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Old 04-23-2020   #1
cookiefonster
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Default Fang character discussion thread

There have been some pretty big threads here dedicated to discussions of a certain character's abilities, but I don't think anyone has made one about Fang. So I will fix that! As with the Amy and Metal Sonic threads, I'll make a series of questions for people to answer.

1. How much do you enjoy playing as Fang compared to the other two unlockable characters?

My answer: I enjoy him easily the most of the three, mostly because of his novelty factor and how much he twists up the existing gameplay. Bouncing around levels and shooting enemies, monitors, and a few miscellany are both insanely fun changes of pace from the other characters, and you can do cool things as him you can't do as anyone else. Highlights include his ability to bounce over lava and damaging areas like the Castle Eggman brambles, certain gaps he can clear if you aim the bounce correctly, and easily killing some enemies that give most characters a hard time like snappers and pterabytes. Fang's gun is powerful, but you can only use it if you stop and aim which I think is a good compromise.

2. How rewarding do you think it is to master Fang's moveset?

My answer: moderately rewarding. I'd rank him at about the same as Knuckles in terms of rewarding factor. He can do crazy cool things as I said earlier, but the power of his bounce is immediately apparent when you start playing as him which is much unlike Sonic, Metal, or Amy. It is quite a learning curve to know when to best use the bounce (rule of thumb: use it on downward slopes or big gaps but not upward slopes), so that's a plus. Knowing how to effectively use Fang's abilities on a gap is a lot of fun and adds to his enjoyability. As for the gun, it requires a slight amount of skill to master but it's mostly straightforward from the start.

3. How do you feel about Fang's alternate paths in levels?

My answer: The alternate paths are probably my least favorite thing about playing as Fang. Fang usually shares alternate paths with Amy, and those paths tend to be more enjoyable playing as her than him. This may be because Amy is by far the least versatile character in terms of horizontal momentum and taking an alternate path geared around her feels like being thrown a bone, while taking the same path as Fang feels rather forced and weird.
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Old 04-23-2020   #2
Jona
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Good grief, next thing we know people are going to be discussing custom characters.

I think Fang is perfectly fine and a welcome addition to SRB2's default roster. There's a level of mastery that allows you to blitz through levels with cleverly placed bounces, with the only thing in your way being an unlucky enemy or two.

The only thing not fine about him is his alternate path in AGZ for the emblem...

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Old 04-23-2020   #3
Seaball
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My god, yes, I was waiting for something like this.

1. How much do you enjoy playing as Fang compared to the other two unlockable characters?

He's without a doubt the best of the three. Ever since early 2.1 playing as Fang in SRB2 was a pipe dream of mine. He's such an unique character in so many different ways and I cannot put into words how excited I was when I found out he was in the game!

Since he was designed first out of the three, his moveset definitely feels the most polished. Incredibly so, in fact. The Spring Tail is really fun - every part of it - and his cork is the most devilish thing in the game. He's a much slower character than the rest of the cast but that just adds to how nice he feels.

2. How rewarding do you think it is to master Fang's moveset?

I don't know, Fang doesn't sound very hard to master. The only thing you'd need to be "good at Fang" is to understand how his bounce acceleration works, so maybe collecting that AGZ emblem qualifies for having mastered him? Since he's naturally a slower character I don't think the feeling of mastery of him isn't as rewarding as, say, Sonic or Knuckles, who are far more technical characters.


3. How do you feel about Fang's alternate paths in levels?

I don't like them. He doesn't have many unique paths in levels at all, since, as far as I remember, all of them are shared with Amy. I think that the level design underestimates Fang's potential a lot. He can bounce over ANYTHING. He can bounce over the electric panels in Techno Hill. He can bounce over spikes. He can bounce over lava, of all things, and yet why the hell does every Fang alternate path can't be Fang-exclusive and has to be "nospin-exclusive" instead? I'd love to see Fang bouncing across a bunch of electric panels in some sort of hidden area in Techno Hill (maybe even for a Fang emblem), or pogoing across rivers of lava with his inpermeable tail.
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Old 04-23-2020   #4
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1. How much do you enjoy playing as Fang compared to the other two unlockable characters?

I did not enjoy my first playthrough as Fang at all.

I messed around with the bounce in Greenflower Act 1, noticed the bone-crunching momentum loss upon starting/exiting the Tail Spring, and went "okay, I guess this is a bit like Knuckles, where there are some costs associated with using the glide and you only want to use it to skip platforming".

Then I tried doing a massive bounce in Greenflower Act 2, learned that it doesn't completely reflect vertical momentum, and went "wow! this is worthless!".

