SRB2 Message Board  

Go Back   SRB2 Message Board > Sonic Robo Blast 2 > SRB2 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #1
SkittleDude60
 
SkittleDude60's Avatar
Default Knuckles revamp discussion

To me, I feel like knuckles needs the most revamp out of everyone, he's probably the least fun and least interesting character imo. Xmomentum by Frostiikin's minor change to knuckles's glide cancel really makes him a lot more fun.
Also Knuckles's paths are not interesting and they're less fun than the normal paths, most of them are just "Climb this wall" and "Glide from point A to B.", most of this makes knuckles not nearly as fun as the other spin characters.
But what would we even do to revamp knuckles and still make him feel like knuckles? I'd love to hear some ideas
__________________
I am very cool
SkittleDude60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #2
Pyrakid Wolfo
 
Pyrakid Wolfo's Avatar
Default

Clearly multiglide is the best option. It allows Knuckles more movement and makes using glide free. Being able to chain glides, and being able to use glide more than once in midair would clearly make him a good character. :moyai:
__________________
The man who's made 10 HUD mods with a small amount of installs and comments.
Pyrakid Wolfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #3
CobaltBW
Community Noise Maker
Developer
 
CobaltBW's Avatar
Default

Knuckles feels pretty solid IMO. The main objective of the 2.2 redesign was to make Knuckles as faithful to his S&K iteration as possible (with minor improvements), and Lach did an impeccable job on this.

I like the fact that Knuckles has more weight to him, but I realize that some of the mechanics in place to facilitate this have certain implications when it comes to speedrunning and momentum. It may be worthwhile to give him more options, for example allowing him to keep his momentum on landing by holding the spin key. The glide momentum cut is also a carryover from the classics but is partially necessary to make it easier for him to land on platforms. Though, if general air momentum physics were to be improved, then this might not be as necessary.
__________________
~CobaltBW

Check out my soundcloud profile for music stuff
CobaltBW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #4
Pyrakid Wolfo
 
Pyrakid Wolfo's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobaltBW View Post
Knuckles feels pretty solid IMO. The main objective of the 2.2 redesign was to make Knuckles as faithful to his S&K iteration as possible (with minor improvements), and Lach did an impeccable job on this.
S&K overrated this is supposed to be better than the classics anyway. Plus this is a 3D game, 3D doesn't perfectly transition into 3D, we need more we all deep down know i'm right. :moyai:
__________________
The man who's made 10 HUD mods with a small amount of installs and comments.
Pyrakid Wolfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #5
time gear
 
time gear's Avatar
Default

Perhaps Knuckles could have a slight height boost compared to other characters when bouncing off badniks/monitors? Could be an interesting tradeoff for his reduced jump height, encouraging skillful bounce play to gain height and then using that height to glide over gaps and potential hazards.

As for Multiglide, I generally prefer the idea of it being restricted to Super Knuckles. This allows Super Knuckles to feel like more of a power improvement, and makes base Knuckles more committal with his glide cancels.
time gear is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #6
Snowy
PersistantRubine
 
Snowy's Avatar
Default

A big thing that his crouch does is prevent players from spamming the glide relentlessly, and it encourages using normal jumps to maintain speed over gaps rather than being able to basically just have a better thok, because unfortunately that's all it is when there's no punishment- a thok that isn't as fast but is controllable and lets you skip over more platforming. Without the crouch Knuckles feels... just... wrong, in my opinion. Even back in 2.1 when he didn't have the crouch I very much never played him compared to Sonic or Tails because he never felt right to me, but now that he has the crouch he feels... fine? I don't know why or how, but it just makes him more satisfying to land from a glide with.

Multi-glide I guess could work for knuckles, but at the same time it makes his glide, which is already pretty strong, even stronger. I don't think this is needed, but I do think he could have more methods of moving if he MUST have something- though personally I think he's just right given how much movement he already has via the wall-climb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrakid Wolfo View Post
S&K overrated this is supposed to be better than the classics anyway. Plus this is a 3D game, 3D doesn't perfectly transition into 3D, we need more we all deep down know i'm right. :moyai:
I don't think anyone ever said srb2 is supposed to be better than the classics, and deep down I think you're wrong. Let's not claim everyone's thoughts are the same as yours 'deep down'- I don't think you're enforcing your opinion as fact but that's how it's reading.
Not to mention Knuckles needs the 'nerf' even MORE in 3d because there's more direction to go, more options to choose, and thusly more methods to go fast and more methods to break the stage.

