SRB2 Message Board  

Go Back   SRB2 Message Board > Archived > SRB2 Forum Archives > Bug Reports (2.1.X)

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-12-2016   #21
Mystic
チェン!
Administrator
 
Mystic's Avatar
Default

Now, I don't care remotely about this matter, but glaber, if you really find the new setup that problematic, explain what you're trying to do that this setup does not allow you to do. All I see here is a change to texture pegging and a new way to do the old behavior. What's the problem here at all?
Mystic is offline  
Old 06-12-2016   #22
Monster Iestyn
Friendly Neighbour-Hood
Moderator
 
Monster Iestyn's Avatar
Default

Aside from whatever the exact issue is glaber is trying to bring up, there IS the matter of texture alignment in vanilla SRB2's levels themselves. How broken did it get when the behavior was changed for 2.1.15? More to the point did any custom levels get their texture alignments messed up as a result of this? This is kind of a backwards compatibility issue, this is not the sort of thing that SHOULD change for a patch to 2.1, whether it be easier or not to some people.

Now, if there IS an issue that should be noted, it's that Lower Unpegged now aligned with the lower floor instead of the higher ceiling breaks (or at least makes harder) the possibility of making a bottom and top copy of the same texture align together such that if the gap between was filled with the same texture it would tile seamlessly. It'd be easier to explain with an image to be fair though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glaber View Post
But due to SRB2's Max speed, we normally can't uses these linedefs as sonic can just thok right through them into the void of endless mass.
Actually this is shouldn't be the case anymore, the main issues regarding going through such walls were fixed. Also, MAXMOVE has since been removed anyway.
__________________
My page stuffed full of MIDI goodness!
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Robo-Hoodiverse
Timeline of Sonic Robo Blast History!

That's an uppercase i, not a lowercase L, for the record. Also, it's pronounced "Yes-tin".

Last edited by Monster Iestyn; 06-12-2016 at 01:04 PM.
Monster Iestyn is offline  
Old 06-12-2016   #23
Shadow Hog
 
Shadow Hog's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
Now, I don't care remotely about this matter, but glaber, if you really find the new setup that problematic, explain what you're trying to do that this setup does not allow you to do. All I see here is a change to texture pegging and a new way to do the old behavior. What's the problem here at all?
The problem I have with it is that it now no longer lines up with the expected behavior of every other Doom-engine title out there. YMMV on how major that is, but it'll probably be nagging at me for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwip-Zwap Zapony View Post
No, but if "the new behaviour" of Lower Unpegged is sticking the texture to the lower floor, that's a good thing. Now, instead of having to see "alright, how far up to the ceiling, what's the height of this wall, got it, now which do I minus with which", now people just have to see "alright, got it". If you want to align something, just, I don't know, move the texture vertically by however much the floor has changed? Or just don't use Lower Unpegged?
You're overthinking this a tad. Unpegging really only becomes useful if you can't align both the Upper and Lower textures the same way, or are feeling too lazy to do much alignment yourself and expect unpegging to do the vertical bit of it for you (Lord know that latter one's been me, numerous times over - texture alignment is tedious).

Beyond that, go into Visual Mode, click vertically-misaligned texture, click adjacent correctly-vertically-aligned texture, hit Shift-A while focusing on the correctly-aligned linedef, done.
Shadow Hog is offline  
Old 06-12-2016   #24
glaber
Emblem Radar Ready
 
glaber's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
Now, I don't care remotely about this matter, but glaber, if you really find the new setup that problematic, explain what you're trying to do that this setup does not allow you to do. All I see here is a change to texture pegging and a new way to do the old behavior. What's the problem here at all?
Ok, if you remember how lower unpegged worked in Doom and older versions of SRB2, it drew the lower texture from the highest floor down, and the mid texture from the highest floor up. When it worked this way I could attach the mid texture to the ground and have the walls next to it align right.
The only real alignment problems I encountered before were with the upper textures on the outside of tunnels using this flag. However, those problems were not only minimal, but manageable too as it could be worked around by adjusting the inner sector's ceiling so the outer upper texture would be aligned with the other wall textures to either side.

With this new behavior I now have to make the floor in front of lines with the lower unpegged tag flat and even. I can't make stairs next to them without them being certain heights or even use slopes next to them without messing up the lower texture for the same reason.

I hate to say this, but while I thought the old behavior was still in there, it's not. Peg Midtexture does not work the way lower unpegged did as it only changes where the midtexture is drawn from without affecting the lower or upper textures.

This actually is not a backwards compatibility issue, it's a level design one!
Let me show a few other spots of my map that are affected. In all my examples I was trying to get my textures aligned with the GFZGRASS texture on the ground.
All from 2.1.15, in software mode, using lower unpegged
Spoiler: Custom map Emerald Flower


This one has an fof's texture affected. (The fof is part of the wall due to using vertex slopes) So this one happened after I put in the slopes.





