Big Switch to OpenGL Exclusive?

[Knuckles MetalMind]

Personally, let the developers to finish their game first on software mode, and then OpenGL improvements could make the game live a lot more after that. Don´t get me wrong, I love OpenGL mode, but I´m being serious, I have been playing this game since Demo 2 and I really want the whole thing someday. Egg Rock was literally one of the best 3D Sonic levels ever, and I´m sure we will get even more surprised with next ones.

I haven´t tried your OpenGL version, Kalaron, but I´m afraid of one thing: What will happen when the next SRB2 version gets out and there´s even more changes in the code?? I know by myself people usually get enthusiastic when first working on a project, but once the novelty fades off, it´s hard to keep working on it. If you really want to make SRB2 work on OpenGL, keep in mind many of your current work will have to be redone when the next SRB2 version rolls out.

I´ll try your OpenGL version soon, as I used OpenGL before 2.0, and it will be nice to replay the entire game with different graphics.

 

[Autosaver]

Personally, let the developers to finish their game first on software mode,

How long will it take? We waited years for 2.0 and progress has been slow since. I don't know if people want to wait several MORE years just so they can have multiple MD2s and extra effects.

 

[Rei]

How long will it take? We waited years for 2.0 and progress has been slow since. I don't know if people want to wait several MORE years just so they can have multiple MD2s and extra effects.

Well either way, to wait for SRB2 to be finished or to wait for a OpenGL only SRB2 they both would take quite some time. I mean if you think progress on SRB2 is slow, imagine the wait for an OpenGL SRB2. I think a better conclusion as suggested by Kalaron, is for people who want the OpenGl features of SRB2 CB, should contribute to it. If you want OpenGl versions of GFZ or ERZ go make it yourself. That way you can have levels with those features without waiting for some OpenGL version of SRB2.

 

[Eggmanfan]

Let the creators do as they please. If you want something done make a mod. That's why it's open source and free to editing.

 

[Kalaron]

let the creators do as they please. If you want something done make a mod. That's why it's open source and free to editing.

yes, exactly!!

 

[Bbop800]

Let the creators do as they please. If you want something done make a mod. That's why it's open source and free to editing.

Well okay then, I'll just magically make an amazing mod that supports loops with my outstanding coding skills then.

Seriously though, why are people suddenly assuming that ANYONE can modify SRB2? "Making a mod" is easier said than done as far as I know. You're basically just saying that I can "make a mod" despite having no experience with coding whatsoever? What I mentioned earlier about Kalaron joining STJR was just an idea I thought of off the top of my head.

The developers don't have to do everything themselves.

So you're saying we should do everything ourselves? I don't think you've noticed this yet, but a pretty good number of people have little or no experience in map making, coding, etc. Isn't that why the Sky Sanctuary Team was made in the first place?

 

[Arf]

Seriously though, why are people suddenly assuming that ANYONE can modify SRB2?

Because anyone can! It's one of the biggest features SRB2 has to offer, in my opinion. Read the last two bolded bullet points here. Coding knowledge is not a necessity, too (ex: Mystic Realm).

So you're saying we should do everything ourselves? I don't think you've noticed this yet, but a pretty good number of people have little or no experience in map making, coding, etc. Isn't that why the Sky Sanctuary Team was made in the first place?

How else do you gain experience? It's not given to those users, they learn over the course of time by playing with SRB2's editing capabilities. You have to remember that Sky Sanctuary is a hand-picked group of users from this very community, not a panel of professionals or anything. I don't think every Sky Sanctuary dev has mapmaking/coding abilities either, you know.

 

[Bbop800]

The way Eggmanfan said to just "make a mod" is what bothered me for the most part. I know you can build up on your skills over time. That's exactly why I posted that response, to make a point that building a mod for SRB2 isn't as easy as learning your ABC's or 123's.

 

[Kalaron]

For people that are quick to critique and complain about the future of SRB2:
Learning how to mod? It's not easy. - But it can be done, you just have to want it badly enough. If you REALLY want things to change, then learn how. You have the chance to change anything you want about this game, and that's a feature most games don't have. You can even keep what you do to yourself and have it be personal and only for you. But if you don't even put in the effort it takes to learn, you'll get back what you put in, if the effort it takes isn't worth the outcome to you, then you have to accept that things will stay the same, and you should stop complaining about something you have the privilege to make your own.