I then proceeded through the game and barely ever used the Tail Spring, only using it for the occasional high jump. I had not unlocked Amy at the time (nor did I know that she was in the game), so I assumed that Fang was meant to be the game's designated challenge character.

2. How rewarding do you think it is to master Fang's moveset?

After trying out all the other characters, I tried playing Fang again, this time attempting to bounce as much as possible. I had discovered a completely different character.

Chaining one's bounces together as Fang is a very enjoyable experience, and it feels like everything Metal Sonic's Boost Mode was meant to be. The penalty for messing up on a chain is a huge speed loss, and it can be fairly challenging to maintain the chain as one goes through the level; but unlike Boost Mode, it's much more possible to keep one's speed up during the twistier, more platforming-intensive parts of the levels, and one is rewarded with very powerful skip potential.

Figuring out which part of the terrain to land on between bounces feels more like Classic Sonic terrain interaction than anything the other characters do; hitting downward slopes to go faster, hitting upward slopes to bounce higher, catching a stray platform at the apex of one's jump to ascend, taking those high risk bounces on platforms suspended above pits; there's quite a lot of adrenaline involved and I never feel bored.

The popgun feels like an alternative playstyle the player ends up in as a punishment if they can't maintain their bounce, and I like that. Fang is the most vulnerable character in the game while moving, so the player is forced to decide whether they want to risk running past enemies or slowing down to shoot them.

3. How do you feel about Fang's alternate paths in levels?

They tend not to be very exciting for the reasons already stated. Knuckles and Amy usually use their mechanics in ways that they don't often use in regular gameplay in their alternate paths; Fang should already be spamming his ability in regular gameplay, and his sections often don't allow him to continue a chain.
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Old 04-23-2020   #5
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Quote:
1. How much do you enjoy playing as Fang compared to the other two unlockable characters?
Of the unlockables, he is without a doubt the most enjoyable. His playstyle is very distinct while operating quite well in the format of SRB2's game and level design. The mechanics of the popgun force a certain tactical mindset on the player when engaging against enemies, and the tail-bounce is a hard-to-control yet powerful method of platforming that tests players' mastery of the game's momentum physics. Tail-bouncing on top of monitors and enemies, while not playing a huge role in Fang's general gameplay, is very satisfying to pull off when executed successfully. In terms of novelty and aesthetic, it also helps that Fang is a very expressive character, with his "skedaddle" run, teeter, and continue animations bringing out the more comical aspects of his character design.

The only possible drawbacks to his design are that his gun trivializes most bosses (if anything, this can be considered something of a perk), and the momentum-cut of the tail-bounce sadly prevents him from being optimal for time attack, and so the most interesting aspects of the bounce mechanic will often go unutilized by most players.

Quote:
2. How rewarding do you think it is to master Fang's moveset?
In terms of the general campaign and emblem collection, he feels quite rewarding; however, his inefficiency at speedrunning seems like a lost opportunity to take advantage of the tail-bounce's unique momentum mechanics.

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3. How do you feel about Fang's alternate paths in levels?
GFZ2's alternate path does a sufficient job of demonstrating how to use Fang's abilities to clear platforming, but it suffers from being an alternative sideroute, so I don't think its placement in the overall map design is ideal. Very few alternate routes actually stand out, with the exception of certain extra levels such as Haunted Heights and Aerial Garden which put Fang players through hell. It seems like there's a lot of unused opportunities to place a Fang path in THZ, CEZ, and ERZ due to the damaging floors and/or lava.
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Old 04-24-2020   #6
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1. How much do you enjoy playing as Fang compared to the other two unlockable characters?

initially, Fang was my least favorite player. His skill set is very... discouraging to say the least. I would often times find using any of his abilities to be more of a nuisance. I would actively go out of my way to not use it unless the game demanded it or there was a specific higher jump I could get with it. Casual play just felt like playing a character without any ability and no spin.

2. How rewarding do you think it is to master Fang's moveset?

I initially started speedrunning Fang because I felt the Fang runners were using super unoptimal routing. Experimenting around, I felt Fang had a ton of potential... being held back by a few design flaws that still made him somewhat frustrating to play.

Bounce: This probably has the worst problems. Bounce cancels momentum. Bouncing causes some slow down. Canceling bounce cancels momentum. While bouncing you have nearly no air control.

Out of all of these, I'd really only only want activating Bounce to no longer cancel momentum and to give him more air control. I think canceling bounce gives players better time to land after bouncing, but the canceling of momentum of starting it makes it a lot harder when aiming for your target and makes it stand out in a bad way being the only ability that stops you on activation.

