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-   -   Suggestions (https://mb.srb2.org/showthread.php?t=30800)

CST1229 09-07-2020 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishandChips (Post 834487)
add Brak as a playable character in srb2 again!

Brak wasn't ever a playable character.
It was an addon.

---------- Post added at 09:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 AM ----------
Quote:

How about just letting straight up Sonic run on walls like you see in those fangames like Sonic Utopia or Green Hill Paradise? It would require less sprites (the only sprites required would be if there isn't much momentum in the wall run which makes it more of a slide).
There would be a some additional sprites required, which are the running on walls 90 degrees animation. You would only need walking and running though. (Or just running if you need to be above runspeed to run on walls).

Shadon 09-08-2020 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CST1229 (Post 835447)
There would be a some additional sprites required, which are the running on walls 90 degrees animation. You would only need walking and running though. (Or just running if you need to be above runspeed to run on walls).

Nah, they could just implement something like this for that. Even if they didn't, adding new sprites is time consuming, but it's not undoable.

The real problem is that the Doom engine interprets walls in a fundamentally different way to floors, so you can't just have the floor curve into them and transition into wall-running the way a Sonic Adventure 1 or any game where you can change the gravity by 90 degrees could, especially not in a way that retains momentum. This is the reason the game doesn't have loops.

Zwip-Zwap Zapony 09-08-2020 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadon (Post 835553)
Nah, they could just implement something like this for that. [...]

That would not allow you to see the player from above, which is required for running on a wall while the camera is facing directly onto that wall, because there's no running sprites seen from above.
You could argue that the camera could just always be put on the side of the wall, so that you always see the character from the side... but a counter-argument to that is the existence of multiplayer, where a different player could be watching the wall head-on from afar, and moving that player's camera because another player is running on a wall is not good.

This is ignoring the similar lack of 45-degrees-up and 45-degrees-down running sprites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadon (Post 835553)
[...] Even if they didn't, adding new sprites is time consuming, but it's not undoable. [...]

Perhaps, but even if the time is taken for the vanilla SRB2 characters, then comes the problem that it increases the minimum sprite count for a "complete" character by 48 (4 45-degrees-up, 4 45-degrees-down, and 4 90-degrees-up angles, times 4 frames for a standard run cycle; the rest(?) of the sprites can be sampled from other sprites rotated around), which in turn means that custom character authors must either create additional sprites for that (which can be upsetting if they're already struggling to make the current required sprites), "cheat" by not making those unique angle sprites (which looks bad in comparison), or not let their character wall-run (which plays bad in comparison). None of those options are favourable for custom character authors.

Slightly less objectively, it would also require map authors to think twice to not accidentally let a player run up or along a wall to skip a platforming segment, making map design harder, unless they just don't use slopes beside walls anywhere.

Soufon 09-08-2020 01:32 PM

Quote:

Nah, they could just implement something like this for that. [...]
The only way I could see wall-running without needing new sprites looking at least somewhat convincing would be to turn character sprites into paper sprites, literally tilting them along the wall in a way that would probably not look very good.

time gear 09-08-2020 01:51 PM

In regards to running on walls, it might be a bit of a lazy solution but the player could just be forced into spin animation frames rotated to appear as though rolling along the wall. It would allow the player to be seen from above and below without issues as it could just use the sprites to see spinning players from the side for that, and players looking at the player from horizontally could just see the ordinary "behind" spin sprites spinning in the direction the player is facing.

Shadon 09-09-2020 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwip-Zwap Zapony (Post 835559)
That would not allow you to see the player from above, which is required for running on a wall while the camera is facing directly onto that wall, because there's no running sprites seen from above.
You could argue that the camera could just always be put on the side of the wall, so that you always see the character from the side... but a counter-argument to that is the existence of multiplayer, where a different player could be watching the wall head-on from afar, and moving that player's camera because another player is running on a wall is not good.

This is ignoring the similar lack of 45-degrees-up and 45-degrees-down running sprites.

I mean, by that logic, we should have had a problem the moment the game let you angle the camera downward or look at other players from above, right?

Either way, my point was that throttling Doom's engine enough to make wall-running work natively would probably be a bigger development challenge than simple aesthetic issues.

FoxDude 09-10-2020 01:18 AM

Loops, just make it temporarily change your gravity and make it so you get a little vertical boost on the sections you cannot run on.

BlueZero4 09-13-2020 04:30 PM

Freedom Planet's design for underwater bubbles is great.

