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Old 08-07-2020   #1
ManuelRome
 
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Default Could a "Doomsday Zone" like stage work in SRB2?

I've been thinking that the last boss of SRB2 is a bit underwhelming, not in terms of difficulty, but in terms of design, it's barely a threat to Sonic unless you attack him, and also walks extremely slowly, which, while menacing, also looks a bit silly to me as the final egg machine against Sonic.

I've thought of the idea of having a Doomsday Zone like stage if you complete the game with all 7 chaos emeralds as Sonic exclusively. I've always liked those stages that force you to play as Super Sonic against a final battle against Eggman, and I feel is also a bit of an extra reward for getting all 7 emeralds as Sonic.

I've been looking into some Zone Builder tutorials to see if I could recreate something like an infinite looping stage, maybe having a Torus shaped stage, altough I'm still not sure about all of the details.

What do you think, do you have any ideas of how a stage like that could work in SRB2?
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Old 08-07-2020   #2
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I've always liked the idea of a NiGHTS Super Sonic final boss. Not like the boss encounters in the actual NiGHTS games, but something closer to the way the special stages work so that you're not thrown into a completely different gameplay style. You go around collecting big shiny orbs of power (fancier and glowy-er than blue spheres), and once you get enough you can ram into the boss and destroy some of its armour. You do several rounds of this, like a multi-mare NiGHTS stage.
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Old 08-07-2020   #3
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If it's in 3D I could imagine something like Sonic Heroes (yes, you were basically on an invisible floor while being able to jump on it).


Or, as Unknownlight said, a Nights into dreams styled final boss (I really liked fighting Wizeman in it).
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Old 08-08-2020   #4
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A NiGHTs into Dreams style boss would be a good final boss. Especially if you have to dodge projectiles and what not.
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Old 08-08-2020   #5
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Honestly, im not the biggest fan of a final boss that plays like nights. If its done in 2d, id rather it be like in sonic 3 or mania. If its done in 3d, I second what Icarus says.
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Old 08-08-2020   #6
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
If it's in 3D I could imagine something like Sonic Heroes.
This is essentially the only way I see a "Super Sonic" boss looking like in SRB2. However, it's possible to create a 3D Doomsday Zone in the same manner-- you create a long map with an invisible floor, put rocks that cause knockback, and add lots of ring spawns while you chase a boss.

The thing is, we don't necessarily know what kind of boss we'd have to fight against as Super Sonic.

Normal Eggman with variations is just too bland and the fights can end up becoming stupidly annoying (see Mystic Realm Zone pre 2.2).

Brak doesn't really offer much and while he can knock Super Sonic back...that's about it. His fire and missiles and invincible electricity would not even harm him.

The only counter a boss has to Super Sonic due to his invincibility is knocking him back or stunning him so that he can't collect rings.
I'm not quite sure what kind of boss SRB2 could potentially add with the DOOM engine for Super Sonic, outside of NiGHTS variations of course. Though I don't think we'll be seeing anything at all from the NiGHTS style of gameplay in 2.3 and beyond.
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Old 08-08-2020   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jona View Post
However, it's possible to create a 3D Doomsday Zone in the same manner-- you create a long map with an invisible floor, put rocks that cause knockback, and add lots of ring spawns while you chase a boss.
A long stage wouldn't work, assuming that you'll eventually reach the limit, I think it would have to be a loop of some kind, so that you don't actually ever reach the end.

And yeah, I think there would need to be a new boss to make the new zone work better, not just reuse the already available bosses.
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Old 08-08-2020   #8
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The lack of ability to make an infinite stage, as you said, could potentially be made up for with a loop. You could just continue to teleport both the boss and the player(s) to the beginning of the "loop", and for each subsequent teleport, reset the ring/item/hazard spawns.

Personally for a boss idea I'd go for some kind of variation on Sonic Heroes' Egg Emperor. Having Eggman in an extravagant battle armor made specifically to go one-on-one with Super Sonic is exciting, and with his ability to create sword-based projectiles, charge with extraordinary power, and fire numerous amounts of missiles, there's something to be done there.
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Old 08-08-2020   #9
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I would like to see an gameplay like Starfox
where you are there being super sonic flying around a limited space meanwhile you shoot at the boss wich shoots you Bombs, Missiles, and that things... Something like that final boss of Subarashii.
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Old 08-08-2020   #10
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I would like to see an gameplay like Starfox
where you are there being super sonic flying around a limited space meanwhile you shoot at the boss wich shoots you Bombs, Missiles, and that things... Something like that final boss of Subarashii.
Oh right, the thing that was inspired by Planet Robobot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jona View Post
The thing is, we don't necessarily know what kind of boss we'd have to fight against as Super Sonic.

Normal Eggman with variations is just too bland and the fights can end up becoming stupidly annoying (see Mystic Realm Zone pre 2.2).