As for air control, I feel this just needs normal air movement to give bounce a more freeflowing way of using it. Right now you basically use it going straight or you don't use it at all.

Pop-gun: I get the idea of this ability. I really do. But it just feels so bad to use. Having it cancel all momentum like the rest of his kit just helps further how rough Fang has it as any kind of speed character. And even as a "boss killer" he doesn't even kill them that fast, just mildly safely. And even that isn't true since bosses like DSZ3 and BCZ3 basically get a free hit on him. I know it's a glitch, but I really hope the pop-shot stays in or at the very least Fang can shoot the gun when he's a bit faster so he can slide a little while firing.

3. How do you feel about Fang's alternate paths in levels?

There were quite a few I didn't even know were in the game first go around. They're "okay". None of them are bad, but none of them were particularly memorable. I will say I enjoyed the underground path for Fang/Amy in ACZ2. However ACZ has the problem of a lot of them blending in too much since they're just wood. I'm not even sure what to suggest to make it more noticeable. It just felt like scenery until someone showed it to me.
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Old 04-24-2020   #7
RomioTheBadass
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Ah cool, more character discussions

I don't have any strong feelings towards Fang, I think he's a fine addition to the game and I found him interesting enough to warrant another playthrough of the campaign.
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Old 04-24-2020   #8
Wosh
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I don't have much to say except I wish the bounce wouldn't cut momentum. He's still great but it would be so much nicer to be able to flow into a bounce.
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Old 04-24-2020   #9
KuroEl64
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1. How much do you enjoy playing as Fang compared to the other two unlockable characters?

I really enjoy playing as Fang. His Bounce is quite useful when you fall from a high place as you bounce higher than normally. He's a nice touch being a srb2 unlockable character seeing a old sonic character.


2. How rewarding do you think it is to master Fang's moveset?


Honestly a bit tricky to master his moveset but you will get used to it. Because of that I always play as Fang now since I know how to use his moveset. Using the Tail Bounce can be useful to keep up your speed or when you bounce on a slope you get quite a speed boost and if you keep bouncing you still have that speed boost unless you hit a wall. For his pop gun is basically like using the ringslinger , well excluding the auto target it could be useful to clear your way by destroying the badniks.



3. How do you feel about Fang's alternate paths in levels?
On GFZ2 you can take a alternate path for Amy/Fang kinda like a glimpse to see that you can go to different places that you cannot using Sonic and the others. Although some are slower or some are quick depending of your gameplay. Like on DSZ the alternate path takes more time than the normal path since Fang cannot spin dash to open the door
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Old 04-24-2020   #10
Icarus
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I really like Fang a lot (thanks for including it in the game) but I'll be honest, I don't like how you have to stop to shoot at enemies...

I wish it was more like Gamma's gameplay (minus the multi lock-on) because it had a better flow (even for a modern Sonic game in 3D compared to the momentum-based one from SRB2).


  1. I feel like he's the least enjoyable simply because Amy is relatively faster (and very effective with her hammer) while Metal is a speed demon (especially with his hovering and boost mode)
  2. Very but honestly I wish it wasn't so frustrating to master it
  3. Nothing special, it's basically like Knuckles' without taking advantage of his abilities.
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Old 04-24-2020   #11
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1. How much do you enjoy playing as Fang compared to the other two unlockable characters?

He's my favorite of the 3 unlockable characters. Favorite two things that provide the most enjoyment -- his design, and the bounce.

The gun is okay but feels disappointing because it's both over-powered in the homing/lock on ability, and weak in the pop-gun sense. I assume that's an attempt to balance it, but it feels like it should be able to work like the boss fight — able to fire 3 shots in a row instead of one, like pre-charge ability Mega Man. "Pop" is alright, "pewpewpew" is better. Also think it'd be more fun if you could shoot in mid-air.

If he had a default ability for Jump + Spin, it'd be cool if that were a bomb drop, also like the boss fight.

2. How rewarding do you think it is to master Fang's moveset?

I haven't completed the campaign, dropped off at ACZ1, although I play with him in record attack and no-save just to bounce around mostly in Greenflower 1 and 2.

I find it fun to just bounce around on crawlas and launch yourself around as much as you can. It feels like video game trampoline; I find it fun in and of itself separate from level challenges.

