What do you think about the possibility of the new Sonic game being an open world?

[time gear]

I don't think you're getting what I said, Sonic Utopia is already 100x better than anything Sega has done, will still probably be better than that so-called "Sonic Rangers" and Forces.

Utopia isn't an open world game, it's just a lot less linear than most other Sonic games. It still has a definitive beginning point and end point for the level. Also, a bit of a hot take here, but Utopia isn't even all that impressive. It certainly does have a few good ideas, but a somewhat fun moveset and a playground level to toy around with it in doesn't make the game better than anything SEGA has done. The game will need to actually be finished to be able to even make a proper comparison. It's a proof of concept tech demo, nothing more.

Also if it ain't broken don't try fixing it

Innovation is a necessary piece of the industry as a whole. There's no such thing as a perfect game, and more of the same gets old fast. Even Mario has to deal with this problem. Mario 64 was good and all, but the devs knew moving into Sunshine that just making the same game again but with different level design wasn't going to cut it. The same is true for Galaxy and then Odyssey. Even the 2D Mario games shake things up from title to title.

Sonic is no different. If the devs are unable or unwilling to innovate and try new things with each new title, the franchise will lose it's novelty and fade into obscurity. They've long since gotten the memo that the fanbase likes the boost formula, so I doubt the new game will remove it entirely. However, if they are finding a new way of going about it, that isn't a bad thing. It isn't a matter of whether or not it's broken. It's a matter of whether or not it's getting old and needs a fresh coat a paint. In the case of the boost formula, we've seen it used in Unleashed, Colors, Generations, and Forces. A new, unique way of going about it is certainly something that should be on the table.

 

[dj_is_raiden]

i don't like the idea of an open world sonic game because it reminds me of this

Post automatically merged: May 31, 2021

i want a full sega arcade style sonic game with tones of gamemodes and stuff

 

[Bijman]

Open world idea really fits Sonic's personality, since he loves running, exploring world and chilling.
Now Sonic Team only needs to implement it to be fun and worth of time, and I am going to be cautiously optimistic about this project, although some game testers confessions (not buying it entirely) are in different light.

 

[Icarus]

Utopia isn't an open world game, it's just a lot less linear than most other Sonic games. It still has a definitive beginning point and end point for the level. Also, a bit of a hot take here, but Utopia isn't even all that impressive. It certainly does have a few good ideas, but a somewhat fun moveset and a playground level to toy around with it in doesn't make the game better than anything SEGA has done. The game will need to actually be finished to be able to even make a proper comparison. It's a proof of concept tech demo, nothing more.

Excuse me? Wasn't Utopia's biggest selling point the "openness" of its level design?
I know it's not an Open World in the strict sense (it's not GTA nor Minecraft nor TES) but it's open enough to not be linear

Innovation is a necessary piece of the industry as a whole. There's no such thing as a perfect game, and more of the same gets old fast. Even Mario has to deal with this problem. Mario 64 was good and all, but the devs knew moving into Sunshine that just making the same game again but with different level design wasn't going to cut it. The same is true for Galaxy and then Odyssey. Even the 2D Mario games shake things up from title to title.

Sonic is no different. If the devs are unable or unwilling to innovate and try new things with each new title, the franchise will lose it's novelty and fade into obscurity. They've long since gotten the memo that the fanbase likes the boost formula, so I doubt the new game will remove it entirely. However, if they are finding a new way of going about it, that isn't a bad thing. It isn't a matter of whether or not it's broken. It's a matter of whether or not it's getting old and needs a fresh coat a paint. In the case of the boost formula, we've seen it used in Unleashed, Colors, Generations, and Forces. A new, unique way of going about it is certainly something that should be on the table.

The main problem is that Sega are trying too hard to innovate it has backfired, the DreamCast was a real innovation but it got crushed by the PlayStation 2 sales wise simply because people wanted the sequel to the first one, not an innovative gaming console.

Sega tried to hard to innovate that the Sonic series got in an identity crisis and yet people loved Sonic Mania, a game that literally was mostly made of nostalgia over any innovation.

Maybe Sega should try not changing what is working before trying anything new.

 

[time gear]

Excuse me? Wasn't Utopia's biggest selling point the "openness" of its level design?
I know it's not an Open World in the strict sense (it's not GTA nor Minecraft nor TES) but it's open enough to not be linear

There's a lot more to a game being Open World than just not being linear. They are hugely ambitious projects.

The main problem is that Sega are trying too hard to innovate it has backfired, the DreamCast was a real innovation but it got crushed by the PlayStation 2 sales wise simply because people wanted the sequel to the first one, not an innovative gaming console.

Sega tried to hard to innovate that the Sonic series got in an identity crisis and yet people loved Sonic Mania, a game that literally was mostly made of nostalgia over any innovation.

Maybe Sega should try not changing what is working before trying anything new.

The PS2 is an innovative game console. Due to it's higher capabilities, it was capable of running games that were far more expansive and ambitious than the PS1 would allow, and while the PS1 had support for dual analog controllers the PS2 was the first of it's line to launch with it's controllers already having it.

The problem with SEGA's innovation isn't SEGA. It's the fanbase. They are a divided fustercluck of entitlement that go off into their own little tribal corners begging and pleading for the next Sonic game to fit into their own personal favorite style, and then whining and review bombing when they don't get it. The vast majority of the Sonic games between 1999 and 2009 were mediocre at worst and were more hit than miss, but the fanbase imagined up a "Dark age" that didn't exist so they could complain about Sonic "not being good anymore" even though most of his games were selling just fine.

