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Old 07-06-2020   #21
Frostiikin
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Originally Posted by SeventhSentinel View Post
Wads that work properly, don't break rules, and don't contain stolen content get passed. Wads do not have to be "good" to pass. If everything had to be "good" to pass, that would close to door to a lot of newbie modders. I for one like to open that door for them and give others the chance to give them constructive criticism. (Then again, I've neglected my judge duties for years now :y)
Also, the wandnight clones definitely break rule 1, and runball is really teetering on the edge with how simple his lua is (literally just instathrust at all times) and the fact that its literally just a ball with ms paint line tool legs.


"Releases is for files you put actual effort into. Submissions that are just recolors, basic shapes, solo sprite rips, music replacements, or trivial scripts will be immediately rejected.
A submission made of recolors, basic shapes, or sprite rips can still make it through releases if extra effort has clearly gone into making them. For example, a mod that is just Mario's sprite ripped from Super Mario Kart would not make it in as a Kart mod, but the entire Super Mario Kart cast being ripped and even including custom characters in the same style was something that was allowed to pass. A recolor of Sonic called "Spyro the Hedgehog" was allowed to pass because he actually played like Spyro the Dragon via Lua scripting."
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Last edited by Frostiikin; 07-06-2020 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 07-06-2020   #22
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I encourage you and other users to rate mods you like with stars.
I've never liked that star system. People have already gone and review bombed the mods mentioned here down to 1 star, which is about the same as mass posting "wow this sucks", except it's entirely anonymous. Even in the hypothetical scenario the authors become more skilled over time and improve their mods, there's no coming back from that initial bad reception because of how the rating system works. Not to mention there's been a bug on the forums for several years that won't let a large portion of users actually vote because of an "invalid IP" error.

I'd recommend to rely more on the misleadingly named "Installs" counter at the top of the thread, since that actually measures how many people have added the mod to favorites. It's unfortunately not as visible as the much less helpful stars.

Last edited by Katmint; 07-06-2020 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 07-06-2020   #23
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I agree with OP, especially since they also make characters on the MB
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Old 07-06-2020   #24
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Let me clarify what I said earlier: I'm not saying all mods with lackluster elements need to be turned down, but having 3 seperate release threads for what's essentially the same character is ridiculous.
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Old 07-06-2020   #25
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That's already been dealt with.
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Old 07-06-2020   #26
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Originally Posted by Katmint View Post
I'd recommend to rely more on the misleadingly named "Installs" counter at the top of the thread, since that actually measures how many people have added the mod to favorites. It's unfortunately not as visible as the much less helpful stars.
That's what that means? Man, all these years and I've never known. Thank you.
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Old 07-06-2020   #27
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that's what that means? Man, all these years and i've never known. Thank you.
Yeah, maaayyybe they should rename that...
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Old 07-06-2020   #28
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Originally Posted by Katmint View Post
Yeah, I saw that. My point still stands though, clone threads don't need to exist in general.
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Old 07-06-2020   #29
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The only stuff I feel this way about are legacy characters. I can see the amusing appeal of a multi-thok, but do we really need SSNSonic, which essentially is just a worse sprite rip, for that? Otherwise let's not gatekeep, those kids have to learn somewhere, and it's better for it be here than somewhere else.

Also for the rating system, I'd go as far as to suggest ripping off social media and creating a likes/favorites system. It's simple, easy to use and it's a number that can't go down, unlike with the stars. Add an optional filter to see the most liked and voila.
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Old 07-06-2020   #30
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Yeah, maaayyybe they should rename that...
If I go all the way back to my first (and only, because I quickly realized that making levels is suffering) release back in the 2.0 days, you can even see me ask then.

Quote:
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By the way, at the top of the page, it says "Last Update: Never" and "Installs: 1". How do you make an update "count"? What's an "install"?
I've gotten the answer to my second question seven years later, now maybe I can get the first one too. How do you make an update count?
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Old 07-06-2020   #31
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I've gotten the answer to my second question seven years later, now maybe I can get the first one too. How do you make an update count?
Under "edit addon settings" you'll see this addon version box.


The "version" can technically be anything, but in order to detect updates it must be a whole number with no decimals. You must then increase the value of that number and save changes. Yes, the forum is dumb.

Last edited by Katmint; 07-06-2020 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 07-06-2020   #32
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Thank you kindly.

