually did buy something and chose to resell with one brush like that, and actually implied that that assumption actually mitigates anything.

But then your post is also an assumption, isn't it? No doubt about it there are plenty of fair resellers who budget like you just described. I guess I should have been more specific, but I'm not talking about those people. I'm thinking mainly of the truly exorbitant prices on games like Shantae and Panzer Dragoon Saga. Now, those people- those are selfish collectors. There are people, right now, who own multiple copies of these games,never even open/play them and attempt to charge a small fortune. These are old, technically obsolete games that shouldn't go as high as they do.

It's a different story when you're buying/selling games that are far more modern and maybe difficult or impossible to emulate. I think that's normal, and usually at the prices in those situations are fair.

And piracy is only that if you believe so. Games are made obfuscated and difficult to play because of hardware and so many of them are lost to time. For all the HD rereleases and ports we have today the fact of the matter is that the majority of games will never see the light of day again. This isn't the same compared to, say, movies because DVDs, Blu-Rays, and in their time, VHS were all one mainstream method of playing these movies on what was the same device everywhere, a VHS/DVD/Blu-Ray player. And then rereleasing those movies onto the latest format is likely not difficult at all. Considering how many titles have been created by small budget, defunct, or flat our obscure companies on obscure devices the chance of them being sold commercially again is low. It's great that our PCs can finally act as the device to preserve this artistic medium. It's only piracy (in terms of morality, not necessarily legality) when you download something that the publishers are still making a profit off of today.

And damn if I'm going to pay $300 or upwards to play something like Panzer Dragoon Saga or the like- I don't care where that money goes.