Brak doesn't really offer much and while he can knock Super Sonic back...that's about it. His fire and missiles and invincible electricity would not even harm him.
Honestly I would be fine if we saw some sort of "Super Brak" as long as super Sonic is in there.


But if you want a non-Robotnik final boss I would suggest to tell that something inside the Black Rock Core has awakened or that the entire Rock becomes sentient and wants to crash on Mobius (at least something seriously threatening for Sonic).
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Old 08-08-2020   #11
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A NiGHTS mode boss would be interesting to see.
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Old 08-08-2020   #12
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A NiGHTS mode boss would be interesting to see.
I agree but I also understand why some people don't want it as they're not a fan of this gameplay.
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Old 08-08-2020   #13
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Originally Posted by Unknownlight View Post
I've always liked the idea of a NiGHTS Super Sonic final boss. Not like the boss encounters in the actual NiGHTS games, but something closer to the way the special stages work so that you're not thrown into a completely different gameplay style. You go around collecting big shiny orbs of power (fancier and glowy-er than blue spheres), and once you get enough you can ram into the boss and destroy some of its armour. You do several rounds of this, like a multi-mare NiGHTS stage.
I'm with this. Mechanically it works as a nice reward for mastering the special stages too, as I'd imagine it'd be the hardest one.
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Old 08-08-2020   #14
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I'm with this. Mechanically it works as a nice reward for mastering the special stages too, as I'd imagine it'd be the hardest one.
Since you need to master the special stages to play the boss anyways you can make it hard while counting on the player having mastered the game.
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Old 08-08-2020   #15
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But if you want a non-Robotnik final boss I would suggest to tell that something inside the Black Rock Core has awakened or that the entire Rock becomes sentient and wants to crash on Mobius (at least something seriously threatening for Sonic).
It could literally be an Egg Rock.

The Egg Rock hatches.
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Old 08-08-2020   #16
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It could literally be an Egg Rock.

The Egg Rock hatches.
I didn't think about it. This sounds actually both cool and clever.
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Old 08-08-2020   #17
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Making it NiGHTs styled actually would feel pretty close to the way the original Doomsday Zone feels, especially if you're chasing Dr. Robotnik's Super Brak or whatever along a predefined path. I'd expect it to be a little more open than the special stages though so you can focus a little less on level geometry and a little more on finding rings and dodging high-knockback enemies.

I feel like a 3D doomsday zone would basically look like the original Mystic Realm, which is way better in theory than actually in practice, and for the same reason why the "collect rings" special stages were so frustrating. Collecting those tiny little rings in a 3D environment with total freedom of movement is difficult. If it's on-rails or pickups are easier to hit, that might be a different story (both of which are methods that modern Sonic games use for the super sonic levels if I remember correctly).

I haven't checked out the custom level / mod scene in a while. Has anyone played around with having a Doomsday style level (2d or 3d) since 2.2 came out?
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Old 08-08-2020   #18
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This Egg Reverie Super Sonic mod was created with the intention of enabling some kind of Super Sonic final boss. I think it would be more suitable for something like the SA2/SH/StH06 style of boss than a Doomsday type thing, though.
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Old 08-09-2020   #19
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Honestly, I'd either want one of three 'types' of finales for a Super Finale (Which I know the devs have mentioned they intend to add eventually, likely once everything else is done)

1: An actual final boss that is capable of going toe-to-toe with Super Sonic. Possibly something that, rather than only knocking you flying, maybe does a few rings worth of damage to you to make knockback mean a LOT more. alternatively, maybe the boss knocks you out of super-form every few times you hit them and you have to evade their attacks while re-collecting rings to go super again.

2: A super-sonic themed level, possibly an escape from Egg Rock or a charge into the Black Rock Core to disable it before Robotnik can escape with the power of the Black Rock. Either an escape or 'get to the end while Super' stage would be neat, but i'd prefer an actual full boss fight.

3: Some form of multi-stage boss- maybe every few hits it changes to the next phase of the fight. An example, as rough as it may be and very much would be changed;
Phase 1: Duel inside the Egg Rock. Fighting a boss with normal gameplay but with Super, and the boss is, naturally, set to fight a Super form.
Phase 2: Chase to the core+Escape from the core. Rushing after Robotnik on a Super-themed level, trying to keep your rings up as you make it to the end, followed by you having to flee as his machine enters the core and causes it to explode.
Phase 3: Duel Around the Collapsing Black Rock: A doomsday-zone/Egg Reverie Zone-esque battle where you chase and battle Robotnik for the final showdown, with a collapsing Black Rock in the background.
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Old 08-09-2020   #20
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I do like the idea of a NiGHTS style final boss. At least, it could use that as a base for flying around in a 3D environment, have respawning rings and a boss to chase. One other possibility that just came to mind, though, is Metal Sonic. He can go Super and go toe-to-toe with Super Sonic.
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