That's so dumb.
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Old 07-06-2020   #33
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With how easily this game can be modded, I'd rather see a lot of low quality content from people genuinely trying their best to make something new than to see the community doing the gatekeeping that it's been doing for the past decade. I don't think we'd ever see characters with unique playstyles like Jet, Nasya, or a halfway decent Yoshi if we still held people to the standards of "Draw at least 177 character frames and do it WELL" ON TOP of the new lua scripting system. Besides, this will give new creators a chance to recieve valuable constructive criticism towards making better things in the future. "We all start from somewhere" is a phrase I've been thinking about a lot lately and I think more people should consider too.
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Old 07-06-2020   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostiikin View Post
(snip)
We have requested the wad creator to combine the wandnight threads.

As for Runball, it very well may have been better suited to being a script instead of a whole character. That doesn't mean it deserved to be rejected. It doesn't even matter that the script is simplistic, it still alters gameplay enough to change how you approach it, and it does so in an interesting enough way.

I stand by the decisions of the other judges.
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Old 07-06-2020   #35
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Agreed that all content that works as intended and isn't stolen should be allowed to pass, Maybe some way to make the star rating system more clear to encourage using it more would go a long way to alleviate the issue of better content getting "drowned" in newbie-tier content, so that the higher the mod's quality is, the higher it gets on the list, gatekeeping and elitism will just push creators away, give them the chance to receive feedback and improve at the very least.
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Old 07-06-2020   #36
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Alright I might as well throw my two cents in. I'm gonna be 100% transparent about this.
After reading through this discussion and thinking about it for more than 5 seconds I honestly disagree with a quality gate.

Now hear me out, people on discord may call me a hypocrite because just last night I was actively criticizing these """low quality""" mods. And It's 100% due to personal frustration and nothing else, that was childish of me. As for the topic itself, putting up a quality gate will only discourage new creators from wanting to give modding a shot, especially how accessible SRB2 modding is in and of itself. We want new modders, because while they may be creating "low quality" mods right now, they might just end up creating a huge mod a few years down the line that is universally loved.

To put an example (sorry if it seems like I'm blowing my own horn), but what would have happened if I were denied from posting the original Eggpack back in 2.1? The sprites were horrid edits of already existing Eggman wads, plus it was literally just Tails with holdfly and nothing else. I would have never attempted to continue working on my mods, I would have never remade Eggpack or made my new content. Just because of a quality gate.

Now, as for characters like those fairies, and those single sprite characters with a basic mechanic? That's where we as a community come in. The reason they're here isn't just for playing, its for giving feedback. If you want a creator to grow, you need to give them fair, constructive criticism for them to understand what can be improved and what can't. If you just dogpile on them saying "this is shit", that's just plain discouraging and you're not better than them.

You have a problem with a character? Go and write some constructive criticism. Use the ratings system. These things are there for a reason. I know I will.

and for the record please be careful with your phrasing, that title is a huge yikes
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Old 07-06-2020   #37
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My god Frostii, just let the kids have their fun.

Threads like this one should not exist lest we fall into the same quality trap happening circa 2.0. I recall you specifically being one of the people mocking Mystic's "Reeee only quality" mindset, and it's strange to see this from you.
Judging has been has been getting more leniant and it's for the better.
Releases is a very light filter, and it should stay that way. It allows the kids to have some fun while not turning it into Gamebanana-esque fuck fest.
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Old 07-06-2020   #38
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Originally Posted by Kwiin View Post
My god Frostii, just let the kids have their fun.

Threads like this one should not exist lest we fall into the same quality trap happening circa 2.0. I recall you specifically being one of the people mocking Mystic's "Reeee only quality" mindset, and it's strange to see this from you.
Judging has been has been getting more leniant and it's for the better.
Releases is a very light filter, and it should stay that way. It allows the kids to have some fun while not turning it into Gamebanana-esque fuck fest.
Again, I was getting kinda miffed by the wandnight clone spam when I made this thread, they'd all literally just released. Honestly, I shouldn't have gone after wandnight's sprites like I did, but I still hold my sentiment about the wandnight clones being incredibly lazy recolors, and I'm glad that they're being forced into a single thread.
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Old 07-07-2020   #39
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This topic is in really bad taste. For many people, the SRB2 community is one of the first places where they get to work on creative things like this and share it with others. Why would you make a thread just to shame out other kids' creations? That's so rude.

Any problem you had with what you saw as thread spam could have been taken up in private with a moderator or judge, you didn't need to make this a public callout on other people's passion projects for not meeting your personal standards.
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Old 07-07-2020   #40
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Nothing more needs saying than Whackjood's previous post:
The main purpose of submissions is to make sure things work and are not plagiarised.
If you think a mod can be improved, go to the thread and give constructive criticism (and absolutely not rude criticism). That's all there is to it.
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