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Old 03-15-2017   #5561
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Sea Egg's problem isn't the clones, it's the punishment for guessing wrong when you haven't figured it out yet being too harsh. We're aware of the problems with that boss.
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Old 03-16-2017   #5562
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Perhaps the clones could just pop instead of bouncing you off, thus giving the player a chance to land on the glass tube instead of in the water?
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Old 03-16-2017   #5563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic
Sea Egg's problem isn't the clones, it's the punishment for guessing wrong when you haven't figured it out yet being too harsh. We're aware of the problems with that boss.
That's the thing, Mystic, Guessing is not good game-design. (in my humble opinion.)

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Perhaps the clones could just pop instead of bouncing you off, thus giving the player a chance to land on the glass tube instead of in the water?
That, or just have the ones that are fake not attack you. Or they could flash, like how the player does when he get hit.
Just some sort of visual indicator would make all of us content.
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Old 03-16-2017   #5564
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Perosnally i find the 'Sea Egg' boss pretty easy but an indicator to show what eggs are't right when damaged, would be a nice addition.
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Old 03-17-2017   #5565
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Originally Posted by Fang the Weasle View Post
Just some sort of visual indicator would make all of us content.
The fakes already look different from the original. Their bodies are differently shaped, they don't have a blue seat visible behind them, and they don't laugh like Eggman does when they fire torpedoes. All of those differences are subtle, of course, but if they weren't, finding the real Eggman would be too easy.

On the topic of how to make the punishment for choosing wrong less severe, what if the fakes directly reversed the player's horizontal momentum when they're hit, just like real bosses do, but without actually getting damaged? That way, the player would still have a chance to get back to the platform they jumped from, but they'd be at greater risk of getting hit by the next round of torpedoes.
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Old 03-18-2017   #5566
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Perhaps the clones could just pop instead of bouncing you off, thus giving the player a chance to land on the glass tube instead of in the water?
Are you familiar with the concepts of rebound and air ball?

(You have it backwards, bouncing off the clones gives you the opportunity to land back on the solid ground you started on, or to thok/fly/whatever to the ground in front of you instead. The player shouldn't be landing in the water, clone or not, unless they're just holding forward the whole time. A natural rebound should take the player back approximately to where you started. Landing on the pipe and recovering would be incredibly difficult because 1) the player's view of the pipe is blocked by the clone, 2) the pipe is incredibly thin and even if the player did land on it they'd have a very small window to jump off before their momentum causes them to fall off, and 3) if the player is going for the clone, they're probably thinking it's the actual Sea Egg, and would be preparing to bounce off. Inconsistent behavior between the clone and the Real Eggman means the player would have to react upon realizing it's a clone, and completely recalculate their aerial trajectory)

Last edited by Kaysakado; 03-18-2017 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 03-18-2017   #5567
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Sea Egg aside, Any new thoughts on my other idea?

Spoiler: Reminder that you don't need because you have the ability to scroll up

I think analog control should have the camera lock onto the boss you are fighting like in Sonic Adventure.

I personally HATE fighting any boss like this! Just to put it in Perspective, My record time on Green flower zone act 3 is 30 Seconds with Sonic and With analog control off, but playing act 2 is a chore with analog control off. At least for me, that is.

But with analog control on, the rules are reversed. Please fix this by making the camera focused on the boss in the room at all times for analog control.

For stages with Multiple bosses, The Rotate Camera R and Rotate Camera L (by default, the keys are "]" and "[" respectively) would make the camera snap to focus on another boss, kind of like how you can press the Z button to cycle through multiple enemies with Z Targeting in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time. (or The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask.)

As for bosses nearby or in a different room, or even for multiplayer, if the boss isn't targeting the player, the camera isn't focused on the boss
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Old 03-18-2017   #5568
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Originally Posted by Kaysakado View Post
Inconsistent behavior between the clone and the Real Eggman means the player would have to react upon realizing it's a clone, and completely recalculate their aerial trajectory)
The fakes already have different bounce physics than the real Sea Egg. When you hit them, it's much less likely that you'll land back on the platform that you jumped from. Without looking at the code, my best guess is that they send you flying at an angle that's the opposite of your position's angle relative to them, as opposed to real bosses, which just flip your horizontal velocity and send you back exactly the way you came.
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Old 03-18-2017   #5569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang the Weasle View Post
Sea Egg aside, Any new thoughts on my other idea?
Spoiler: Reminder that you don't need because you have the ability to scroll up
I think analog control should have the camera lock onto the boss you are fighting like in Sonic Adventure.

I personally HATE fighting any boss like this! Just to put it in Perspective, My record time on Green flower zone act 3 is 30 Seconds with Sonic and With analog control off, but playing act 2 is a chore with analog control off. At least for me, that is.

But with analog control on, the rules are reversed. Please fix this by making the camera focused on the boss in the room at all times for analog control.

For stages with Multiple bosses, The Rotate Camera R and Rotate Camera L (by default, the keys are "]" and "[" respectively) would make the camera snap to focus on another boss, kind of like how you can press the Z button to cycle through multiple enemies with Z Targeting in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time. (or The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask.)

