SANICBOOM644
Blue Hedgehog Acceleration
What are your thoughts on the ongoing Future Trunks Arc?
Dragon Ball Super
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I've only seen bits and pieces of Super, but honestly I'm just not interested
Mind you, I'm of the viewpoint that the real peak of the series was in the Piccolo Jr. saga of the original Dragon Ball, either that or the Frieza saga in DBZ(Kai). The fighting was a lot more grounded in martial arts and there was more emphasis placed on the choreography, which made them more interesting to watch. The moment everyone is able to fly indefinitely and fire energy blasts, the fights end up losing a lot of their depth and everyone starts feeling the same, even at different power levels.
This isn't even getting into the plot, which I think starts to slowly sink somewhere in the middle of DBZ. Reasons why:
* After Namekian Dragon Balls were introduced, I felt that the concept was abused to the point where it was impossible to feel any tension in a character dying, knowing that sooner or later anything bad that happens to the dragon balls is going to be retconned by an even stronger set of dragon balls.
* Character interactions become muddied after Dragon Ball ends. Interesting side characters such as Puar, Oolong, and Launch become lost to time because they no longer have any utility in DBZ's expanding universe. This goes the same for once potent fighters such as Yamcha, Krillin, and Tien, to the point where it's a wonder that they even appear in fights anymore.
* This kinds of drives into the next point, which is the fact that the series is defined by power creep, which is what causes it to suffer the most. It works well enough in DBZ since extraterrestrial life was only just introduced at the beginning of Z, but after the Frieza Saga it just becomes incredulous. The Cell Saga would have me believe that the Red Ribbon army, which couldn't even handle Kid Goku in season 2 of DB, could just up and kill every Z fighter sans Goku himself simply by researching fighters underground? Or, in Super's case, that two underdeveloped grunts that were under Frieza's rule would become as strong as Frieza, who during DBZ was ten times stronger than any of his underlings? And that kid Trunks is supposed to be even stronger than that? The sense of power scaling is just completely lost on me.
I honestly think that Goku's story should have ended after he first became a Super Saiyan. That felt like a proper climax, and if all the dragonballs were destroyed then it would have extra impact. This isn't to say the series should have outright ended there, but it could have gone a completely different direction, like following a different character's adventures up until DBZ. Instead of expanding forward, why not look back on characters with not as much strength as Super Saiyan Goku? What if there was a Dragon Ball series that focused on Vegeta's adventures, while he was invading planets under Frieza's rule? Even just in that example, there's plenty of potential writing material to work with.
Mind you, I'm of the viewpoint that the real peak of the series was in the Piccolo Jr. saga of the original Dragon Ball, either that or the Frieza saga in DBZ(Kai). The fighting was a lot more grounded in martial arts and there was more emphasis placed on the choreography, which made them more interesting to watch. The moment everyone is able to fly indefinitely and fire energy blasts, the fights end up losing a lot of their depth and everyone starts feeling the same, even at different power levels.
This isn't even getting into the plot, which I think starts to slowly sink somewhere in the middle of DBZ. Reasons why:
* After Namekian Dragon Balls were introduced, I felt that the concept was abused to the point where it was impossible to feel any tension in a character dying, knowing that sooner or later anything bad that happens to the dragon balls is going to be retconned by an even stronger set of dragon balls.
* Character interactions become muddied after Dragon Ball ends. Interesting side characters such as Puar, Oolong, and Launch become lost to time because they no longer have any utility in DBZ's expanding universe. This goes the same for once potent fighters such as Yamcha, Krillin, and Tien, to the point where it's a wonder that they even appear in fights anymore.
* This kinds of drives into the next point, which is the fact that the series is defined by power creep, which is what causes it to suffer the most. It works well enough in DBZ since extraterrestrial life was only just introduced at the beginning of Z, but after the Frieza Saga it just becomes incredulous. The Cell Saga would have me believe that the Red Ribbon army, which couldn't even handle Kid Goku in season 2 of DB, could just up and kill every Z fighter sans Goku himself simply by researching fighters underground? Or, in Super's case, that two underdeveloped grunts that were under Frieza's rule would become as strong as Frieza, who during DBZ was ten times stronger than any of his underlings? And that kid Trunks is supposed to be even stronger than that? The sense of power scaling is just completely lost on me.
