Could a "Doomsday Zone" like stage work in SRB2?

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by OP345

No one said anything about STJ being forbidden from using him. I just expressed my opinion that I would personally prefer not for Metal Sonic to be the final boss of SRB2 when Metal Sonic is already overused as it is both in other fangames and is already a boss in SRB2. I don't understand your point about Sega not using him; he's literally a staple of the series and Sega uses him all the time.

And it's not like your opinion on this is more valid than mine. This thread is just speculation and idea throwing anyways. I'd prefer if Metal Sonic wasn't a final boss when he is already boss and is already overused as it is. Forgive me for wanting something unique and creative.

I see it but let's be honest, for me Sega has just ruined Metal Sonic as a cool character (he's just... being there).


Having a final boss that isn't Robotnik nor Metal Sonic would make it hard to be memorable (but it's not impossible).




At the end let's just wait for Grand Eggship and Dark City to come into SRB2 without having to think about it.


PS: I would suggest to keep this thread a bit less in a "what if..." stance because of the updated forum rules

[ManuelRome]

Originally Posted by Icarus

PS: I would suggest to keep this thread a bit less in a "what if..." stance because of the updated forum rules

Yeah, I read the new rules, and I think it will be fine as long as this remains an actual discussion topic and not any weird requests or pipe dream.

That being said, if the mods see this thread as a "hidden mod request" or something that fills the criteria of a "what if" thread, then I don't mind if they decide to shut it down so it doesn't become about people just asking for stuff that would never make it to SRB2.

[ClassicNC]

I have a story for a super sonic level in srb2 that also has to do with metal sonic. Some stuff would only make sense if you watched the ova before.
After defeating Brak, the eggrock is gonna blow. Sonic and co make their way to a shuttle, only for sonic to hear these cries for help only he can hear. It was metal sonic. Sonic couldn't just leave him to rust, could he? Sonic, knowing full well what would happen if he fails, takes of with the chaos emeralds to look for metal sonic, with tails and knuckles getting sent to mobius without him. Sonic eventually finds metal and tries to help the robot the best he can. Unfortunately, the eggrock is collapsing, so sonic has to think fast. Fortunately, he has the chaos emeralds with him, and goes super sonic. Metal gets a reaction to the emeralds as well, and goes super as well. Together, the sonics try to escape the eggrock. The level will consist of super sonic and super metal trying to avoid boulders and large chunks of iron, and try to head back to the planet below.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by OP345

I would rather put in effort to make a good unique final boss than rehash Metal Sonic again. To be completely honest, I wouldn't have put him in the first place. That, or I would've given him a different design to make him unique (possibly take inspiration from Sonic X-treme's Metal Sonic designs).

SRB2 is more about keeping stuff close to their canon counterpart (like Brak's design being like the OVA one rather than being a Death Egg Robot reskin).


As for the final boss it should probably be Robotnik rather than some new character that came from nowhere.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by OP345

Who is anyone to say what SRB2 is about? How many times has this project shifted hands or gone in different directions? Tons of times! Why not create something new? What's stopping them? Taking inspiration from different sources isn't the same as "keeping close to canon". The Sonic canon is a shitshow anyways why should STJ follow it at all?

I meant a unique final boss not a unique character.

the thing is that adding a new final boss out of nowhere would make it a OC (because a boss is technically a character to a certain extend, like the Egg Dragoon which became a staple in the series).


One thing I love about SRB2 is the fact it feels like a refreshing game without sounding too much like a fan-fiction (something that sadly some fan-game suffers from).


Also the "story" of the game is made so it could actually fit with Sonic 3 & Knuckles, CD and Mania without having any conflicting element.


Finally the Zones in the game are pretty close to actual Sonic levels in design while being refreshing (Castle Eggman and Arid Canyon being good examples).

[ManuelRome]

Originally Posted by Icarus

the thing is that adding a new final boss out of nowhere would make it a OC (because a boss is technically a character to a certain extend, like the Egg Dragoon which became a staple in the series).

I disagree on this, mostly because, the actual final boss of SRB2 is not even canon, it's based on the OVA, and neither are all of the badniks, and I think the original badniks have been a staple of the Sonic franchise as well, yet they are completely new ones here.

Having a new boss, as in, a new robot for Eggman to be the final boss, wouldn't mess with the continuity of the game, assuming that it is meant to be a part of the Classic Sonic story. Eggman has lots of robots, including final bosses of classic games, that were never mentioned in any other games, so having a new robot be the final boss wouldn't make any conflict with the story.

[Jona]

Originally Posted by OP345

You don't need to even care about conflict with the rest of the continuity. The continuity is bullshit. The Classic Sonic-Modern Sonic distinction is stupid. SRB2 is already "fan-fiction" or an "OC" given how it's a literal fan-game with new badniks, things taken directly from the OVA, and levels.