-------

I think there's honestly a lot more drama than there needs to be. So let me clarify some concerns about the future of SRB2:

• It is entirely the official dev team's decision on what goes into the official version, whether they want to add OpenGL/slopes/etc. is up to them entirely.
• Just because SRB2CB has a feature like slopes DOES NOT mean SRB2 has to convert all levels to the new feature, again, this decision is up to the official dev team (Other people can remake SRB2's levels with slopes if they want, but the official dev team decides if they want slopes in the default game)
• Some users are concerned that slopes, etc. will delay the game's completion. Honestly, the game hasn't even had a real blog/version update in over a year. The official devs aren't killing themselves to get a new version out, and frankly, SRB2 is not a paid/subscribed game, they don't OWE you anything.
• SRB2 is entirely a hobby for the official developers. They can just stop or finish SRB2 when/if they feel like it.

Personally I'd love to just keep official SRB2 as it is and have the slope one be a separate mod. If someone feels like playing with the original look and feel of SRB2's default levels, they have that choice. If people want something new, they have that choice too.

But again, that's entirely up to the devs.

 

[MascaraSnake]

Some users are concerned that slopes, etc. will delay the game's completion. Honestly, the game hasn't even had a real blog/version update in over a year. The official devs aren't killing themselves to get a new version out, and frankly, SRB2 is not a paid/subscribed game, they don't OWE you anything.

Seems like nobody even knows, but 2.1 will be released when CEZ is finished, and CEZ is almost finished at this moment.

I don't know if people want to wait several MORE years just so they can have multiple MD2s and extra effects.

They can have it right now. Just because SRB2CB isn't the official EXE doesn't mean it's not there.

Frankly, I don't see the point here. Slopes are not yet in a state where they could or should be used in the official levels. And even if they will be sometime in the future, I agree with what Neo said: Adding them would change the style of the game heavily. I don't know if I want that. In any case, this is an issue that should be delayed until SRB2's level are all finished. Until then, let Kalaron continue his mod separately, just like he wanted to all along.

 

[Charybdizs]

Seems like nobody even knows, but 2.1 will be released when CEZ is finished, and CEZ is almost finished at this moment.

Well that's pretty awesome to hear! I knew reading this whole thread through would pay off in the end! :D
I've always been eager to see the way they are redoing CEZ.

 

[Knuckles MetalMind]

How long will it take? We waited years for 2.0 and progress has been slow since. I don't know if people want to wait several MORE years just so they can have multiple MD2s and extra effects.

Personally, if the new levels are half as good as Eggrock, I don´t mind waiting 1, 2, 5 or 10 years more. It´s something free, done by people with their own lives that aren´t being paid, and the results are really amazing. I´ll be more than satisfied if the game just gets finished.

The way Eggmanfan said to just "make a mod" is what bothered me for the most part. I know you can build up on your skills over time. That's exactly why I posted that response, to make a point that building a mod for SRB2 isn't as easy as learning your ABC's or 123's.

Yeah, it isn´t easy, but if you really want to make something for a game, it´s a good experience. Once you learn some basics from graphics, level design or gameplay, it gets easier even if you switch to another kind or game. Coding isn´t that easy too, but you can learn quite fast it you want to.

The problem usually is the time, it takes too much time to make something good. But if you want to do it, you should do it.

Personally I'd love to just keep official SRB2 as it is and have the slope one be a separate mod. If someone feels like playing with the original look and feel of SRB2's default levels, they have that choice. If people want something new, they have that choice too.

But again, that's entirely up to the devs.

Totally agreed.

Seems like nobody even knows, but 2.1 will be released when CEZ is finished, and CEZ is almost finished at this moment.

Awesome news!! I thought we wouldn´t see anything for a while...

Frankly, I don't see the point here. Slopes are not yet in a state where they could or should be used in the official levels. And even if they will be sometime in the future, I agree with what Neo said: Adding them would change the style of the game heavily. I don't know if I want that. In any case, this is an issue that should be delayed until SRB2's level are all finished. Until then, let Kalaron continue his mod separately, just like he wanted to all along.

Exactly.

 

[Oerg]

Well some people have such crap computers that they can't run SRB2 in OpenGL. Besides, everything is fine the way SRB2 is now. Why would the team sacrifice their time to rewrite SRB2's code for slopes and skyboxes? It's two things to cause the devs a shitload of work...

