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Old 06-25-2020   #1
Trolo Bobo
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Default Mystic removal discussion - The good and the bad

Thread originally titled "So this is how it ends?"

A couple of days ago, I started noticing the surge of attention this game is gaining on youtube and in general, and that made me reflect on the fact that this truly is a special game of special quality, very carefully crafted.

But it wasn't always like this, if one compares different past eras of the game it's apparent that they were very different approaches, depending on who was on the team and what set of decisions were being made. I realized that the current high quality of the game was achieved because a very specific set of individuals combined their skills, and that as soon as the harmony of this system would be messed with, the game's quality would significantly decrease.

And just after thinking that, I came here only to read that some of the most major people in this project that were very adamant about certain ways the development of the game proceeds, have been removed from the team. It is most heartbreaking to hear such news, and to hear they happened out of very trivial matters such as accusations and mistrust. I have very little doubt that from this point on the game will be of any similar standard as before, and the people now in charge will surely make some stupid decisions such as removing the thok or something. I think it's safe to consider 2.2.4 the last "official" version of this game. Disappointing.
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Old 06-25-2020   #2
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Old 06-25-2020   #3
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Originally Posted by Unknownlight View Post
:)) I'm glad you're able to be positive amidst such drastic changes, I know you're one of the people that really believe in this game, a lot of what you said helped me shape my appreciation for it and the quality it got to. So, thanks for that :)
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Old 06-25-2020   #4
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Wait, what happened to my message?
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Old 06-25-2020   #5
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Without going too far into details... Mystic was not removed for "being a pedo". He was removed for other reasons, not relating to anything sexual. Rob and PrimeV2 were removed for other reasons as well. Just know that what comes next from the current dev team will result ina better game.
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Old 06-25-2020   #6
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Wait, what happened to my message?

I don't know, it was there and when I refreshed it disappeared. Anyway, I remember what you said, and from what I got in the original post Mystic did nothing of that sort himself, he antagonized a mod and accused someone else of hiding groomers. And certainly, you don't need all the developers, but you sure as heck need the big ones, who were in charge of making the crucial decisions.


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Without going too far into details... Mystic was not removed for "being a pedo". He was removed for other reasons, not relating to anything sexual. Rob and PrimeV2 were removed for other reasons as well. Just know that what comes next from the current dev team will result ina better game.

I hope so, I suppose only time will tell. But there's lots to worry about in terms of the direction of where things are going, at least given the information we currently have.
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Old 06-25-2020   #7
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Originally Posted by D00D64 View Post
Without going too far into details... Mystic was not removed for "being a pedo". He was removed for other reasons, not relating to anything sexual. Rob and PrimeV2 were removed for other reasons as well. Just know that what comes next from the current dev team will result ina better game.
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I don't know, it was there and when I refreshed it disappeared. Anyway, I remember what you said, and from what I got in the original post Mystic did nothing of that sort himself, he antagonized a mod and accused someone else of hiding groomers. And certainly, you don't need all the developers, but you sure as heck need the big ones, who were in charge of making the crucial decisions.
Oooh, ok. Must've misinterpreted James's news post, my bad. And about the dev thing, know I do definitely understand what you meant before. Without the big guys, the game may or may not become much worse. But hey, who knows what'll happen.
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Old 06-25-2020   #8
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The thing is, SRB2 doesn't need anyone in particular. Just look at the wealth of talented community members (not to mention Kart Krew and its community). There's honestly a staggering amount of quality content created for such an obscure little fangame.

SRB2 is not an auteur project, not in the slightest. For the last decade, every single person on the dev team was a fan of the game first, then became a dev later. You don't need to worry about further developments "betraying" the game's "core values" or something. Everyone who volunteers their time and effort on the game do so because they're already a big fan of what SRB2 already is, and want to work toward making it even better.

So no, I'm not worried.
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Old 06-25-2020   #9
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The thing is, SRB2 doesn't need anyone in particular. Just look at the wealth of talented community members (not to mention Kart Krew and its community). There's honestly a staggering amount of quality content created for such an obscure little fangame.

SRB2 is not an auteur project, not in the slightest. For the last decade, every single person on the dev team was a fan of the game first, then became a dev later. You don't need to worry about further developments "betraying" the game's "core values" or something. Everyone who volunteers their time and effort on the game do so because they're already a big fan of what SRB2 already is, and want to work toward making it even better.