This.

If anything, SRB2 has its own unique plotline that leads to the "big bad final eggman" just like any other traditional sonic story. Sonic 2 had the Chaos Emeralds, Sonic 3 had the Master Emerald, Sonic Unleashed had Dark Gaia, Sonic Generations had the...time thingy..you get where I'm going with this.
If anything, I'm expecting the "Final Eggman" to be something regarding the Black Rock as someone in this thread said earlier. It makes the most sense for SRB2's general story and, with how creative a lot of the zones and badniks have been, I'm sure it won't look too outlandish to be "fan-fiction" and feel more like an actual Sonic game.

[SeproDep]

I don't know if the engine is capable, but what about something like the Finalhazard?

[ManuelRome]

Originally Posted by OP345

You don't need to even care about conflict with the rest of the continuity. The continuity is bullshit. The Classic Sonic-Modern Sonic distinction is stupid. SRB2 is already "fan-fiction" or an "OC" given how it's a literal fan-game with new badniks, things taken directly from the OVA, and levels.

You can even make it a completely different character that isn't a robot too. That's not what I want but you can do it.

While I understand your point of view, saying that the continuity is bad or that the distinction of the Classic-Modern Sonic is bad is a different topic all together, it seems to be very subjective to me.

I'm talking about something that shouldn't collide with STJR's views of what the game should be, and as far as I see it, they're definitely taking things from the Classic Sonic era, while not necessarily copying things directly from it, but more like, making stuff that would make sense to be in this game, without making it be a completely new thing and yet not mentioned in the later games.

This is why I don't think a completely original character would make sense, also it wouldn't be necessary, there's already plenty of great OC character mods that are pretty much available to anyone.

[time gear]

OC mods are fine but I don't really think they should become vanilla characters, for a number of reasons. The chief reason being that it comes at heavy risk of bringing SRB2 deep into "Cringy fanfiction" territory. While one could argue that it is already in fanfiction territory, I feel that the limited story we have actually fits pretty neatly into the kind of thing one would expect from a Classic Sonic title. A totally new OC character however might be taking things a bit too far. Additionally, it would come with the question "Why does this character make it in but (Insert OC character here) doesn't?".

In regards to how a Super Sonic final boss could be handled in SRB2, I think a number of things are totally valid possibilities:

NiGHTS style - Probably the most obvious. It could work well but it would be something of a departure from the 3D nature of the rest of the game. It might feel more natural if more 2D sections are implemented into the main campaign.

Invisible Floor - The weakest option in my opinion. While this would play the most like typical gameplay, it also comes at the risk of feeling rather disappointing unless the fight is exceptionally designed around the usual playstyle so as to make the player not mind much. Nonetheless, there's enough potential to this one that I wouldn't shun the idea entirely.

Free flight (Egg Reverie style) - The option I am most fond of. For the most part I would prefer the free flight be limited to the boss fight, but I wouldn't mind if they put an enabler for it in Pandora's Box. This is the style that gives the player the most freedom of movement, and as such makes them feel more powerful. This would do the best at capturing the feeling of playing through Doomsday Zone in 3D. The ability to unlock the free flight alongside the other cheats in the Pandora menu would also provide extreme incentive to actually collect all the emblems without completing the task being overall mandatory.

Combination (Phases) - The idea of bosses that have multiple phases isn't a new thing, even to the Sonic franchise. Sonic 3&K had several bosses that were multiple phases, and the Advance series made pinch modes popular within the franchise. To combine multiple ideas into one in the form of phases that each play differently could be something of a double edged sword, as while it could end up feeling more epic to the player overall, it also comes at the risk of either the fight being too long, or each phase being too short lived. As such, this is the option that would most need to be handled with care, and would probably require the most work.

All that is my two cents, anyway.

[Unknownlight]

The one big advantage of NiGHTS-style is that the player has to already be good at NiGHTS in order to reach the boss in the first place. Egg Reverie-style is cooler in theory, but it's a new gameplay style out of nowhere at the very end of the game, which means that the boss has to be very easy in order to not be frustrating.

[SilverVortex]

if we're going to go for a NiGHTS style final boss, my suggestion is to make it locked behind all seven chaos emeralds. think about it, the normal special stages would be the "main game" leading up to this boss and the boss itself would be the brak eggman of NiGHTS. those who failed to get all seven would have the game ended when defeating normal brak eggman, just like normal.
i just think it's a better solution than forcing new players who wouldn't go out of their way to get chaos emeralds into a new gameplay style they're not familiar with, burning all of their lives and making the final boss almost unclearable.

