Abuse of Consurctive Criticism

[Mike_The_Hedgehog]

Lets start off with the fact that enough projects have been led to canning because of this, any projects canned by this are far too much. Now I know constructive critisists are important but some times where some people go with this is enough. Example:
Cause 1:"_______ Fails" or "You fail" Cause 2: "It's ok so far But ______
needs worked on."

Effect 1: "I'm canning this project!" Effect 2: A chance at an great mod

Now I'm sure that can get a decent point across now just in case... Abuse of constructive criticism can come in many forms those I've yet to record but if it isn't stopped now expect the worst to happen in modding.
To finish it off tips of how to do so without hurting a topic

1 Be thoughtful even if it does suck commend them on what they did wright and how to fix what they messed up.

2 Don't be lazy Wiki links aren't offen useful but if you have to go ahead.

and thats all I can think of right now please try to use some of this info for
something...

 

[Slash]

If some one is giving constructive critism, You cant declare it anything else.
Constructive critism always has one meaning.
Hard to understand why you say people are abusing Constructive critism.
If its anything it would be a good thing.

If no one critisized me on a project i made, I will keep on making projects of that quality.
Constructive critism is there to help people get better on their work, Not to tear down their self esteem.
If they decide to stop making it its on them, if they decide to ingnore the critisizm and keep on working on project, thats just their issue.

 

[Sik]

The examples you gave are actually the ones not considered constructive criticism. But yeah, I'm also tired that a lot of people directly say "read the wiki" without even trying to put the effort in helping a bit. They don't even tell you where to look. I wonder if those people actually ever read the wiki.

 

[xxBeanGirl420xx]

Keep in mind: Constructive criticism is NOT false hope. Saying a modification or map is "ok but needs fixing" even if that's a GROSS OVERSTATEMENT, does not make the person making it magically gain the ability to become amazing in the short period of time actually used for development. Just because you showed the fixes and even added a misleading connotation to it (the "ok" part, especially if it really isn't), doesn't mean it will, or even can get better. As a matter of fact, giving a false sense of success will most often give whoever's making it an obligation to ignore any criticism he/she does not care about.

Constructive criticism is judgment and critique. Just judge things fairly, but don't be too easy. It's best if you stay on the stricter side, this way, the bugs are not only noticed, but the person might actually listen. If you say it's "ok" already, then they have no reason to improve because all they were aiming for was "ok".

:|

Both of your responses are not examples of constructive criticism, and both effects are false in correspondence to the responses.

 

[I'll Begin]

Why did I KNOW the original poster was going to say this AS SOON AS I SAW THE TOPIC TITLE?

 

[Princess Plushima]

Constructive critisism should contain information on all that one considers bad, and good. I do wish people would try and mention the good more often though. There's nothing more irritating than all-negative constructive critisism.

That said, you should never try and force yourself to say something good. If you genuinly can't think of anything, then don't mention anything. However bear in mind, that in such a scenario, that pretty much means the project is hopeless, and should be completely abandoned. Such words can have a pretty big impact.

 

[wise.rain]

Constructive critisism should contain information on all that one considers bad, and good. I do wish people would try and mention the good more often though. There's nothing more irritating than all-negative constructive critisism.

When we don't tell people what's good about their wad, their future levels will most likely be worse. You pretty much need to tell them what's good to help them get better. It's sometimes better to tell them what's good, rather than what's bad.

 

[Mystic]

First off, your original examples are not constructive, and it is impossible to "abuse" constructive criticism.

We made it very clear that if you post a WAD here, people will pick it apart and say what they don't like about it. Doing so helps the author determine what parts of his WAD are good and what parts need improvement. This is an essential part of the creative process, and showing your work to others so they can pick it apart is essential if you want to create a quality end product.

For instance, by searching myself, here is an example of a constructive criticism post: http://ssntails.sepwich.com/mb/viewtopic.php?p=219548#219548

I outline exactly what I didn't like about his level pack, and optionally, what I did like. While I prefer to say what I did like about it, it is NOT REQUIRED to do so, especially when someone's WAD is so terrible there isn't anything positive to say about it.

When we don't tell people what's good about their wad, their future levels will most likely be worse. You pretty much need to tell them what's good to help them get better. It's sometimes better to tell them what's good, rather than what's bad.

This, I will note, is completely incorrect. You NEED to tell them what's bad about their WAD. People learn through failure. If you mess up, it's essential to know how you messed up so you don't repeat the same mistake in the future. The best constructive criticism posts explain exactly what you didn't like in detail, and also what you did like. However, just saying what you did like is completely useless feedback to the author without saying what you thought was terrible.

Finally, you consider people canning their projects to be a bad thing that criticism does. Honestly, many projects are bad enough that they SHOULD be canned. Recolors in general should be canned. Level packs with no good level design should either be canned or completely reworked. Without constructive criticism, these people would continue making their terrible WAD, expending a lot of effort into it only to find out later that it was absolutely terrible. It is FAR better for someone to find out early in their development that their work is terrible and should either be completely reworked or thrown out entirely. This saves the author a lot of time and effort, and allows them to start again with a clean slate and more experience and knowledge to try to make something actually good.

 

[Mike_The_Hedgehog]

Well the thing is Constructive Criticism is getting too negative lately when
you are using Constructive Criticism your aiming for beginners to work on the maps and make them presentable. When you say whats good about a map I'm pretty sure that's called Motivation the more the person has the more likely for a good map to come out if I'm right, So,
A map's improvement depends on whats it's Constructive Criticisits have to say about it. or something like that...

