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Old 09-20-2020   #21
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Originally Posted by Tjoc55 View Post
How is super Mario 64 the best 3D game of all time? Mario Sunshine and Mario Odyssey are better. Also majora's mask is better than ocarina of time.
Wait, it's not an opinion, it's a fact agreed upon Mario and Zelda fans. I don't even like 3D Zelda games that much but I agree.
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Old 09-20-2020   #22
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Wait, it's not an opinion, it's a fact agreed upon Mario and Zelda fans. I don't even like 3D Zelda games that much but I agree.
you'd be surprised how much both diehard mario and zelda fans disagree with that, believe me.
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Old 09-20-2020   #23
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Wait, it's not an opinion, it's a fact agreed upon Mario and Zelda fans. I don't even like 3D Zelda games that much but I agree.
I should point out that popular opinion is still an opinion :V
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Old 09-20-2020   #24
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Removed BLJ, cut So Long Gay Bowser, no real significant updates.


I don't know man it just seems like a waste. Especially since I can get better quality out of my emulaaa- totally legit files.


Given it would be nice to have it on Switch but as someone who's strapped for cash lately and just not seeing that much benefit to it, I don't see the value of it.
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Old 09-20-2020   #25
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Wait, it's not an opinion, it's a fact agreed upon Mario and Zelda fans. I don't even like 3D Zelda games that much but I agree.
Popular opinions are still opinions. Something agreed upon by many people doesn't make it factual. That statement also makes people who don't like those games look stupid. I personally think Odyssey is miles better than 64, but I'm not trying to drag 64 down. It's a great game for it's time. An opinion isn't fact. Opinions can never be fact, no matter how many people agree with it.
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Old 09-21-2020   #26
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Say it with me kids: Emulation is not a bad word. Emulators also take effort to develop, even if you work for Nintendo and have all the system documentation. Emulators don't just magically come into existence you know, and they don't just download emulators from the Internet and sell them to you either.

I've said it on Twitter and I'll say it here. Anyone who says the words "lazy port" over the next couple of months has to sit down and develop an entire GameCube emulator from scratch without referencing Dolphin's work.

Calling them "straight emulations" is also terribly wrong:
  • SM64 has lua scripts to patch several things on the fly, such as texture changes or different language packs. The quality of the emulation is also leaps and bounds ahead of what was present in previous Virtual Console versions, particularly when it comes to input latency. But I guess you just see black borders, flip your lids and sputter "BAD EMULATION!" (Also, shut up about the native PC port. That didn't appear overnight either, it took years of work.)
  • Sunshine may have some weirdness in its visual presentation and not be enhanced to run at 60fps (can the Switch even handle that through emulation?) but it is widescreen, the HUD has been modified to fit the extra screen real estate, the textures are upscaled, and honestly looks and plays fine compared to the original. I have my own criticisms of its presentation and the lack of GameCube controller support, but the fact that it's emulated isn't a bad thing. Controls aside it's perfectly on par with the original.
  • Galaxy literally cannot be considered "straight emulation" because its core game code has been recompiled to run natively on Switch's ARM architecture. Graphics and audio are emulated but the game logic isn't. This is actually similar to how the first Mega Man Legacy Collection works. (the other Mega Man Legacy Collections are fully native ports, at least in the most part.) Plus it's also just a really solid port and they even re-rendered the original pre-rendered cutscenes in HD (rather than upscaling them like in Sunshine). Like come on, this is all basic knowledge you can easily find online.

There's a lot of misinformation floating around and a lot of that is being spread willfully. There's a lot of criticism to be made with this collection, sure, but the quality of the ports and the overall gameplay experience are absolutely on par with what one should expect compared to the original games.

If you're gonna criticise anything, maybe talk about the lack of camera inversion toggles, or the lack of any sort of gallery or museum aside from the
soundtracks (which is a great touch, don't get me wrong.) But poo-pooing this collection because you heard some attention-seeking dataminer say "emulation" and didn't even bother to investigate it further is incredibly dishonest.

Not to mention that it's abundantly clear from anyone who did bother to do the research that the technology development that went into Super Mario 3D All-Stars paves the way for a framework to easily port other classic N64, GameCube and Wii games. There's a ton of games from that era that are now more viable from a development standpoint to bring over than ever. Personally I see this as an absolute win.

(Also, regarding SM64's changes like rumble support, nerfed BLJ and one particular voice line, these all come from the decades old Shindou Edition of the game that was sold in Japan. The reason Mario no-longer says "so long, King Bowser!" is because Bowser is called King Koopa in Japan.)

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and it is the only console release of Sonic the Fighters that I'm aware of.
That's Sonic Gems Collection. Please at least try and get your facts straight if you're going to be weirdly inconsistent with how you apply your criticism.

Gems is a pretty terrible quality collection too tbh. Sonic R and Fighters are fine, good even, but CD is a pretty lacklustre port especially in PAL regions, where it still uses the USA soundtrack and runs slower (at least on PS2, idk if GC comes with a 60hz mode), and the assortment of games in general is just pretty weak.