[Tree_Tanooke]

Maybe Super Eggman from Sonic After The Sequel, ATS.

[ManuelRome]

Originally Posted by Unknownlight

Egg Reverie-style is cooler in theory, but it's a new gameplay style out of nowhere at the very end of the game, which means that the boss has to be very easy in order to not be frustrating.

I mean, I also kinda agree on the fact that having a free-flying gameplay could be confusing, but the Egg Reverie-style is not mandatory, you could have normal Super Sonic movement on a 3D stage, it also doesn't have to be directly in outer space necessarily, it could be a floating platform or floating pieces that you have to jump trough.

The reason I'm not so keen on a NiGHTS style final boss, is because some people don't like that gameplay, I do like it myself for the special stages, not so much for a final boss. So that's why I don't think it would feel that much of a reward for getting the 7 chaos emeralds. It would also be a bit inconsistent to have the final boss be in a 2D stage, while all other bosses are in 3D stages.

[Unknownlight]

As a bit of an aside, in the hypothetical scenario where NiGHTS gameplay is used for the final boss, Super Sonic shouldn't be used during the normal special stages. Like Tails/Amy/Fang, characters should just look normal.

It's important to make the final boss feel special and not "just another special stage". Characters going Super only during the final boss helps with that feeling, along with other changes like making the dash attack much faster, more powerful, and flashy.

I definitely feel that—if executed well—this style has the most potential for an epic Doomsday Zone-style flying through space battle with overpowered attacks and cinematic flair while still keeping to a control scheme that players are used to. Just playing as Super Sonic jumping around on platforms is fine, but I feel that there's less potential when you're confined to a standard boss arena.

[ManuelRome]

Originally Posted by OP345

I would love to see something unique instead of the same old "run around collecting coins and then bopping into the boss or the boss's weak points" gameplay you see in most Sonic games.

I also agree most Super Sonic stages from official games are pretty boring, mostly because of what you said, being just about collecting rings and hitting the boss. But a stage being in 3D doesn't imply that gameplay, unless you're free flying of course, which would make it pretty difficult to make anything different from that, which is why it could just be normal Super Sonic on a stage instead of him flying Egg Reverie-style.

Originally Posted by Unknownlight

As a bit of an aside, in the hypothetical scenario where NiGHTS gameplay is used for the final boss, Super Sonic shouldn't be used during the normal special stages. Like Tails/Amy/Fang, characters should just look normal.

While I agree on this, it would also make it a bit of an issue since, they would need to make new sprites for Sonic for the NiGHTS stages. But who knows, maybe it's not that big of an issue.

Originally Posted by Unknownlight

I definitely feel that—if executed well—this style has the most potential for an epic Doomsday Zone-style flying through space battle with overpowered attacks and cinematic flair while still keeping to a control scheme that players are used too. Just playing as Super Sonic jumping around on platforms is fine, but I feel that there's less potential when you're confined to a standard boss arena.

Yeah, that's true, maybe it could be a free-flying stage, but in 2D, just so you get the normal moveset instead of the more limited NiGHTS one, altough I'm not sure how that gameplay would feel, since there aren't a lot of 2D segments on the main stages.

[ManuelRome]

Originally Posted by OP345

That'd also be boring. There would be no point to Sonic being Super in this case if you're just doing regular platforming. It wouldn't be special.

Yeah, thinking about it, normal platforming could be just as boring, maybe having multiple phases would make more sense, you know, like maybe it could be:

-The big Eggman station is about to be destroyed, and you have to race outside before a timer runs out (Altough, that might contradict how the ending scene shows the station exploding).

-You fight a flying version of Brak Eggman in a 2D stage, more akin to "Doomsday Zone" in terms of gameplay, but with a unique way of beating the boss, instead of being the collect rings, hit the boss usual stuff.

Now, I'm not sure how well the NiGHTS gameplay would adapt to a 2D boss, I think it might work better as a normal 2D section, with free flying as Super Sonic, instead of a NiGHTS stage. Altough as someone said before, maybe there would need to be more 2D sections in the main stages so it didn't feel weird to have a 2D segment like this.

[Elyos03]

NiGHTS or not, I so want a true final boss for this game.

Sonic & Knuckles invented it. Up until Unleashed, the tradition was kept in posterior games. Mania brought it back.

I don't see why not.

[Trevor]

To be honest it would be kind of a neat idea to add a Doomsday kind of zone into srb2 using nights

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Elyos03

NiGHTS or not, I so want a true final boss for this game.

Sonic & Knuckles invented it. Up until Unleashed, the tradition was kept in posterior games. Mania brought it back.

I don't see why not.

People still love Sonic 2 and CD despite being two games that don't have a secret boss when having every Chaos Emeralds/Time Stones