So no, I'm not worried.
I agree with the wise words you speak, undiscovered source of light.
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Old 06-25-2020   #10
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A realization to make about this situation is that the developers are free-er birds now in what they want to do to help each other create the game they want to make, no longer encaged by particular inflexible design decisions brought down by the people whom since left. There exists a keen interest that's in me to see the direction this will go in the coming years, I dunno about you.
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Old 06-25-2020   #11
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Though it is certainly a shame that things ended up this way, it's very misguided to think that the quality of a work of media, especially one with such a large team behind it as SRB2, will nosedive just because three of its contributors were booted from dev. I don't know a whole lot about the people behind SRB2, but I do know that many people have joined and left the dev team over the years.
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Old 06-25-2020   #12
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I think it's a good idea to stay optimistic. Give the new people some time to prove themselves. In the end, this is all about learning and having fun.
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Old 06-25-2020   #13
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Originally Posted by cookiefonster View Post
Though it is certainly a shame that things ended up this way, it's very misguided to think that the quality of a work of media, especially one with such a large team behind it as SRB2, will nosedive just because three of its contributors were booted from dev. I don't know a whole lot about the people behind SRB2, but I do know that many people have joined and left the dev team over the years.
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I think it's a good idea to stay optimistic. Give the new people some time to prove themselves. In the end, this is all about learning and having fun.
Once again, agreed.
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Old 06-25-2020   #14
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I'm pretty positive for the future of this game still! There's still a lot of core staff who worked on 2.2 in STJr after all, and this has always been a big group passion project rather than the vision of a small group of directors calling the shots anyway.

I'm pretty sad to see Mystic and Rob go as they were still people I was quite cordial with on the Discord server and could have a nice talk to. But what's done is done, and bans have been handed out now. I view Prime 2.0 as a friend but it's not like he's banned from the community, he has just been removed from the administrative team. So I'm sure he'll be back to some capacity eventually once things have settled down a bit.

Besides, if you want to argue that the game might get off track now that the old directors are no longer in charge. It survived one total leadership change before, when SSNtails and Sonikku stepped down from the project, it can survive another! I think things will turn out alright.
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Old 06-25-2020   #15
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Maybe this thread should be deleted. And honestly if you're disappointed in where SRB2 is going then you're free to make your own fan-game (instead of complaining).
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Old 06-25-2020   #16
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If there's anything I've learned from SRB2 and MOTHER 4/Oddity, it's that some fan projects are very resilient, and despite the changes throughout the years are still capable of going strong, even if it is at their usual "when it's done" pace.

SRB2 will survive this.
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Old 06-26-2020   #17
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I would also point out that ditching problematic people from any fandom is actually a good thing, whether you agree with it or not.


I don't want people to see the fandom of that game as people who accepts such individual.


Let's not forget that Sonic was created to appeal to young teenagers first.
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Old 06-26-2020   #18
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I am disappointed to see that Mystic is gone, personally. I don't want to step on any toes, but I always highly respected his firmness in his design decisions--even the ones I highly disagreed with, he gave his reasons for their implementation, and I could find no fault. (Edited to add: I hope no one interprets this to mean I'm okay with Mystic's behavior that made him step down from the team though, or any one else's for that matter. This can't have been an easy decision for anyone.)

But I've been a fan of this game since the final demo days. I remember feeling uneasy when SSNTails himself stepped back from development too, worried the game would get worse or even stop being made. Not to mention the various other team members who've come and gone since then. But look at it now. Better than it's ever been, stronger than ever, and thriving.

This is all pretty sudden, I guess. But I'm with SSNTails on this. Let's be optimistic.
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Old 06-26-2020   #19
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Recent developments suggest the game is going to get better and more popular, not less (at least in the near term).

The gitlab data shows the usual trickle of fixes and improvements, but there has been a lot of work toward making OpenGL a first class rendering option that may eventually replace Software as the default. Once that occurs, we should see a lot of visual bugs related to FoF's and polyobjects just vanish, and as a bonus it will also bring somewhat better graphics (which will be a major boon for content creators).

Other than that, the game is maybe 8 acts away from being called complete (outside of possible redos of existing zones). What happens afterward is anyone's guess (though the game's source-code in general could use a bit of refactoring work).
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Old 06-26-2020   #20
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In the interests of professionality, I'll refrain from commenting on the events leading up to the team's internal restructuring in much detail. However, I'd strongly encourage any skeptics to consider that the team would not have followed through with this series of decisions if there wasn't a massive amount of precedent to do so.
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