The only solution I can even figure out is to move to even out the floor right up against the affected wall. Some spots don't even look right with peg midtexture because they're sloped walls and start drawing from a different height. (Such as my jump ramp)

Now I suppose my level alone is not enough, so how about some more examples, but from vanilla SRB2?
Spoiler: SRB2 Official maps 2.1.15

Green Flower








I got way too many pictures from Green Flower alone. but what they're showing is that all the lower textures on lines with lower unpegged being drawn from the lowest floor up, are now harder to align than upper textures with uneven ceilings


I should note, no one has even shown even a single screen shot where this new behavior is an improvement. the only person I've seen come up with a solution that makes sence is RedEnchilada

I also grabbed screen shots from Mystic Realm. that mod was affected too.
Spoiler: Mystic Realm Jade Coast




__________________
Welcome to my Dimension
glaber is offline  
Old 06-12-2016   #25
Kaysakado
Default

Glaber, posting images from maps that haven't been updated to reflect the new behavior of Lower Unpegged means...... literally nothing? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with those GFZ and JCZ screenshots. I think what you're pointing out in general, though, is that the change makes it more difficult to line up textures when the lower floor is uneven. But it doesn't, because the default behavior without Lower Unpegged makes it the texture attach to the upper floor, which in the majority of your screenshots IS even. When both floors are uneven, well... that's what the Y offset is for.

The only situation where the old system would be useful for this particular problem is when both floors are uneven, and the lower ceiling is even. But it's completely unintuitive (at least imo) to have a lower texture attach to a ceiling that it's not even touching. Not to mention that the behavior is now equivelant to Upper Unpegged. Even if the new system made things a little harder (which I still don't think it does) it makes things much easier to understand.
Kaysakado is offline  
Old 06-12-2016   #26
glaber
Emblem Radar Ready
 
glaber's Avatar
Default

Have you used it?

How are we even suppose to update our maps for this?! My custom one, Emerald Lake, is actually in the process of being updated and it's because of that process that I discovered this problem!


Have you even mapped for a previous version of SRB2 or DOOM?
__________________
Welcome to my Dimension

Last edited by glaber; 06-12-2016 at 11:38 PM.
glaber is offline  
Old 06-12-2016   #27
fickleheart
ms reflec beat stan
 
fickleheart's Avatar
Default

By using the Peg Midtexture flag where appropriate instead. You know, the flag that was made to snap midtextures to the bottom of a wall without affecting the lower texture.
__________________
hubris.
fickleheart is offline  
Old 06-13-2016   #28
glaber
Emblem Radar Ready
 
glaber's Avatar
Default

Let me show you a wall that can't be fixed with peg midtexture.

This is from Zone builder. the current version used the old behavior of the lower unpegged flag. The line on the left of the tunnel uses the old behavior of lower unpegged. the right one used peg midtexture. The walls on either side of them have a vertical offset of 0. the front sector has and even floor and ceiling, and the back sector also has a even floor and ceiling against the line.

Here's that same wall in 2.1.15 software

the left line now displays 2.1.15's behavior, and the right now has a manual offset of -640, the height of the sector behind the line inside the tunnel. there is no change in the x offset.


Also here's my experimental map where I got some of the screen shots if anyone cares.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/epxk185wwi...peggy.wad?dl=0
Feel free to experiment with it or otherwise prove me wrong and show me that we don't need the old behavior at all.

I'm very sure this texture alignment issue will pop up in the various custom maps in the future. I'll be keeping an eye on the level releases.

the only thing I can suggest is to add another flag the used the old behavior.
__________________
Welcome to my Dimension
glaber is offline  
Old 06-13-2016   #29
Kaysakado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glaber View Post
Also here's my experimental map where I got some of the screen shots if anyone cares.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/epxk185wwi...peggy.wad?dl=0
Feel free to experiment with it or otherwise prove me wrong and show me that we don't need the old behavior at all.
Here's what I'm seeing:

2.1.14: Groups 1, 3, and 5 all work simply by adding Lower Unpegged. 2, 4, and 6 do not.

2.1.15: Groups 1, 3, and 6 all work simply by adding Lower Unpegged. 2, 4, and 5 do not.

I fucked around a little and couldn't get 2 or 4 to render correctly using either method. And I couldn't get 6 to work under the old system or 5 to work under the new one.

Then I realized I don't give a single shit about any of this. DOOM has had rendering limitations since 1993. Maybe you should look into Linedef Type 222.
Kaysakado is offline  
Old 06-13-2016   #30
toaster
トースタちゃん
 
toaster's Avatar
Default

FOFs use the y offset of the control linedef and the x offset of the in-map lines, so that sounds like a good idea for the manufactured scenario Glaber has created.

We can't add more flags because all our flags do things on in-map linedefs. Except Transfer Line, but that would have the dubious honour of messing up the alignment on the already broken transferred FOF.
__________________
Quote:
<fickle> giant robo-hood that rips the map apart with her bare hands
shameless plug: please check out my sonic mania lego ideas project, it could become a real thing if yalls support it
toaster is offline  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.