People were critical of it at the time too, but I guess since this is a Sonic messageboard and that collection is 15 years old it's the best thing ever created.
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Old 09-21-2020   #27
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That's Sonic Gems Collection. Please at least try and get your facts straight if you're going to be weirdly inconsistent with how you apply your criticism.
Honest mix-up on my end. Also, not really understanding the passive aggression here.
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Old 09-21-2020   #28
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Also I should clarify, I realise that "on par with" is a pretty low bar for quality, but the reason I bring it up is because a surprising amount of HD ports of games don't even go as far as meeting that standard.

The ZoE and Silent Hill HD collections are perhaps notorious examples that surely need no introduction. Devil May Cry HD Collection is horribly bare bones and DMC3 is a particularly poor showing in terms of replicating PS2-specific graphical effects. Some of Square-Enix's classic revivals also have some weird issues, like the performance in FF7, 8 and 9 being worse than the originals (due to some interesting PSone hardware features not being easily replicated on modern hardware) or timing issues in FF6 and Chrono Trigger related to music and audio cues.

And most of Sega's ports of games from that era have been pretty shoddy too. Sonic Adventure 1's various post-DX ports have utterly broken graphics and audio, and SA2's 2012 port is not much better. Things like NiGHTS's HD-port-of-the-PS2-remake and stuff have similar issues. Heroes, Riders and Sonic R have absolutely busted PC ports from back in the day too. Not to mention that Sega has released plenty of sub-par collections, most recently the Sega Mega Drive Classics on Steam and current consoles, which has poor scaling, and on Switch in particular, immensely noticeable input latency. It's very much quantity over quality. Except not really since the Switch version also removes the two Wonder Boy games.

I feel like "plays accurately to the original", "no noticable added input latency" and "graphical effects are replicated properly with no serious issues" is a more than reasonable bar when it's so rare to see anything as accurate as what SM3DAS has delivered. Don't get me wrong, they're certainly not without their flaws even in this department, i've seen plenty of graphical oddities in Sunshine (all hail the mysterious floating cubes), and SM64 still has the usual lack of 3-point texture filtering, but you put them side by side with the originals and they look almost if not completely identical. You put anything in Dreamcast Collection (2011) side-by-side with the originals and half of the ports in that are outright broken.
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Old 09-21-2020   #29
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I think it's worth it just for Galaxy. Going into the game blind is amazing, and if you've never played Galaxy, please play it on the switch.
Other than that, yeah, this is kinda scummy. If they addd Galaxy 2 as a free update, that would definitely justify the price. I think didn't release the pack with Galaxy 2 to see if the Galaxy playstyle on the switch gets good feedback so they can add it in later. If it doesn't, then no Galaxy 2 for us.
I agree with this, going off my own post, (which final total was below 30$ for every game) adding Galaxy 2 would be adding around 20$ to the game. This time, the total being 50$íish dollars to the game, still a bit overpriced but itís on the range of understandable.
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Old 09-21-2020   #30
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The BLJ glitch in SM64 has been patched, that means SM64 is the Shindou Edition of SM64 in SM3DAS.
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Old 09-21-2020   #31
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I mean, Super Mario 64 however is a patched version.
r.i.p gay bowser.
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Old 09-22-2020   #32
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It's definetly an item worth of purchase, however I have simply hold off from the purchase as I prefer cartridges over digital downloads and money is a bit tight at the moment where I can't afford it, so it's very sad to see Nintendo creating artificial shortage by limiting physical releases and also limiting digital purchases until next year March. I do not understand that business decision and thus decided simply not to support it.

It generally has become very hard to support Nintendo in this time with their questionable overpricing of Switch addons, Joycon drifting & offering no solution for it (outside the US), plus their overprotective nature of their own IP's.
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Old 09-22-2020   #33
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Originally Posted by CrayFray View Post
It generally has become very hard to support Nintendo in this time with their questionable overpricing of Switch addons, Joycon drifting & offering no solution for it (outside the US), plus their overprotective nature of their own IP's.
There's plenty of things that could be said one way or the other about Valve, but I always kind of appreciated their motto of: "If you want to stop piracy, offer a better service than the pirates."

The other issue with Nintendo's conservative IP protection is that I think it leads to them just not really giving much of a shit about fangame/modding/competitive communities. When they do give a shit, it's almost never the good kind.
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Old 09-22-2020   #34
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The other issue with Nintendo's conservatism IP protection is that I think it leads to them just not really giving much of a shit about fangame/modding/competitive communities. When they do give a shit, it's almost never the good kind.
That's my biggest issue with this. Nintendo has full right to take down any gaming content related to fangames, videos, or even competitions, as it can be seen as copyright infraction. We have clearly seen their stance on the plate - they do not appreciate fan content created from their games, and will gladly execute their copyright rights for any Nintendo IP. A real shame, since there are entire underground communities hiding underneath the curtain from Nintendo, the very company that they love and make content for.
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Old 09-23-2020   #35
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Nintendo are still making masterpieces unlike Sega.


If Sonic was still on the same quality as the genesis days I doubt that Robo Blast 2 would still be there.