This is wrong. The software renderer SRB2 uses by default takes much more effort for the PC to run smoothly -- If you have a crap PC, the software renderer will lag like hell.

About every asscrapped Intel onboard graphics from after 2002 or so supports OpenGL and is good enough to surpass software rendering speed by a factor of 2, maybe more. Simply because it takes all the rendering load off the CPU.

 

[Fawfulfan]

This is wrong. The software renderer SRB2 uses by default takes much more effort for the PC to run smoothly -- If you have a crap PC, the software renderer will lag like hell.

About every asscrapped Intel onboard graphics from after 2002 or so supports OpenGL and is good enough to surpass software rendering speed by a factor of 2, maybe more. Simply because it takes all the rendering load off the CPU.

EXACTLY. I don't know what's going on with people whose computers lag in OpenGL, because every computer I've ever played SRB2 on runs OpenGL better than Software.

 

[Yoshi]

EXACTLY. I don't know what's going on with people whose computers lag in OpenGL, because every computer I've ever played SRB2 on runs OpenGL better than Software.

My computer is from 2006, it was good for that year, but OpenGL lags and causes graphic problems.

 

[Mystic]

My old PII266 laptop was capable of running SRB2 in OpenGL with the same basic framerate as software, and it was so ancient that I had to disable the OGL lighting effects because it put giant colored dots on the entire texture because the video card didn't support such a feature. It isn't an issue with computer power, it's an issue with bad drivers. If your video card's drivers don't support OpenGL very well or otherwise have problems, OpenGL will fail to work properly. I remember an old computer I used a while ago that put a greenish blue tint on absolutely everything in OGL mode, because for some reason, it refused to display red in any way in OGL mode. Software, on the other hand, was perfectly fine because it requires absolutely nothing but a processor, and it's pretty much a given that any computer around nowadays will have more than enough to run software rendering designed around average computer hardware in 1993.

Essentially, software will always work, and if you lower your resolution, at a good framerate. OpenGL requires your video card be operating properly, and that's not really a given.

 

[Oerg]

My old PII266 laptop was capable of running SRB2 in OpenGL with the same basic framerate as software, and it was so ancient that I had to disable the OGL lighting effects because it put giant colored dots on the entire texture because the video card didn't support such a feature. It isn't an issue with computer power, it's an issue with bad drivers. If your video card's drivers don't support OpenGL very well or otherwise have problems, OpenGL will fail to work properly. I remember an old computer I used a while ago that put a greenish blue tint on absolutely everything in OGL mode, because for some reason, it refused to display red in any way in OGL mode. Software, on the other hand, was perfectly fine because it requires absolutely nothing but a processor, and it's pretty much a given that any computer around nowadays will have more than enough to run software rendering designed around average computer hardware in 1993.

Essentially, software will always work, and if you lower your resolution, at a good framerate. OpenGL requires your video card be operating properly, and that's not really a given.

Either way =P

1. How come I cant play SRB2 on my 486 then (a DX4-100 even!) :( *runs*
2. Software renderer today is not so feasible because it still lags horribly on large resolutions...
3. Driver problems could potentially cause any part of the game to fail...

However, if a pretty modern system cannot play SRB2 in OGL mode it is probably that the person uses the stock Windows graphics drivers which do have proper D3D support but no OpenGL support whatsoever.

Anyway, I forgot what point I actually wanted to make, so eh, Cheers =P

 

[Mystic]

1. How come I cant play SRB2 on my 486 then (a DX4-100 even!) :( *runs*

Because SRB2's level architecture is absurdly more complicated than Doom's. Not to mention all the overhead caused by the insane amount of added features over the years.

2. Software renderer today is not so feasible because it still lags horribly on large resolutions...

The software renderer does not scale up to higher resolutions as well as OpenGL does. Even still, I can run 1280x800 perfectly, and 1920x1200 at full framerate in most stages. At the default resolution of 640x400, I can't imagine any modern system having any issues.

3. Driver problems could potentially cause any part of the game to fail...

Of course, but over the years, it's become very clear that software is less vulnerable to failure in this regard. Stock Windows drivers have no issues with it whatsoever.

 

[SSNTails]

1. How come I cant play SRB2 on my 486 then (a DX4-100 even!) :( *runs*

You CAN!
Especially SRB2 Xmas. Try it out!

 

[Mystic]

Just don't expect a playable framerate in the later stages =P