Techno Legacy is bad?

Conceptually, it certainly is a good way to showcase the game's lengthy history, but I do not think that excuses the levels' subpar quality one bit. I would rather have an enjoyable regular old bonus level than something of purely historical interest.
Or just put a "thank you" picture and jingle like in Mario Sunshine and call it a day.
 
This might be a bit of a controversial opinion but honestly I think a better reward would be a touched up version of the final demo Castle Eggman Zone with a new name, slopes, better textures, that kind of thing. The "button hunt" formula for level progression might not have much of a place in the main campaign, but I think those two levels as a bonus unlockable zone would be pretty cool as a reward. I don't actually expect it to happen though, especially since we already have a CEZ themed level to unlock.

In regards to Techno Legacy specifically, I don't hate it but I would prefer that if they are going to go for a nostalgia unlockable like that, either overhaul it to feel more like it belongs with the rest of the game or keep it just like how it was so that it's properly nostalgic and doesn't feel "wrong". The problem here with Techno Legacy is that it's is changed just enough to feel more like a crappy edit submitted by some kid as their "first map" after altering the old THZ2 for 5 minutes rather than a proper historical homage to the act.

I can understand the thought process behind making the chemicals a different color at least, so that players who didn't play the original stage don't accidentally jump in and hurt themselves thinking it's like the newer goo that makes you bounce. But at least give back the original enemy placements, that one emblem that requires going into the chemicals to get into the pipe, and change the barrels to look like they have green chemicals in them instead of purple.

Alternatively, if you are willing to put in the extra effort, give the act the proper touch up treatment. Add some slopes, implement some better textures, maybe change the shape of the rooms and hallways a bit, spice up the enemy placements and add some of the newer enemies in where they feel appropriate, place some pipes along the walls, etc. Overall make it feel like the old THZ2 layout made under the newer design standards. That would make Legacy feel more like a proper reward.
 
This might be a bit of a controversial opinion but honestly I think a better reward would be a touched up version of the final demo Castle Eggman Zone with a new name, slopes, better textures, that kind of thing. The "button hunt" formula for level progression might not have much of a place in the main campaign, but I think those two levels as a bonus unlockable zone would be pretty cool as a reward. I don't actually expect it to happen though, especially since we already have a CEZ themed level to unlock.

In regards to Techno Legacy specifically, I don't hate it but I would prefer that if they are going to go for a nostalgia unlockable like that, either overhaul it to feel more like it belongs with the rest of the game or keep it just like how it was so that it's properly nostalgic and doesn't feel "wrong". The problem here with Techno Legacy is that it's is changed just enough to feel more like a crappy edit submitted by some kid as their "first map" after altering the old THZ2 for 5 minutes rather than a proper historical homage to the act.

I can understand the thought process behind making the chemicals a different color at least, so that players who didn't play the original stage don't accidentally jump in and hurt themselves thinking it's like the newer goo that makes you bounce. But at least give back the original enemy placements, that one emblem that requires going into the chemicals to get into the pipe, and change the barrels to look like they have green chemicals in them instead of purple.

Alternatively, if you are willing to put in the extra effort, give the act the proper touch up treatment. Add some slopes, implement some better textures, maybe change the shape of the rooms and hallways a bit, spice up the enemy placements and add some of the newer enemies in where they feel appropriate, place some pipes along the walls, etc. Overall make it feel like the old THZ2 layout made under the newer design standards. That would make Legacy feel more like a proper reward.
In another way you want something like Forest Fortress?
 
In another way you want something like Forest Fortress?

In the sense of being a CEZ styled bonus zone, sure. A revamp of the final demo CEZ would be something a bit more than that though. It would have the same sort of nostalgia value that TLZ was shooting for, but would also feature the button hunt style of level progression. Specifically, when I mention the button hunt style I'm referring moreso to Act 2, in which you need to hunt down more than one button unlock the path to the end sign, as opposed to Act 1 and TLC in which just one button unlocks the ending.

There's not really anything like that in vanilla SRB2 anymore. The thing where you need one button to progress somewhat still exists in ERZ, though broken up into sections rather than the entire level being based around it. Pressing multiple buttons to unlock a single door however no longer is really a thing, and I think a bonus unlockable zone would be the perfect place to put this style of progression.
 
As someone that didn't start playing until 2.0, I rather like Final Demo Zone outside of the mazelike bits in Castle Eggman. It's fairly easy to compare Greenflower and Techno Hill to their modern counterparts, and it's easier to appreciate how well designed obstacles are in 2.2 when one sees the Crawla army origins.
 
I just tried out Final Demo Zone myself and, speaking as someone who didn't play SRB2 until 2.2 came out, I think it would be a TERRIBLE idea to make it an unlockable. ... I think that having them all combined as an unlockable would not suit itself well to anyone who didn't play the old versions of the levels.

This is really insightful. Having grown up on SRB2 (well, minus my past ten-year hiatus), I got a huge kick out of Final Demo Zone, but I can definitely understand that not everyone would.

Though, my personal preference would be to bulk up the bonus levels to have a huge amount of content. If there were more bonus levels, I think that the awkwardness of Final Demo Zone would be diluted.
 
This is really insightful. Having grown up on SRB2 (well, minus my past ten-year hiatus), I got a huge kick out of Final Demo Zone, but I can definitely understand that not everyone would.