 

[super silvex]

?

i agree with this topic, too many people go over the top rather than tell them what to do. yes i am aware that some people do actualy tell people what to do and say if it will work or not, but alot of poeple will just go this fails, or you suck

 

[xxBeanGirl420xx]

Re: ?

but alot of poeple will just go this fails, or you suck

Not true. If you actually READ some of the criticism around here, that rarely happens. Yes, some criticism is generally bad, but it's not every day that you see someone telling another they suck because of their wadding capabilities.

Well the thing is Constructive Criticism is getting too negative lately when
you are using Constructive Criticism your aiming for beginners to work on the maps and make them presentable. When you say whats good about a map I'm pretty sure that's called Motivation the more the person has the more likely for a good map to come out if I'm right, So,
A map's improvement depends on whats it's Constructive Criticisits have to say about it. or something like that...

Still; motivation can only go so far (and according to the way you posted, you don't seem to have that much valid information about the topic you're currently arguing). You can say their wad is amazing, okay, then what? If they think the wad is already amazing, they have no reason to improve it. Ever heard the saying "don't fix what isn't broken"? This is basically what I mean. They can't fix their errors if you only give them the good stuff (or hell, even lie about it). Think rationally: If a person does not have enough knowledge about wadding, how is someone saying "omg ur wad is AWESOME" going to magically make them improve and just, out of nowhere, create greatness? It makes no sense.

 

[Sik]

Besides the constructive criticism people should add phrases for motivation. A lot of people will stop making their WADs if they notice there are a lot of errors, even if they're told how to fix them :/

 

[xxBeanGirl420xx]

That's not anyone else's problem, Sik. They have the choice to follow the input they asked for by submitting their works here. If they don't want to and want to give up, let them. It takes someone who can realize their imperfections in order to fix them properly; it's their own fault if they lack that quality.

"ZOMG NO IT DOESNT SUCK IT TOOK ME 4 WEEKS TO MAKE IT AnD THERE ARE NO ERRORS!!!! I TESTED THIS PERSONALLY AND IT IS PERFECT WITH NO ERRORS I DONT CAER WHAT YOU SAY I AM NOT CHANGING IT!!!!!!"

I've seen that happen a few times, which is far more than anyone should really be susceptible to. :<

 

[Sik]

Which is why sometimes it's better just to post a complete level and then see if there are any errors that can affect gameplay. Leave only a few people to test in development looking for any flaws that may come a big problem later.

:/

 

[Mike_The_Hedgehog]

Yes I know motivation can only go so far, but it's still helpful to use with Constructive Criticism. If theres nothing good about what your commenting don't say it directly just give useful information on how to fix the problems (also Wiki links Aren't as useful as finding out a problem yourself.).
Edit: I Got bored left the web tab for Srb2 and posted too late...

 

[xxBeanGirl420xx]

If theres nothing good about what your commenting don't say it directly

Then what the hell is the point of the criticism? Might as well just say "gj" instead of actually saying something. It's not always possible to give positive criticism, and sometimes it DOES end up being one of those wads that have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. If you can't say it directly, then the criticism is null and void (as in, it doesn't exist).

Hey, Mike, just wondering: Have you actually read what people have been saying in this topic? It's a lot more than just "lol motivation does not guarantee awesomeness". Though I do agree with you on one point; people only giving wiki links and calling it "helping" (especially if this person does it all the time in the Editing Help forum) are only making matters worse.

 

[BlueZero4]

On the subject of "motivation", I think it's really important to state the things I liked in the map. It gives the mapper a sense of satisfaction, especially if it's something that took a lot of work.

Now, the best part about a few compliments is that it lets the mapper know you care. That sets the stage to let the constructive criticism really hit home.

 

[Ice]

Constructive critisism should contain information on all that one considers bad, and good. I do wish people would try and mention the good more often though. There's nothing more irritating than all-negative constructive critisism.

That said, you should never try and force yourself to say something good. If you genuinly can't think of anything, then don't mention anything. However bear in mind, that in such a scenario, that pretty much means the project is hopeless, and should be completely abandoned. Such words can have a pretty big impact.

I agree with Drakon. You need to give direct criticism, yet state what you liked about the map. No use stating the bad if you don't state the good (if any).

As for the arguments going on, most all of them are summed up in Mystic's post. I believe that motivation can help, and so can negative criticism (if not more).

 

[Mystic]

As I already said, negative criticism is absolutely ESSENTIAL to improving as an author. It is simply not possible to see all the problems in your map yourself, and you need other people to play it to find potential issues in it.

The argument on "motivation" is 100% bull. Yes, some people, when faced with a ton of errors and/or problems in their level design, will quit entirely. That is a perfectly acceptable result. Level design follows the following steps:

1. Create level, polish to point of being playable.
2. Hand first draft out to testers.
3. Fix problems testers found.
4. Hand next draft out to testers.
5. If problems still found, fix problems and go back to step 4. Otherwise, continue on.
6. Optimize map, add more visual flair.
7. Release.

If someone is incapable of continuing their project with faced with criticism, they're never going to be able to create awesome levels. Proper testing and feedback is essential towards making good stages. It is better for them if they simply quit when faced with such negative feedback if they aren't interested in improving their work. Some people only like the step 1 and step 7 parts of that process, and that's simply not going to create good maps at all.

I would not be where I currently am right now if it weren't for large quantities of negative criticism. It is completely essential to the map making process.

 

[Scarbo the Black Sheep]

If someone is incapable of continuing their project with faced with criticism, they're never going to be able to create awesome levels. Proper testing and feedback is essential towards making good stages.

I wonder what the feedback was for Dgiku's CTF Mazeathon Zone.