Sonic never had an identity crisis. While a number of different formulas have been used over time, they all generally fall into at least one of the same two gameplay styles with occasional room for overlap; Classic and Homing Attack. Sometimes Sonic focuses on new abilities he didn't have before at the expense of certain other abilities, but the core gameplay of running down more or less linear levels while occasionally using the homing attack has been preserved through all of the 3D titles. An attempt at expanding out of this linear design mentality into more of an Open World environment is a bold and risky one, but not one I think is something that should immediately be shunned before we even get to see gameplay of what they have worked on.

 

[Chezi]

Maybe Sega should try not changing what is working before trying anything new.

It’s this exact reasoning that the New Super Mario Brothers series is getting tiresome. They hardly change up the gameplay, so there’s no real reason to play the new one. I’ve skipped out on Forces not because I heard it was bad, but because it uses the same formula as the three previous games (Not including Lost World). If Sega just makes another Boost game, not as many people are going to give a shit about it simply because we’ve been playing that since 2008. Innovation is key when it comes to designing new games and introducing new concepts that a series has never seen before.

 

[Icarus]

It’s this exact reasoning that the New Super Mario Brothers series is getting tiresome. They hardly change up the gameplay, so there’s no real reason to play the new one. I’ve skipped out on Forces not because I heard it was bad, but because it uses the same formula as the three previous games (Not including Lost World). If Sega just makes another Boost game, not as many people are going to give a shit about it simply because we’ve been playing that since 2008. Innovation is key when it comes to designing new games and introducing new concepts that a series has never seen before.

Ironically the NSMB games are still better than Sonic 4 or Lost World.

 

[Chezi]

Ironically the NSMB games are still better than Sonic 4 or Lost World.

Doesn’t change the fact that in the scope of the Mario series, they’re considered some of the worst mainline games because of this failure to innovate

 

[time gear]

Ironically the NSMB games are still better than Sonic 4 or Lost World.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I actually really like Lost World. The Wii U/PC version, anyway. I enjoy the NSMB games, but I like Sonic Lost World more.

 

[Icarus]

Doesn’t change the fact that in the scope of the Mario series, they’re considered some of the worst mainline games because of this failure to innovate

Excuse me? The first one on the DS (and the Wii sequel to a certain extend) are still good games, not the greatest but far from the worse simply because they do what they're meant to do well.

We don't always need to reinvent the wheel or bring something new to the table to make it good.

 

[time gear]

We don't always need to reinvent the wheel or bring something new to the table to make it good.

But you do need to bring something new to the table to keep a franchise relevant. Good ideas are novel, and novelty fades. Play too much of your favorite game and you will get burned out. If your favorite franchise can't bring anything new to the table and keeps releasing sameish games over and over, the same thing happens. Eventually people grow tired of the same old same old, and move on to whatever the latest hip new novel idea is. Great franchises turn into cult classics and fade into obscurity with little else but a cult fandom left playing it.

Think about the transition from Unleashed to Colors. Do you really think Colors would have performed anywhere near as well as it did if it didn't have the wisps? They kept the same core gameplay from the Unleashed daytime stages, but innovated on top of it with a brand new collection of power ups. Even moving on to Generations you get skill windows that you can place a variety of unlockable skills into that do cool things like give you infinite boost at the cost of being unable to collect rings, etc.

On top of all that, the games that live on the longest are ones like Generations that have active modding communities. This is because mods extend the novelty of a game by putting the burden of new content into the hands of the fanbase. As long as the modding community is alive, there's a near infinite pool of ever releasing new content to keep the game novel and thus preserve it's playerbase.

It's an unavoidable fact of life. If you can't keep things fresh, they go stale.

 

[Darknik]

Ironically the NSMB games are still better than Sonic 4 or Lost World.

I really liked Sonic 4 a lot more than the NSMB but that's just my opinion Although I admit that in terms of a classic sonic style game it's not the best but I find it very entertaining

 

[Chezi]

Excuse me? The first one on the DS (and the Wii sequel to a certain extend) are still good games, not the greatest but far from the worse simply because they do what they're meant to do well.

We don't always need to reinvent the wheel or bring something new to the table to make it good.

Ok, but what about NSMB2 and NSMBU? They do almost nothing to change up the core gameplay other than add a few new power ups. Obviously the first and second one are going to be good, but they failed to innovate and the third and fourth are mediocre

 

[Icarus]

I'd rather get a Mania sequel over a Forces sequel, thanks.

PS: NSMBU and 2 were kinda boring I agree but they're still better than Sonic 4 Episode 1 and 2.

 

[Chezi]

I'd rather get a Mania sequel over a Forces sequel, thanks.

Not sure what this had to do with the discussion, but Mania was good because it innovated the Classic Formula, similar to the Advance series. Forces hardly had any innovation.

PS: NSMBU and 2 were kinda boring I agree but they're still better than Sonic 4 Episode 1 and 2.

Yes, they are boring, but that’s because Nintendo was going off of what already works. The NSMB formula has proven to make a consistent quality for a game, but using it over and over again resulted in a boring experience. If Sega does what you said they should do, which was go off of what works, than we’re going to get boring games. That’s just how it works