Though, my personal preference would be to bulk up the bonus levels to have a huge amount of content. If there were more bonus levels, I think that the awkwardness of Final Demo Zone would be diluted.
I'm glad you found my thoughts on Final Demo Zone insightful. I personally find it very insightful to see how many people seem to enjoy the zone much more than I do. It's very interesting to compare the thoughts of those who grew up with old versions of SRB2 against those who didn't.

Length is actually not a complaint I have with Final Demo Zone. It's six short levels strung into one, which is basically like one medium-long level. A big issue I have with Final Demo Zone is that its levels severely lack interesting content, which would probably become an even bigger issue should the bonus levels be beefed up. Every Final Demo level feels so barren compared to what we have today; it's always a bunch of crawlas spread across monotonous areas of land where each and every room looks the same. At least, that's definitely how it comes across to me.
 
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As someone who grew up playing the Final Demo versions of SRB2, I will be rather blunt: The level design of those zones is atrocious. I honestly don't blame anyone a bit newer to the SRB2 scene in not getting the appeal, as the appeal to those levels is at least for me strictly nostalgia. If you never played them before, the nostalgia value won't exist for you, and so all you are left with is crap level design barely worth playing.

I do think that reworking and modernizing some of the levels with more current standards might help remedy that, however.
 
As someone who started to play at 2.1, I can't actually appreciate the nostalgic value of TLZ, but as someone who loves to borrow into a game's dev history, I kind of like the thing
But having played the true port of 2.0's THZ2 featured in SRB2Hub, I think that TLZ is a bad attempt to bring that old thing back
 
What time is it? Why, it's STUPID IDEA TIME!

Why not replace Techno Legacy with Demo 2 THZ1(y'know, the one with the fans at the end)?
 
As someone who grew up playing the Final Demo versions of SRB2, I will be rather blunt: The level design of those zones is atrocious. I honestly don't blame anyone a bit newer to the SRB2 scene in not getting the appeal, as the appeal to those levels is at least for me strictly nostalgia. If you never played them before, the nostalgia value won't exist for you, and so all you are left with is crap level design barely worth playing.

I was gonna come into the topic and post the same thing! When I first played it (admittedly through one of the multiplayer servers, I haven't actually unlocked it yet!), I was greeted with such a strong nostalgia. But honestly, the level design has not aged well...

I have a rather controversial set of suggestions for replacing TLZ in future versions of the game:
  • Remove the "Challenge Levels" entirely, as hardly anyone enjoys playing AGZ and ATZ due to their level design.
  • Make Haunted Heights Zone the new unlock for 100 emblems.
  • Maybe also add a "Champions Road" like level for ~150 emblems?
 
Something of the length and style of Final Demo Zone but with actual level design and real difficulty would be fantastic to see, for sure.
 
here i come with my bad ideas again
i think if were to keep the 'old version of srb2 as an unlockable' idea, maybe re-creating an old version of a level to fit more into the current srb2 style, without completely redesigning it, would be interesting.... but i dont really recall any good levels for that. the most iconic would be castle eggman, but we already have an 'old version' of CEZ as an unlockable in FFZ. my second bet would be in the really older versions of DSZ, like demo-era, but at that time DSZ was JUST a huge maze of walls with nothing interesting, so itd be hard to recreate it without making it look completely different.
you could also argue that maybe bringing back the old, currently-unavailable levels could fit, but rocky mountain is already referenced in the tutorial, and im pretty sure dark city and doomsday ship are planned to make a return. also [insert comment about bringing back mine maze zone here]


really, im at a loss. i think the best thing to do is to just ditch the 'old version(s) of levels' idea and just make an entirely new zone for an unlockable.
 
I don't really mind Techno Legacy but I was extremely Disappointed when I finally got 100 Emblems and I Unlocked that. I would be fine If I Unlocked it at like 30 Emblems or Something Similar to that.
 
Techno Legacy Zone was intended as a callback to previous versions, so they probably could've went with any of the unlockable stages. Perhaps TLZ could work better if it was given a bit of a makeover or straightup remaster? I mean, I've been speedrunning the stage since I first played the game. I can beat it in under 50 seconds.
 
Techno Legacy Zone was intended as a callback to previous versions, so they probably could've went with any of the unlockable stages. Perhaps TLZ could work better if it was given a bit of a makeover or straightup remaster? I mean, I've been speedrunning the stage since I first played the game. I can beat it in under 50 seconds.
Why did you bring up that discussion? Especially for saying something that has already been said.

Also good for you if you speedrun it but remastering or doing a makeover would defeat the main intent of the stage.
 
I just think that Techno Legacy doesn't fit quite well for 2.2. I mean it's just looks really outdated... If it was like a make over of like uh ... a 2.2 style instead than just a port, It would have be better
 
How dare you say Techno Legacy sucks... (I'm just joking please don't take this seriously)

Anyways, I get where your going with the "Its not worth getting 100 emblems" but to me it is, Techno Legacy is that type of short and sweet level and is very fun which is why its my background lol. While techno hill 2 (for 2.1/2.2.+) is a very long level and most of the time must make stops to get to proceed. Also I like how they made the gloop Into acid, the gloop is already used purple so they tweaked it so it makes more sense. Going on your side for a little though, when it comes to competition/race mode Techno Legacy is the worst to be chosen... everyone will just skip the button and wait at the platform. And the worst part is that characters that can pick others up will just unfairly throw them to the acid.

So... Techno legacy just has it's ups and downs but for me this has to be the best stage!
 

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