I honestly think that Goku's story should have ended after he first became a Super Saiyan. That felt like a proper climax, and if all the dragonballs were destroyed then it would have extra impact. This isn't to say the series should have outright ended there, but it could have gone a completely different direction, like following a different character's adventures up until DBZ. Instead of expanding forward, why not look back on characters with not as much strength as Super Saiyan Goku? What if there was a Dragon Ball series that focused on Vegeta's adventures, while he was invading planets under Frieza's rule? Even just in that example, there's plenty of potential writing material to work with.
SANICBOOM644
Blue Hedgehog Acceleration
In the Future Trunks Arc the stakes have never been higher. there's beautiful animation and the story is actually good. Now for once, we have a real villain with actual motives. In Future Trunks Arc a mysterious being called Goku Black comes and destroys everything ( and kills very specific people
) Running out of choices, Trunks decides to travel back to the past, to acquire the help of Goku and Co. TBH this is the best arc since it's really serious and dark, while not being edgy. If you have time to watch it you will be suprised
P.S. I think DB is better than DBZ since the fights have actual movements instead of "lets move our hands real fast for the sake of lazy animation!" and no "my laser is stronger than yours" bs. Super doesn't really suffer from this problem
) Running out of choices, Trunks decides to travel back to the past, to acquire the help of Goku and Co. TBH this is the best arc since it's really serious and dark, while not being edgy. If you have time to watch it you will be suprised
P.S. I think DB is better than DBZ since the fights have actual movements instead of "lets move our hands real fast for the sake of lazy animation!" and no "my laser is stronger than yours" bs. Super doesn't really suffer from this problem
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maybe I just need to watch some episodes in full, but honestly I'm just too bothered by the constant power creep. Frieza should never ever ever be referred to in any episode as "not a real challenge", especially when at the time he was supposed to be the strongest being in the universe
It's been a while since I paid attention to Dragon Ball, but IIRC Toriyama intended the Freeza arc to be the end of the series. Turns out most people are willing to write more when presented with comically large piles of money.
Trunks arc is great so far, i know something is going to happen regarding the F word but honeslty the thing that is bothering me is, will DBsuper have another arc? Since DB animes usually have 4 arcs.
And if they do have another arc i dont want it centered around goku, i mean, you have alot of other characters to build on! Like the original z fighters(tien, yamcha, krillian, piccilo, etc...)
Edit: animation is good but im not really interested in crazy good animation
And if they do have another arc i dont want it centered around goku, i mean, you have alot of other characters to build on! Like the original z fighters(tien, yamcha, krillian, piccilo, etc...)
Edit: animation is good but im not really interested in crazy good animation
SANICBOOM644
Blue Hedgehog Acceleration
That's why Golden Frieza was made. The reason why he was defeated by Goku was that Frieza had never trained before, this explained in Resurrection F when Frieza trained for 6 months and reached the level of SSB.
P.S. Super Saiyan is still a valid transformation and hasn't been dropped. It is still used mainly by Future Trunks, then less Goku, then less Vegeta
I think it's obvious Db Super will have another arc. The multiversal Tournament, which will be the greatest and prolly the longest arc ever.
Edited: The only thing that I dislike in Db Super is Gohan got belittled, I mean come on. Gohan has a saga and a great potential.
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sasuketo uzuchihamaki
I GO BY ICYCOLDLAVA™ NOW
I went through phases with Super. The Beerus arc was good and I liked the extra stuff they added that wasn't in the movie. The WHOLE of the RoFrieza arc was god awful and you're better off watching the movie for that arc. Honestly I had always been iffy on the animation but the RoF turned me off from Super completely. At this point I just saw Super as mediocre, shit animation fanservice with 0 tension.
And then the first Multiverse tournament came and suddenly quality, fight choreography, tension and animation increased dramatically. The Magetta and Cabba fights were great, but HOLY SHIT the Hit fight was hype and the time-skip assassinn gimmick was amazing. Honestly Hit might be my favorite character in the whole of DB/Z/S. This is when I realized Toriyama might actually give a fuck about his story
Ofcourse, when the Goku Black arc was announced, all I could do was lol because the premise sounded like some deviantart recolor bullshit, but boy was I wrong. The current Future trunks are so far is actually turning out to be one of the best and most fleshed out arcs in the series. Toriyama even addressed preconceptions about the shitty-sounding premise with jokes within the episode.