I think Knuckles is in a fine place right now, maybe some minor tweaks could be done overall, but really, he doesn't need a revamp or overhaul like some people seem to think he does, in my opinion. Maybe I'd make his glide a bit faster but that's about it.
__________________
TOGETHER we can show the world what we can do!
You are giving me a little mania!
Snowy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #7
cookiefonster
Wiki Admin
 
cookiefonster's Avatar
Default

I think Knuckles got a good revamp from 2.1 to 2.2 already, plus a few adjustments in 2.2.5. The glide now scales with momentum, and smoothly adjusts with the camera as well. It's also nice that you can move the camera while climbing now, rather than being stuck looking at the wall. I'd also like to note that the current state of the crouch (as of 2.2.5) seems to me like a reasonable balance between preventing the glide from being too overpowered and keeping it fluid.
__________________
I'm currently working on making 8-bit covers of the entire 2.2 soundtrack. Here are all the special stage themes!
cookiefonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #8
Pyrakid Wolfo
 
Pyrakid Wolfo's Avatar
Default

for clarification, moyai is an emote used to portray sarcasm.
__________________
The man who's made 10 HUD mods with a small amount of installs and comments.
Pyrakid Wolfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #9
Spiky
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkittleDude60 View Post
To me, I feel like knuckles needs the most revamp out of everyone, he's probably the least fun and least interesting character imo. Xmomentum by Frostiikin's minor change to knuckles's glide cancel really makes him a lot more fun.
Also Knuckles's paths are not interesting and they're less fun than the normal paths, most of them are just "Climb this wall" and "Glide from point A to B.", most of this makes knuckles not nearly as fun as the other spin characters.
But what would we even do to revamp knuckles and still make him feel like knuckles? I'd love to hear some ideas
Seriously? Knuckles is literally my favorite character to play as. Gliding and climbing is awesome and I'm glad the level design takes advantage of his abilities.

The only thing I would change about him is making him less prone to un-grabbing angled walls if possible, and giving him multiglide. The lack of multiglide is more acceptable in the 2d games, as falling from a glide usually results in you landing somewhere. But SRB2 is generally less forgiving, with its abundance of bottomless pits and hazards.

Last edited by Spiky; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:27 PM.
Spiky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #10
GrayAngel
 
GrayAngel's Avatar
Default

Speaking as a Knuckles main, I think he's fine as is. It's hard for me to think of ways that would make him better, other than, as Spiky said, making it so he doesn't fall off angled walls. But I'm not sure if even that's feasible. He basically feels like S3&K Knuckles in 3D, which is how I like it. I mean, if you're going to change it so much that he no longer feels like Knuckles, he might as well be some other character, IMO.
GrayAngel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #11
MK.exe
The one and only!
 
MK.exe's Avatar
Default

Yeah knuckles is very solid. As a strong guy with concrete/rock breaking knuckles i'd expect them to have some weight and feel slow to other characters.

Feeling slow isnt exactly great but with the new slope physics in 2.3 coming, that would just make him even better imo
__________________
Benny Harvey R.I.P.
MK.exe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #12
Goldenhog
Wandering Protagonist
 
Goldenhog's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrakid Wolfo View Post
S&K overrated
lmao

I think Knuckles is 100% fine as he is right now. The momentum-eating that he has when cancelling a glide and landing are necessary to help him feel like a distinct character from Sonic (you know, he feels heavy), as well as to ensure he's not faster than Sonic despite being more capable. And it makes him feel less slide-y than Sonic, which is appropiate for a character more focused on platforming than speed. While I agree that that feature was overtuned in 2.2.0, that is no longer the case and Knuckles feels awesome to control in my opinion.

Giving Super Knux the spidey-glide is just about the only change I'd be in favor of.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asagi Asagiri
I need power over the people! The stupid, STUPID people!
Goldenhog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #13
LunickTMM
 
LunickTMM's Avatar
Default

As someone who has been speed running Knuckles since 2.2 came out, I feel I have a lot of strong thoughts on this.

First, I feel 2.2.5 was an amazing way of improving Knuckles for newer players. A lot of the other runners actually gave Knuckles a real try, as they said he felt less clunky. The only addition from here is I wish gliding in the air was changed to replicate the swimming. It's fairly jarring to go from gliding to swimming, as movement is radically different. This would also make turning in the air a lot easier.

As for the rest of his kit, Knuckles has two weaknesses that hurt his speedrunning viability: Jump Height and canceling the glide. Both of these aspects I know will never change, and don't really need to change. Jump height really does make a lot of platforming a lot slower, however removing it would make him more vanilla and less unique. And for canceling a glide, it does make him rather slow, it gives him a unique niche of being the only spin character who can stop on a dime to charge a spin dash.

That being said, something I wish for Knuckles would be anything to preserve momentum out of a glide. Cobalt already mentioned, but being able to hold spin while falling to transition into a roll would be a huge boost to Knuckles.

And for those asking for Knuckles to go higher off monitor bounces, you can actually achieve this with gliding already if you attempt to bounce off a monitor/badnik and press glide jump before. You get some serious height depending on how high you were to start.
__________________
I speed run SRB2 with Knuckles and Fang.

You can check out my stuff here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT0...Geugm9XYS7coCw
LunickTMM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #14
azoo
 
azoo's Avatar
Default

Pressing back while gliding has always felt weird because Knuckles turns a full 180. What if instead, it lifted Knuckles up a little bit for extra height while canceling his glide and killing most of his air speed / control?

It'd reminiscent of how gliding is for Ray (although heavily nerfed), and would give you the ability to ascend higher than Knuckles can usually, although with a difficulty curve.
azoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.