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Old 05-05-2020   #1
Silver Sonic
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Default hiveway - experimenting in Zone Builder, asking for input

I wanted to try Zone Builder and the features of 2.2. So I loaded up some examples and experimented a bit...
I was curious if I could replicate boost gameplay using wind. But I am not content with the result. It feels more like an ostrich drag race or something... but I tried to extend the level beyond that. Evening out vertex slopes is kinda finnicky.

It is far from a complete level and I was wondering if you could give me some suggestions so I could eventually turn this into a complete and more rounded level. I also wondered how I could give it more verticality for example.
I will see if I find time to build new things in.

This has only been tested with Sonic.

For the theme I was thinking about a collapsing highway bridge (behind the player for dramatic effect). As soon as I discovered those hive textures I decided for a hybrid bee hive/modern city theme.
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Last edited by Silver Sonic; 05-26-2020 at 10:23 PM. Reason: added old version for archival reasons
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Old 05-05-2020   #2
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Since you seem to be just beginning with level creation, the first thing I would do is consult the wiki not only for instructions on how to do various effects, but also for tips on what a good level should look like.
https://wiki.srb2.org/wiki/Level_design

Take your time to read through the articles and start applying them to your new level. Here on the forum, feel free to load up the thread with WIP of both the view in Zone Builder and in game (for more useful critique on things like level length and playability).
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Old 05-07-2020   #3
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Thanks, Ace!

In fact, I skimmed my share through the wiki.
I had some ideas on how to extend this level watching some gameplay on youtube.

I think I will remove the wind sector at the beginning and try to create another incentive to push the player forward on their own later.

The things I scribbled in:

I: A leisurely walk with very few enemies.

II: An actual cave like structure resembling a hive. Some challenging but forgiving platforming without deathpits. The actual cave might be a lot bigger as a result than in this scribble.

III: An open plane with large platforms, relieving soft platforming and springs to reach the top cliff.

IV: Potential secret path.

For the theme, I'd like to transition the map more to a more natural shape away from the technology as the player progresses further.

What do you think? I might take my sweet time to implement those changes, though.
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Old 05-08-2020   #4
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good luck on this map! i suggest to you to add more ways to clear the level with harder ones that gives more rewards, making the level fun to play again
also if you are planning on emblems, good luck those are very hard to understand at first
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Old 05-09-2020   #5
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I will take that into consideration :)
Not planning to add emblems for now.
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Old 05-11-2020   #6
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I feel like providing some teaser material. Just so you know, I still work on this from time to time.
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Old 05-12-2020   #7
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Since the level is still in beta its not a problem but remember to put decorations when you will finish it or the level will look empty, weak enemys work too for this
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Old 05-12-2020   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix44 View Post
Since the level is still in beta its not a problem but remember to put decorations when you will finish it or the level will look empty, weak enemys work too for this
You are absolutely right! I just finished removing gameplay bugs. The next thing will be graphical glitches and level theming and appearance.
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Old 05-16-2020   #9
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Default new prototype release

I put a lot of improvements into this one guys!
I would love some feedback :)

New features:
  • extended level
  • secret path
  • new enemy, the red crawla has been replaced by the nefarious green crawla grenadier (credit goes to digitaly for letting me butcher his awesome ev-script)
  • a lot of visual and general fixes
I am particularly interested in feedback on difficulty and level length but feel free to comment on anything!
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Old 05-17-2020   #10
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tested your level, it was good for a first try
the start was a bit easy since you can just run but the pit wasnt easy to recognize as one, you could use the PIT texture for it so its not too unfair, the level was easy but the 3 moving platoforms were not so i just used tails,
the level design is not too bad, even if it doesnt look like a city but the green crawler is a nice idea, the level is also a bit short, but beign act1 and also easy its not a big deal, if you do an act2 make it longer
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Old 05-17-2020   #11
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Thank you so much for testing and providing feedback, felix!

Haha yeah, I intended it to make it look like a suspension bridge and that you could see underneath. However for the time being it might be better to focus on a little extension of the level then pouring all that energy into this much detail, I will use deathpit textures for now.
I am studying some levels to gather inspiration about what could be done about that extension.

About the 3 platforms, I didn't think of them as being too hard and provided some shields nearby hoping they could make things easier. I will think of some more visual guidance so the target won't be overshot that easily.


I am glad you think the design isn't too bad :)
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Old 05-19-2020   #12
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the level seems aliitle too short like really short. and the theme of the level doesnt quite fit as it changes to a grassy feild make sure to put a few details that make it look like a bee hive like adding honeycomb at the sides of the grass (for instance a sidewalk beside a road situation) but at both of the path splits they go to the same place with out much reward for taking harder paths. i sugjest you make these harder paths go to more harder challenges and rewards while a easier path is a more scenic route.

also it would be cool for character paths to be a part of it like a modern sonic path! where you can get to it by lightdash. earlier in the thread you said you wanted a sort of boost gameplay? but i dont expect you to do this. its just a idea.
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Old 05-21-2020   #13
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Well would you look at that, I added a lake extension and added in some suggestions!



Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAUser View Post
the level seems aliitle too short like really short. and the theme of the level doesnt quite fit as it changes to a grassy feild make sure to put a few details that make it look like a bee hive like adding honeycomb at the sides of the grass (for instance a sidewalk beside a road situation) but at both of the path splits they go to the same place with out much reward for taking harder paths. i sugjest you make these harder paths go to more harder challenges and rewards while a easier path is a more scenic route.

also it would be cool for character paths to be a part of it like a modern sonic path! where you can get to it by lightdash. earlier in the thread you said you wanted a sort of boost gameplay? but i dont expect you to do this. its just a idea.
Yeah, the theme has shifted quite a bit from my original idea. For now it is technology to more natural map progression. I kinda like the sidewalk idea. It doesn't however fit to the highway idea I originally had featuring a suspension bridge, kinda hard to pull off anyway. I might add this to a potential act 2 brainstorm, thank you! Maybe I will do a redux version once I think the gameplay is solid.

I added some more goodies on the hard path. I really didn't plan out too diverse routes for this level as I wanted to create a solid experience with Sonic first and foremost. However I might plan out the next one more thoroughly with Tails and Knuckles in mind.

I kinda see the appeal of a modern Sonic path but it would be really a stretch to include paths for custom characters. I think it would make way more sense to plan out the level with a specific custom character in mind if you really wanted to do it otherwise it would just be too convoluted as custom characters are many and subject to change. I like boost gameplay but I've come to the realization that it probably can't be pulled of with level editing alone. I would have to program a whole new gameplay style in Lua and very wide and slopy levels and yet it still wouldn't pop as Srb2 just isn't made for this.

I really appreciate your feedback!
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Old 05-21-2020   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonic View Post
Well would you look at that, I added a lake extension and added in some suggestions!

Yeah, the theme has shifted quite a bit from my original idea. For now it is technology to more natural map progression. I kinda like the sidewalk idea. It doesn't however fit to the highway idea I originally had featuring a suspension bridge, kinda hard to pull off anyway. I might add this to a potential act 2 brainstorm, thank you! Maybe I will do a redux version once I think the gameplay is solid.

I added some more goodies on the hard path. I really didn't plan out too diverse routes for this level as I wanted to create a solid experience with Sonic first and foremost. However I might plan out the next one more thoroughly with Tails and Knuckles in mind.

I kinda see the appeal of a modern Sonic path but it would be really a stretch to include paths for custom characters. I think it would make way more sense to plan out the level with a specific custom character in mind if you really wanted to do it otherwise it would just be too convoluted as custom characters are many and subject to change. I like boost gameplay but I've come to the realization that it probably can't be pulled of with level editing alone. I would have to program a whole new gameplay style in Lua and very wide and slopy levels and yet it still wouldn't pop as Srb2 just isn't made for this.

I really appreciate your feedback!
Wow This would hopefully get into releases! And the main game has some paths you can take with differnet characters but they didnt feel as cool. hope to see this!
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Old 05-24-2020   #15
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Well, back to the drawing board.
https://mb.srb2.org/showpost.php?p=824054&postcount=8

I will try to implement the improvements to act 1 every now and then while pondering about my sketch for act 2.

Overall concept for the theme is reversing the theme of act 1. Going from natural to industrial.



I: Downward slope with ramp at the end
II: Floating island looking plattforms to ascend / partly industrial themed
III: Potential Knuckles secret up high
IV: River flowing west
V: Bridge crossing the river
VI: Natural path merging into road structures
VII: Dead end road with optional goodies
VIII: This is a highway
IX: A bridge across the highway
X: Eggman's base
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Old 05-25-2020   #16
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act 2 looks nice, will there be an act 3 with a boss?
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Old 05-25-2020   #17
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Quote:
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act 2 looks nice, will there be an act 3 with a boss?
Glad you approve my scribble!
There will still be lots of improvements to be applied to act 1 before I even start.

Act 3, yeah about that... strange images of a bee themed Eggman emerging from a pool of honey keep reappearing in my head. I think some screws might have come loose...
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Old 05-25-2020   #18
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Preview of improved act 1.

Grenadier crawlas now have a random firing skew. Textures still need to be addressed.
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Old 05-26-2020   #19
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something you should notice are the rooms, they are big, but some ones could feel empty, you could do them smaller or make them look less empty somehow, also remember that doing too big maps can make the game break and cause grapichal bugs
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Old 05-26-2020   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix44 View Post
something you should notice are the rooms, they are big, but some ones could feel empty, you could do them smaller or make them look less empty somehow, also remember that doing too big maps can make the game break and cause grapichal bugs

That is interesting, I know of that moiré glitch. I was afraid my map might get too cramped when I started, thank you for the hint.


I released the improved version 1.1 of act 1.
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