3. How do you feel about Fang's alternate paths in levels?

The only one I can specifically remember off the top of my head is Techno Hill 1 which felt like a fun discovery / alternate path.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #12
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1. How much do you enjoy playing as Fang compared to the other two unlockable characters?
I feel rather mixed to be honest. His bounce ability is quite interesting, though he almost feels like he was designed for an entirely different 3D platformer. That's not to say he doesn't work in SRB2, if anything it just makes him more unique among the rest of the cast. However, I don't entirely feel like he's really my thing. I would much rather play as Sonic, Metal, or Amy.

2. How rewarding do you think it is to master Fang's moveset?
Enjoyment factor aside, I definitely feel as though mastering Fang is worthwhile. It's not the easiest journey to go on, and can be a bit of a... Process, but the things you can pull off when you do remind me quite a bit of Sonic's advanced thok game in that it requires a lot of precision but rewards you greatly for it.

The one complaint I do have is Fang can't move while shooting. No, I don't mean shoot while moving. I mean coming to a full stop, shoot, and try to move. There's a brief period in which Fang is stuck in place, which can be completely awful while nearby swarms of enemies such as in AGZ. Since he can't go into a ball, this combined with the fairly slow pace he shoots at causes him to feel rather weak and vulnerable at times, encouraging just rushing past enemies instead of dealing with them when they are in such large numbers, which isn't always a particularly great solution either.

3. How do you feel about Fang's alternate paths in levels?
They're fine overall but honestly the main paths are just better when they are accessible. I notice that Fang's paths tend to also be Amy's paths. I feel like branching these out occasionally into specific Amy themed and Fang themed portions to make the most out of their specific abilities would probably make these paths feel a bit better. Aside from being unable to spin, Amy and Fang's movesets are usually pretty opposite, so pathways designed to be possible for both of them to clear feel pretty neutral and in general could usually be cleared as any of the characters if they find a way inside them.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #13
Icarus
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Would it be unbalanced to make it so Fang doesn't need to stop completely to be able to shoot?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #14
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The actual reason why he needs to stop to use the gun is because of animation limitations. We don't have animations for him using the gun while moving. However, when we set up that limitation and tested it, we found that it created some actual tension in gameplay that was working well. Fang's gun allows you to attack at range at the cost of being completely vulnerable to attack.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #15
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Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
The actual reason why he needs to stop to use the gun is because of animation limitations. We don't have animations for him using the gun while moving. However, when we set up that limitation and tested it, we found that it created some actual tension in gameplay that was working well. Fang's gun allows you to attack at range at the cost of being completely vulnerable to attack.
That's interesting, I did not know that! Goes to show that sometimes cool features of video games come about completely by accident.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
The actual reason why he needs to stop to use the gun is because of animation limitations. We don't have animations for him using the gun while moving. However, when we set up that limitation and tested it, we found that it created some actual tension in gameplay that was working well. Fang's gun allows you to attack at range at the cost of being completely vulnerable to attack.
I can understand it for bosses but for the common enemy it's better to use the corkscrew tail attack instead.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #17
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
I can understand it for bosses but for the common enemy it's better to use the corkscrew tail attack instead.
The tail attack tends to take longer than just shooting them. You have to position yourself, jump in the air, initiate the bounce, then land right on the enemy.

With the pop gun, you just shoot and continue on.

If you're looking to continue your momentum while killing an enemy, 9/10 times you'd be better off just running past the enemy since you'll be out of their range fairly quickly.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #18
Icarus
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In another way most enemies in SRB2 are avoidable.


At least some of the more annoying ones are manageable with him (like the crabs in Deep Sea)
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #19
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
I can understand it for bosses but for the common enemy it's better to use the corkscrew tail attack instead.
This is rarely ever true. Most of the time, the popgun is far away the safest attack to use against most enemies, even compared to regular spin attacks.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #20
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1. How much do you enjoy playing as Fang compared to the other two unlockable characters?
I don't like Fang, I don't like shooting in SRB2 neither in some games; it's hard to make me enjoy shooting mechanics in games.
I don't like Amy either, but I think I enjoy her more than fang.
Fang kinda feels like those mechas in the Adventure's series.

2. How rewarding do you think it is to master Fang's moveset?
It's hard, and I don't think I will ever, I don't feel like playing Fang, I like more chars like Sonic and that classical stuff. For the most part I would say some people actually like Fang and mastering his paths and the moveset,


3. How do you feel about Fang's alternate paths in levels?
They're certainly good, don't get you really out off your way for the most part, so I felt like they were well thought for him.

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

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This is rarely ever true. Most of the time, the popgun is far away the safest attack to use against most enemies, even compared to regular spin attacks.
Sometimes I just ignore enemies, with every single Char, even the ones who I haven't master, I just know how they act in certain situations.
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