I think what really turned people off for Super is that they wasted the first 30something episodes redoing the movies in low quality when they should have just skipped immediately to the original stories. As for me, I didn't think Super would get to a point where I'm genuinely curious to see what happens next, but its turned out to be really interesting.
And then the first Multiverse tournament came and suddenly quality, fight choreography, tension and animation increased dramatically. The Magetta and Cabba fights were great, but HOLY SHIT the Hit fight was hype and the time-skip assassinn gimmick was amazing. Honestly Hit might be my favorite character in the whole of DB/Z/S. This is when I realized Toriyama might actually give a fuck about his story
Ofcourse, when the Goku Black arc was announced, all I could do was lol because the premise sounded like some deviantart recolor bullshit, but boy was I wrong. The current Future trunks are so far is actually turning out to be one of the best and most fleshed out arcs in the series. Toriyama even addressed preconceptions about the shitty-sounding premise with jokes within the episode.
I think what really turned people off for Super is that they wasted the first 30something episodes redoing the movies in low quality when they should have just skipped immediately to the original stories. As for me, I didn't think Super would get to a point where I'm genuinely curious to see what happens next, but its turned out to be really interesting.
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Oh yeah the one that Omni king wanted. That could be another arc.
Something interesting about Super on the narrative level is that it's exploring how the characters deal with situations where power creep either can't solve the problem, or makes it worse because the other guys get stronger faster.
Beerus remains the big kid on the block, and nobody can take him out. Whis is even stronger. The King of All is either placated or everyone dies. And now we have a pair of fighters, one of which is immortal, and the other is getting better shonen powerups than the heroes and now they've busted out the Evil Sealing Wave from DragonBall to cope.
In any given fight, any given fight, the heroes might lose. Even if they're getting swole shonen powerups, they might lose. Even if it's the climax of the arc, they might lose or at least not win how they wanted to. That's pretty exciting.
It's really not phoned in at all, honestly - this is all pretty neat. I mean, ignoring that they just did retellings of the movies, that was kinda lame.
Beerus remains the big kid on the block, and nobody can take him out. Whis is even stronger. The King of All is either placated or everyone dies. And now we have a pair of fighters, one of which is immortal, and the other is getting better shonen powerups than the heroes and now they've busted out the Evil Sealing Wave from DragonBall to cope.
In any given fight, any given fight, the heroes might lose. Even if they're getting swole shonen powerups, they might lose. Even if it's the climax of the arc, they might lose or at least not win how they wanted to. That's pretty exciting.
It's really not phoned in at all, honestly - this is all pretty neat. I mean, ignoring that they just did retellings of the movies, that was kinda lame.
Shaddy the guy
Professional ass-merchant
Honestly guys I don't know how any of you can enjoy the future Trunks arc. Not only does it suffer greatly from things that Cobalt already stated like the introduction of yet another set of Dragon Balls (to that I would like to add the use of the hyperbolic time chamber which is now limitless) and the still declining relevance of side characters, It's basically only Goku and Vegeta now (along with Trunks for this arc).
But by far the worse aspect of this arc is how they handled the time travel. So from what I understood Zamasu hates humans and his hatred grew even more after his defeat against Goku so he decided to steal Goku's body in order to obtain his power and finally be able to exterminate all humans in all the universes. but first he kills Goku and Gowasu, becomes a real supreme kai and gain the ability to use the time ring. He then uses that time ring to travel to another timeline (future Trunks's timeline) and team up with the Zamasu from that timeline where he is now named Goku Black. Now this is where things start to get bad, Trunks goes to Goku's timeline to ask for his help. After some "research" they start to suspect Zamasu and go to his place to meet him. Goku asks for a fight against him and wins. It's because of that event that Zamasu is interested in Goku and later decide to steal his body. But that event only happened because of Trunks interference in Goku's timeline, if he didn't come Goku and Zamasu would have never met and the Zamasu from Goku's timeline would never make a move just like the one from Trunks's timeline who only made his move because of the other Zamasu's influence. BUT that other Zamasu IS the Zamasu from Goku's timeline (Goku Black) and since Trunks didn't have any reason to time travel back to Goku's timeline before the appearence of Goku Black in his timeline what caused Zamasu and Goku's meeting would have never happened making the existance of Goku Black impossible.