There's a big air bubble that stays on the ground at all times. You walk up to the bubble, catch a breath, and then you keep walking.

I have died to drowning underwater a lot because I don't look for a bubble until the timer starts. When I finally get to the bubble station, I stand on the bubble spawner for 2 seconds and then drown.

As a player, I've seen the drowning warning, I've found a bubble station, and I'm standing on it. Have I demonstrated my skill adequately to the game, or am I still just bad?

MRoach 09-13-2020 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocklight124 (Post 834939)
You know what never mind you guys don't get it.

This is just nitpicky, you are complaining because you want to complete the game as Cyan Sonic... You might just edit Sonic's color with Lua and use custom save; making a suggestion for this wouldn't be a bad idea, just make it already.

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by time gear (Post 835565)
In regards to running on walls, it might be a bit of a lazy solution but the player could just be forced into spin animation frames rotated to appear as though rolling along the wall. It would allow the player to be seen from above and below without issues as it could just use the sprites to see spinning players from the side for that, and players looking at the player from horizontally could just see the ordinary "behind" spin sprites spinning in the direction the player is facing.

Making a fully 3D models based wall-running system would just be easier. Performance might be a problem, though.

GrayAngel 09-13-2020 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueZero4 (Post 836088)
Freedom Planet's design for underwater bubbles is great.

There's a big air bubble that stays on the ground at all times. You walk up to the bubble, catch a breath, and then you keep walking.

I have died to drowning underwater a lot because I don't look for a bubble until the timer starts. When I finally get to the bubble station, I stand on the bubble spawner for 2 seconds and then drown.

As a player, I've seen the drowning warning, I've found a bubble station, and I'm standing on it. Have I demonstrated my skill adequately to the game, or am I still just bad?

Now that you mention it, I do think one thing that would make water levels more enjoyable (there seems to be a general consensus that water levels are the worst ones) is to make it so you don't have to stop for bubbles. But having a big bubble defy gravity by just sitting there wouldn't look great either. What if the bubble spots constantly spawned big bubbles? Then you could just grab a bubble and keep going, rather than having to wait a few seconds for a big bubble to spawn.

Personally, I like a good water level. The possibility of drowning creates a mild tension, which I enjoy, as long as the bubbles are easy to find and are plentiful enough that it doesn't feel unfair. But standing in place, waiting for a big bubble to spawn, can be a bit annoying. Especially when you're close to drowning, and you're like, "Just spawn already!"

Kaysakado 09-13-2020 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueZero4 (Post 836088)
I have died to drowning underwater a lot because I don't look for a bubble until the timer starts. When I finally get to the bubble station, I stand on the bubble spawner for 2 seconds and then drown.

As a player, I've seen the drowning warning, I've found a bubble station, and I'm standing on it. Have I demonstrated my skill adequately to the game, or am I still just bad?

I think this is an intersection of messaging, map design, and risk vs. reward issues. On one end of the spectrum - when I was a kid playing the genesis games, I stopped for a bubble every single time I saw a bubble station - even if I had literally just picked one up. Very little risk, but interrupts my ability to keep momentum and get through the section smoothly. On the other end of the spectrum - not looking for a bubble at all until the timer starts. This is very risky, but for sure feels better when you can execute cleanly.

The ding-ding [Aquaphobia] sfx is not be underestimated - these days, I'm personally paying more attention to this in long underwater segments as far as keeping track of my air goes. If I hear the drowning timer at all, I take that as a sign that I'm really in hot shit now rather than a cue that I should start looking for at air at this point. Metal Sonic, too, has some sparking sound effects that begin to indicate drowning before the actual timer starts. Maybe these kinds of cues need to have more weight behind them?

As far as map design goes, there's plenty of factors the designer can play with in re: bubble placement - how frequently they're placed, how accessible they are, how obvious their locations are. And, maybe more importantly, how these factors change over the course of the level, once a standard has been established - there's one hallway I don't like in DSZ1 that suddenly has no air bubbles, despite them being pretty liberally placed throughout the rest of the level - I drowned there a couple of times before I realized that, yes, I really do need to take the bubble in the room before despite not thinking I need it. ATZ's an interesting case - I get very few air bubbles from the ground in this map because I always know there's gonna be a Buggle coming up.

All that said, I do think the bubble spawners could be slightly more consistent about the frequency of spawning. There's no RNG involved, but the way the math is set up can occasionally cause two bubbles to spawn with a much longer than average time in between, which can really be a killer.

time gear 09-14-2020 01:34 AM

Something that might help with underwater sections is an air meter, perhaps appearing above the lives counter or something, which is separated into a few different sections. As a section fully depletes, the player hears the "ding-ding" sound, until finally they reach the final section of the meter which starts playing the music.

