How do you convince people to play srb2?

[Mystic]

Actually, the problem with the controls goes a little deeper than you seem to think: it's a mismatch of player expectations versus how it works. Even if we included gamepad default controls, most players would still call the game slippery when they first started playing it. The reason is because SRB2 has a button that 3D Sonic games entirely lack: backpedal.

In 2D Sonic games, if you get moving really fast and let go of the controls, you keep moving for quite a while unless you press the opposite direction. In official 3D Sonic games, if you get moving really fast and let go of the controls, you dead stop almost immediately. In SRB2, it works a lot like the 2D games, but since the game is 3D, people expect to just stop when they let go of forward, when in reality if they want to stop they have to hit the brakes. This is made even worse by a bug if you're going extremely fast that makes the directional controls do almost nothing, forcing the player to tap the brake first and THEN try to maneuver, something that as expert players you probably do without even thinking, but to a newer player it makes the game's controls feel unresponsive because to most new players, the backpedal/brake key simply does not exist.

While we as developers still struggle to try to figure out how to explain this to the player, someone introducing the game to a friend doesn't have this issue. Simply tell your friend that in order to stop in the game, you have to hold the brake. Generally the moment the player figures out the braking mechanics is the point when SRB2 goes from a slippery mess to pretty fun.

 

[Shane]

In 2D Sonic games, if you get moving really fast and let go of the controls, you keep moving for quite a while unless you press the opposite direction. In official 3D Sonic games, if you get moving really fast and let go of the controls, you dead stop almost immediately. In SRB2, it works a lot like the 2D games, but since the game is 3D, people expect to just stop when they let go of forward, when in reality if they want to stop they have to hit the brakes.

At the risk of going off topic, is this something leftover from the Doom code? I remember this being an issue one of my friends ran into with a ZDoom mod. We did come to a resolution with that. I'm not familiar with how Doom Legacy compares to it, but I could always tell you where he found the code in the source if it's worth anything to you. If it's something you're planning on leaving in or not something you're really worried with, then I won't worry about it. :)

 

[Metal96]

(strafing should be there right from the get-go to get them adjusted, playing SRB2 in any way, shape, or form without it is literal hell).

I rarely strafe, if ever. ._.

And to continue on what Mystic was saying, this ends up going back to the dumbification of modern gaming, which is where the topic seemed to be headed in the first place. Players are accustomed to on-rails, cinematic gaming with less freedom and no replay value etc. What this means is that the game does everything for the player; we can easily see this with any modern Sonic game especially. So the player expects that if they tell the game to stop progressing, it will stop progressing and do nothing, since all the player has to do to "play" is push forward, or tell the game to progress. So the "slippery" controls ends up being an artifact of actual playability, not unplayability.

 

[Mystic]

No, I think you're misunderstanding me. This actually isn't a judgment of the gameplay of modern Sonic at all, despite my distaste for it. It's simply a difference in the control models used in classic and modern Sonic. Essentially, when you let go of the controls in modern Sonic, it brakes for you. Classic Sonic and SRB2 don't, requiring you to hold the direction opposite the one you're moving to slow down. Since a lot of players are coming from modern Sonic, they let go of the controls, expecting to slow down, and they don't, slipping off the platform they intended to stop on. This mismatch in expectations versus how it actually works is why most people complain that SRB2 feels slippery, as is part of why SRB2 has such a nasty difficulty curve. We're trying a few things to make it easier for new players to understand what's happening in 2.1, but fixing the issue is pretty much impossible without changing the game entirely.

 

[VelocitOni]

What about changing the Back button in the options menu to say "Brake" instead, or have skidframes when holding back after stopping; this way if they press back by accident when trying to control the "slipperyness" they'll notice immediately and try to reproduce the effect. Or just the classic skid sound and dust would be enough if you didn't want to create a totally new effect.

 

[Mystic]

What about changing the Back button in the options menu to say "Brake" instead

Problem is it isn't quite a brake. It's only a brake if you're moving forward. I've thought of doing this anyways, though.

Or just the classic skid sound and dust would be enough if you didn't want to create a totally new effect.

This is already in 2.1 and has been for quite a while, actually.

 

[VelocitOni]

Although I'm excited to hear about the classic dust and sound making an appearance, won't it look awkward with the player using walking frames (or anything else for that matter) rather than actual skidding ones? Or will they slide in their standing ones instead?

In any case the new visual reference is very welcome. I'll take your word for it about introducing new players to the mechanics better, but I still believe reassigning better default controls is necessary. As well as giving analog mode the boot, or at least hiding it. Seriously, it still turns on by itself every single time I try to play a Single Player map with a gamepad plugged in, it's frustrating.

 

[WellDoneSnake]

I actually thought that everyone liked analog mode, guess I was wrong.
Why should it be given the boot? It comes in handy when you're trying to recreate a modern sonic feel to the srb2 gameplay.

 

[Shadow Hog]

...why would you want a Modern Sonic feel? It's not like SRB2 has large enough stages to accommodate Unleashed-style boost gameplay, as much as I like it, and I wouldn't want the game to play anything like 2K6.

Now, making it feel more like most console 3D platformers, that I can understand. Personally I feel more in control with WASD+mouse, but whatever floats one's boat, I suppose.

 

[Shane]

Now, making it feel more like most console 3D platformers, that I can understand.

That's probably what he meant. That's how I set it up when I want to sit back with a friend and play some split screen mode. Otherwise, like I said earlier, I prefer to use a Quake styled control scheme. I don't think I'll ever feel as in control with a controller as I would with a mouse and keyboard.

 

[Aegix]

I tried to do it years back by just trying to tell them and show them, but none of my friends really cared enough to try it.

...Over the summer (or whenever the next update come out, whichever comes first), I'm probably gonna throw a review up on my blog, then convince my friends to download it and make a drinking game out of it somehow (that's what I had to do to get them to play Brawl minus, which they now love).

If I can find the time/inclination/whatever to do a livestream as well, that'll probably get at least one person I know to play it once in a while.