As for bosses nearby or in a different room, or even for multiplayer, if the boss isn't targeting the player, the camera isn't focused on the boss
If there's something worse than the camera not focusing on the boss in analog mode, it's very likely the camera not focusing on the boss in analog mode some of the time, while focusing on it some of the other time. As for having the camera focus on the boss in analog mode in general, that sounds awful to me in concept and practice (I think Adventure Mode did this in earlier versions, or perhaps just an EXE mod or something, so I have tried it), especially for bosses like Sea Egg (either being horrible or giving away who the real Egg is) or... that Castle Egg boss (due to how you don't want the camera to be facing the boss around a third or so of the time), not to mention when you just don't want the camera to face the boss in any boss fight.

If it focuses on the boss all the time, it can work great in a few boss fights, but most of the time, it sounds much better than it is, even if it already sounds bad. If it focuses on the boss some of the time, I can't imagine how that can ever work great in any boss fight.

Last edited by Zwip-Zwap Zapony; 03-18-2017 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 03-19-2017   #5570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwip-Zwap Zapony View Post
If there's something worse than the camera not focusing on the boss in analog mode, it's very likely the camera not focusing on the boss in analog mode some of the time, while focusing on it some of the other time. As for having the camera focus on the boss in analog mode in general, that sounds awful to me in concept and practice (I think Adventure Mode did this in earlier versions, or perhaps just an EXE mod or something, so I have tried it), especially for bosses like Sea Egg (either being horrible or giving away who the real Egg is) or... that Castle Egg boss (due to how you don't want the camera to be facing the boss around a third or so of the time), not to mention when you just don't want the camera to face the boss in any boss fight.

If it focuses on the boss all the time, it can work great in a few boss fights, but most of the time, it sounds much better than it is, even if it already sounds bad. If it focuses on the boss some of the time, I can't imagine how that can ever work great in any boss fight.
Wait a minute, Adventure Mode? When was that removed?
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Old 03-19-2017   #5571
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Originally Posted by Fang the Weasle View Post
That's the thing, Mystic, Guessing is not good game-design. (in my humble opinion.)
It's not guessing anyways, and your analogy to a multiple choice where the answers are whited out is incorrect as well. It'd be more like taking a test where you're made to read brief passages and answer based on information in the text. Unless you've actually read the passage, your chances of answering correctly are iffy at best.

In the case of the Sea Egg, you could say that you just haven't learned how to read the passages right, so your only choice left is guessing.

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Wait a minute, Adventure Mode? When was that removed?
It was removed in 2.0

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Last edited by TelosTurntable; 03-19-2017 at 03:27 AM. Reason: Jesus christ did I just write 'it was remove' someone end my miserable life
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Old 03-19-2017   #5572
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^ This.

It's worth noting that none of our bosses require you to attack the first time there is an opening. Standing back and watching and assessing is something we permit and encourage. You're not actually required at any point to make a guess. The problems with Sea Egg aren't due to the existence of the clones themselves.
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Old 03-20-2017   #5573
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even if you do read the passages, it's like trying to follow moving nutshells to find the pea under a single one, only worse as the 3 "Shells" can go right through each other.
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Old 03-20-2017   #5574
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I think the problem with the sea-egg is that those of the seeing-impaired and resolution-impaired population have a hard time differentiating the decoys from the real one if they can at all. I know that I definitely couldn't distinguish them before I had laser-eye surgery.
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Old 03-21-2017   #5575
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I can say that even with good eyesight and high resolutions, I still get confused.
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Old 03-25-2017   #5576
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Allow us to use Emblem Radar and hints on 2P Mode, been enjoying splitscreen recently and i think it would be cool if we can both (I and my friend) search for Hidden emblems and play secret levels together.

Also side note, Advance to next map option does nothing, can't have random map Rotation, not sure if it's restricted to 2P Mode, haven't tested it on Netgames yet.
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Old 03-25-2017   #5577
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Actually, to extend that previous suggestion: Implement the Multiplayer Emblem System from TopDown, as to allow for better compatibility with mods such as Sugoi, or even just so a group of players can team up in order to get the unlockables.
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Old 03-25-2017   #5578
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Originally Posted by RomioTheBadass View Post
Advance to next map option does nothing
It does do something, that is, on Match/CTF/Tag gamemodes (Dunno about Race/Competition though), but doesn't work on Co-op for obvious reasons.
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Old 03-25-2017   #5579
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Originally Posted by RomioTheBadass View Post
Allow us to use Emblem Radar and hints on 2P Mode, been enjoying splitscreen recently and i think it would be cool if we can both (I and my friend) search for Hidden emblems and play secret levels together.
First we'd have to allow emblems to be collected in 2P mode in the first place. =)
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Old 03-25-2017   #5580
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Yes please :o, We have been playing SUGOI and after beating the Final boss we unlocked bunch of stuff so I assumed it works for 2P Mode aswell, It was nice and much more fun than doing it alone, I didn't feel like looking for the emblems and completing levels alone.
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