Beerus has the ability to make anyone he kills disappear from every timeline. When he killed Zamasu in goku's timeline that move was supposed to destroy both Zamasu and Goku Black in Trunks's timeline but it supposedly didn't work because the time ring that Black is wearing negates that effect. Well, the effect should only be negated for the Zamasu from Trunks's timeline because time ring or not people die when they are killed, the time ring isn't supposed to be a immortality granting item, from what I understood it's supposed to protect the Zamasus from every other timeline from beerus's powers but not the Zamasu that he killed just because of the fact that if he is killed he no longer have a future.
There are also some things that I have a hard time believing but that did happen anyway. One of those is the fact that Zamasu and Black weren't able to decimate earth's humans during the time Trunks passed in Goku's timeline. With Trunks gone they basically have no one with the power to oppose them and let's not forget that all the way back to the Saiyain Saga in DBZ Nappa was able to destroy an entire city by lifting one finger and considering that Black and Zamasu are MUCH stronger than Nappa ever was and that despite that they still can't get rid of a few humans is simply impossible to understand for me....
Well, the anime does have some really well animated fighting sequences here and there but like Cobalt already said "The moment everyone is able to fly indefinitely and fire energy blasts, the fights end up losing a lot of their depth and everyone starts feeling the same, even at different power levels."
But by far the worse aspect of this arc is how they handled the time travel. So from what I understood Zamasu hates humans and his hatred grew even more after his defeat against Goku so he decided to steal Goku's body in order to obtain his power and finally be able to exterminate all humans in all the universes. but first he kills Goku and Gowasu, becomes a real supreme kai and gain the ability to use the time ring. He then uses that time ring to travel to another timeline (future Trunks's timeline) and team up with the Zamasu from that timeline where he is now named Goku Black. Now this is where things start to get bad, Trunks goes to Goku's timeline to ask for his help. After some "research" they start to suspect Zamasu and go to his place to meet him. Goku asks for a fight against him and wins. It's because of that event that Zamasu is interested in Goku and later decide to steal his body. But that event only happened because of Trunks interference in Goku's timeline, if he didn't come Goku and Zamasu would have never met and the Zamasu from Goku's timeline would never make a move just like the one from Trunks's timeline who only made his move because of the other Zamasu's influence. BUT that other Zamasu IS the Zamasu from Goku's timeline (Goku Black) and since Trunks didn't have any reason to time travel back to Goku's timeline before the appearence of Goku Black in his timeline what caused Zamasu and Goku's meeting would have never happened making the existance of Goku Black impossible.
Beerus has the ability to make anyone he kills disappear from every timeline. When he killed Zamasu in goku's timeline that move was supposed to destroy both Zamasu and Goku Black in Trunks's timeline but it supposedly didn't work because the time ring that Black is wearing negates that effect. Well, the effect should only be negated for the Zamasu from Trunks's timeline because time ring or not people die when they are killed, the time ring isn't supposed to be a immortality granting item, from what I understood it's supposed to protect the Zamasus from every other timeline from beerus's powers but not the Zamasu that he killed just because of the fact that if he is killed he no longer have a future.
There are also some things that I have a hard time believing but that did happen anyway. One of those is the fact that Zamasu and Black weren't able to decimate earth's humans during the time Trunks passed in Goku's timeline. With Trunks gone they basically have no one with the power to oppose them and let's not forget that all the way back to the Saiyain Saga in DBZ Nappa was able to destroy an entire city by lifting one finger and considering that Black and Zamasu are MUCH stronger than Nappa ever was and that despite that they still can't get rid of a few humans is simply impossible to understand for me....
Well, the anime does have some really well animated fighting sequences here and there but like Cobalt already said "The moment everyone is able to fly indefinitely and fire energy blasts, the fights end up losing a lot of their depth and everyone starts feeling the same, even at different power levels."
SANICBOOM644
Blue Hedgehog Acceleration
And so the hype begins
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