This would help communicate to the player early on that their breath is limited and give them a sense for how much time they have to breath through an easily readable visual cue. As such, players would be more conscious of the need to find air bubbles, and might start keeping an eye out for them before they start hearing the music, theoretically leading to fewer deaths because of it.

As for the bubbles themselves, perhaps the spawn locations for bubbles could be made just a little bit more visually distinct so that they don't blend into the environment too much while players are looking for them. Perhaps increase the number of tiny bubbles rising off from those spots a bit to act as markers?

Mr.Siphon 09-14-2020 02:05 AM

Junio
 
Maybe Junio's jump could be his falling sprite and you press shift to curl and uncurl

NAR the Fox 09-14-2020 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Siphon (Post 836132)
Maybe Junio's jump could be his falling sprite and you press shift to curl and uncurl

I think you're looking for Junio Sonic's release thread, because this is for suggestions about the vanilla game.

time gear 10-03-2020 05:20 AM

Here's an idea for the MB I have had for a while. Probably not the first person to think of or even request something like this, but here it is anyway:

Subforums for the levels subforum in Releases. "Single Player" and "Multiplayer", each divided further into "Single Maps/Zones" and "Map Packs" respectively. This would make things much easier for people looking for specific types of levels to download. Everything similar would be all in one place, allowing for quick and easy viewing of many submissions of what the user is looking for in a short time span without wasting time looking at pages for types of map they aren't interested in at the moment. Perhaps there could also be a division for levels/packs that fall into a grey area, if necessary.

GuiDalla98BR 10-03-2020 07:16 PM

i suggest that we could create a file with modified game,it would be actually pretty good

SilverVortex 10-03-2020 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuiDalla98BR (Post 837988)
i suggest that we could create a file with modified game,it would be actually pretty good


this already exists, though it is a separate save file, meaning that you won't carry over progress between files.
https://mb.srb2.org/showthread.php?t=45730

Krabs 10-04-2020 12:54 AM

I'd really prefer if .ssg and other save files were stored in a saves directory.

MK.exe 10-04-2020 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krabs (Post 838015)
I'd really prefer if .ssg and other save files were stored in a saves directory.

I like this, so we have have our saves nice and comfy in a folder. Plus it makes it easier to transfer all saves from different systems.

time gear 10-04-2020 03:48 AM

I had an idea of a potential move to give Sonic when his thok is replaced: "Drop Bounce". In the past I have suggested giving Sonic the SA2 bounce, but it seems to have been met with criticism that it would require a level of precision that new players can't be expected to perform. I still disagree, but I thought up a solution regardless.

The "Drop Bounce" idea I had works as follows:

-While in a jump state, the player can press jump again to enter a preparation state, with a visual and audio indication similar to when the player is entering a Drop Dash. This does not shoot Sonic downward, but rather he finishes his jump normally as if jump hadn't been pressed again at all. When touching the ground, the player will bounce back up into the air immediately, reaching ordinary jump height. This height is boosted somewhat by landing on a monitor or badnik instead of the ground. From here, the player can press jump again at any time to uncurl into a double jump that leaves Sonic vulnerable but grants him additional height. Sonic can still use shield powers in this state, so for example if you want to turn it into a triple jump with the whirlwind shield or electric shield, you can.

-If the player is in the preparation state and touches a wall instead of an enemy, monitor, or the floor, it will send Sonic straight up, giving him a little bit of a boost over his normal jump height to help clear certain cliffs he otherwise couldn't reach.

-If the player jumps from a high cliff and enters the preparation state, they will bounce back up just as high as they fell from after hitting the ground. Hitting a badnik or monitor adds a bit of height.

-If the player is in the preparation state and is physically touched by an enemy in a way that wouldn't hurt the enemy, the state is canceled and Sonic takes a hit. If he is touched by a projectile fired by a non-player, it is returned in the direction it was sent. In PvP, projectiles fired by players will cause Sonic to take a hit.

-Because the preparation state does not shoot Sonic downward, the player should have plenty of control over where Sonic lands, the same amount of control as usual.

-After transforming into Super Sonic, Sonic can enter the preparation state again after performing a double jump out of the bounce. This can allow Sonic to slowly gain height so long as he doesn't touch a bottomless pit, which will still kill him.


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