Armageddon shield usefulness discussion

On the topic of passive abilities, I do have some ideas as to how the Armageddon shield could be tweaked:

As I mentioned previously, it would be interesting and useful if it allows you to breath in a vacuum, but not underwater. I don't think Egg Rock has much in the way of water sections (Or any, for that matter) but custom levels could potentially make great use of this. As a tradeoff, perhaps the Elemental shield could lose the ability to let you breath in a vacuum, instead only preserving breath underwater. This could make for some interesting player choices built into level design.

Another idea is to make the player "radioactive" while they have the shield. Nearby enemies (But not bosses) that get too close to the player are marked for death, causing them to detonate after, say, five seconds. Still enough time for the player to take a hit if they aren't careful, but it would act as an assist in dealing with enemies.

Alternatively, enemies could be scripted to recognize that players have the shield, and try to avoid directly touching them so as to avoid destroying themselves. Some enemies could be an exception to this, such as the bees in AGZ.

Finally the last idea that comes to me is that it could be modified so that enemies that touch the shield actually stick to it (But not bosses or large enemies such as face stabbers). Using the shield on it's own has a fairly small radius, but for every enemy added to the shield the radius increases (Reaching max radius at about 15-20). As a bonus, ring and 1-up monitors can also stick to it. When you detonate the shield, everything stuck to you is also destroyed, and monitors take effect for the player. Eggman monitors also stick however, so the player should be careful.

Putting aside all these (interesting) suggestions for changing the armageddon shield, I'd like to bring up a claim someone made on the wiki's Level Design 101 page (presumably by someone who is fairly well-versed in level design):

SRB2's regular levels only use the five main shields: Attraction, Force, Armageddon, Whirlwind, and Elemental. They are designed to complement each other – for each shield, there are situations where the player would prefer it over all others. For example, Elemental is the most desirable shield in stages with elemental hazards, whereas Attraction is the most desirable when collecting rings in Record Attack. The Pity Shield was designed for Match, where it is given directly to weaker players but never spawns out of monitors. While there are valid ways to use it in Single Player maps, for example as the only available shield type on a map, don't simply use it in addition to the other shields. Because it is strictly weaker than all the others, the player will always want to replace it.

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With whirlwind, attraction, and elemental, there are plenty of scenarios where the player would desire them the most. Attraction if your priority is attracting rings; elemental if your priority is dealing with enemies, diving into goop, or protecting from elemental hazards; and whirlwind if your priority is reaching higher places or making platforming easier (or for me personally, almost all other scenarios). Force and armageddon, on the other hand, have a very debatable desirability. Two hits are all the force shield has going for it, and the game continuously implies with its tricky placement that the armageddon shield is extremely valuable and powerful when that couldn't be further from the case save for a few very specific scenarios. That's why I think the force shield could use a momentum-oriented ability that's not quite as powerful as the whirlwind shield's, and the armageddon shield can really just be removed from levels unless there's a very good reason to keep it in.

cookiefonster said:

Putting aside all these (interesting) suggestions for changing the armageddon shield, I'd like to bring up a claim someone made on the wiki's Level Design 101 page (presumably by someone who is fairly well-versed in level design):

The Pity Shield was designed for Match, where it is given directly to weaker players but never spawns out of monitors. While there are valid ways to use it in Single Player maps, for example as the only available shield type on a map, don't simply use it in addition to the other shields. Because it is strictly weaker than all the others, the player will always want to replace it.

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I would like to point out something specifically about this. Placing a shield that is deliberately worse than another shield that is also present in the level can be an entirely valid way of designing a level, if handled correctly. For example, you could place a pity shield early in the level in an obvious, easy to get to spot with the intention of the player grabbing it for the sake of having it until a later part of the level at which point it is within their best interest to grab a better shield that is available. Alternatively, pity shields could be placed in easy to get to spots while better shields could be placed in more hidden and/or hard to get to places.

This can apply beyond the pity shield as well, with a shield less suited to the current level's gimmick taking it's place.

cookiefonster said:

With whirlwind, attraction, and elemental, there are plenty of scenarios where the player would desire them the most. Attraction if your priority is attracting rings; elemental if your priority is dealing with enemies, diving into goop, or protecting from elemental hazards; and whirlwind if your priority is reaching higher places or making platforming easier (or for me personally, almost all other scenarios).

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Is Elemental really the best shield for dealing with enemies? The stomp isn't the best active ability for that purpose (the Attraction Shield's homing attack is arguably better), and the fire trail makes for a decent trap, but only for grounded enemies whose movements you can comfortably predict or lure. Unless the enemies in question are very spread-out spatially, I'd rather have Armageddon than any of the others, because its nuke kills everything (except Egg Guards) immediately, no matter if it normally takes multiple hits, and no matter if it has some kind of spiky bit that normally gets in the way of killing it. Plus, the Armageddon Shield is the only shield that still performs its function if and when you get hit by an enemy and lose it.

I really do think the Armageddon Shield's current concept (shield with super-powerful one-use ability) has enough potential to make it worth salvaging, with some modification. (Plus, the ability to make a big kaboom is just cool.)

742mph said:

Is Elemental really the best shield for dealing with enemies? The stomp isn't the best active ability for that purpose (the Attraction Shield's homing attack is arguably better), and the fire trail makes for a decent trap, but only for grounded enemies whose movements you can comfortably predict or lure.

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Not every enemy, but with some enemies, the stomp and trail of fire are very handy. Particularly Egg Guards, Lance-a-Bots, Green Snappers, and Crushstaceans (those specifically with the stomp).

Honestly the worst part of the nuke shield is just where its placed on levels, because it always seems super well hidden just like emerald tokens and emblems, and it always felt dissapointing to get it in that context, especially when all the other shields have more utility (tbh id be really cool if it was the SK3 shields, that would be a super awesome reward).
Also, i dont think it needs a movement ability, since the idea of a combat centric shield is really cool. The elemental and attraction shields can have applications of that sort, but has someone said they dont help with airborne enemies.
So basically if it was in places more normal for shields to be in, and had maybe a buffed insta shield active ability for example it would be much better, it would help in arid canyon dealing with those birds, and even the turtles if well timed, and can you imagine jumping through red volcano destroying those darned petordactyls in complete bliss, without a care in the world? Thats a world id like to live in. In general, just the idea of a disjointed attack seems good enough to me. And yes, i think it should have two abilities, almost every shield has it, i dont see why it should be different here.

Honestly the worst part of the nuke shield is just where its placed on levels, because it always seems super well hidden just like emerald tokens and emblems, and it always felt dissapointing to get it in that context, especially when all the other shields have more utility (tbh id be really cool if it was the SK3 shields, that would be a super awesome reward).

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If the Armaggedon Shield were to be scrapped, I like this idea of the S3K shields replacing them. Maybe they'd show up as a monitor flickering between the three, with you having to time hitting it to get the shield you want.