Remember SoR remake?
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Old 09-23-2020   #36
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Nintendo are still making masterpieces unlike Sega.
You're right, but I'm surprised you didn't remember the downright *bad* spin-offs made during the WiiU era :v (somewhere, people are still mad about amiibo festival), oh yeah and skyward sword lmao.

As for the SM3DAS collection, I've only played SM64 on the Wii Virtual Console and the two Galaxy games, and I may get sunshine later since my Wii is compatible with Gamecube stuff.

While there was effort put into this, this was still a bit of a cash grab.


Granted, from the looks of things, this collection isn't bad. In fact, everything's emulated with stunning accuracy, and some games like Galaxy hold up shockingly well in HD.

64 looks about the same, and the upscaled textures look nice, except for the HUD which looks like a terrible xBRZ filter was placed over it.

I can't judge Sunshine since I haven't played it before, but from what I've heard, it's apparently a bit more buggy and jank than the original. Can't 100% confirm that tho. (Also the analog FLUDD controls are gone, while I can imagine that isn't their fault, they could've at *least* given the game support with GameCube controllers which they don't do for some reason @_@)

Galaxy has the biggest improvements. The bad "shake-to-spin" ordeal, while not a deal breaker, has been fixed with a button mapping, which is great. The UI was updated to match the switch controls, and the controls and text were updated to handle both handheld and TV modes which is also great. What's kinda weird tho is the touch controls for handheld mode, while I can probably assume that they thought this was the best way to do it, Galaxy is a game where the pointer has to be onscreen at all times since star bits are often hidden out of bounds where Mario can't reach em, but the pointer can, and abruptly stopping to touch a screen just rubs me the wrong way @_@

However, while this collection is good, there could've been a lot more, and the limited exclusivity deal is clearly there to make fast cash for Nintendo; You'd have to be blind to *not* be able to see that.


Sonic Jam wasn't just the original trilogy, it also came with Sonic World and a slew of bonus material, as other people said.

But there's also the Kirby 20th anniversary collection, which didn't just have 6 emulated games, but an entire interactive history of the series with videos and 3D box arts, a small bonus campaign featuring nothing but newly designed challenge stages in the style of Kirby's RtD, three whole episodes from Right Back at Ya, a soundtrack CD featuring some good music from the entire franchise, and a small booklet featuring a small history lesson complete with concept art and whatnot. It was a complete package filled with love and respect for the franchise.

This is the 35th anniversary of the plumber that saved the NA Video Game Industry, become popular in Europe, and caused Japan to recognize games as an art form; More should've been done, and it's overpriced compared to the alternative.

Some other things to note:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobaltBW View Post
There's plenty of things that could be said one way or the other about Valve, but I always kind of appreciated their motto of: "If you want to stop piracy, offer a better service than the pirates."

This is becoming steadily more true as big AAA companies like Nintendo or Sony can't even hold a candle to the amount of features that RetroArch has when it comes to emulation.

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Originally Posted by I'll Begin View Post
Say it with me kids: Emulation is not a bad word. Emulators also take effort to develop, even if you work for Nintendo and have all the system documentation. Emulators don't just magically come into existence you know, and they don't just download emulators from the Internet and sell them to you either.


I almost agree with everything you said except for one thing.
Nintendo has the source code and source architecture for every game and console that they have made or owned, most dev teams behind unofficial emulators do *not*, and have to figure out the architecture by themselves via reverse engineering. This disagree turns into a half-agree when Nintendo's European R&D still had to do some crazy things to get stuff working again and with total accuracy to the originals, while I can't disagree that the whole thing was effortless, that one fact still sticks out in my mind like a sore thumb.


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Originally Posted by TehPuertoRicanSpartan View Post
The BLJ glitch in SM64 has been patched, that means SM64 is the Shindou Edition of SM64 in SM3DAS.

No BLJ? No problem! SM64 can still be broken horribly as this GDQ TAS run demonstrates :v
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Old 09-27-2020   #37
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The game's SM64 version included is based on the Shindou edition.
That means no BLJ and no gay Bowser.
Atleast we have the title screen easter egg...
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Old 09-27-2020   #38
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You're right, but I'm surprised you didn't remember the downright *bad* spin-offs made during the WiiU era :v (somewhere, people are still mad about amiibo festival), oh yeah and skyward sword lmao.
The thing is that those are spin-offs while Sonic 2006 was a mainline game. Why are people still upset at Amiibo Festival when it's a Mario Party but with Animal Crossing characters? Just play New Leaf or New Horizons.



Heck, even if Zelda Skyward Sword has shoehorned its Wii Motion Plus gimmick it's still at its core a good Zelda game. I would even dare to say that even the CDI Zelda games are still better than Sonic 2006 or some other mistakes made by Sega.


Anyway I don't want to get upset, call me a Nintendo fanboy if you want but remember that if Sega didn't mess up their IPs we would probably not be here talking on the forum of a fangame that is better than almost everything Sega has done in decades.
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Old 10-02-2020   #39
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Whoa, lots of terrible opinions in this thread.


On topic: Nintendo sees itself as a toy company. Collectors not only enable such behaviors in toy companies, they downright encourage them. That's life.
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Old 10-02-2020   #40
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Why are people still upset at Amiibo Festival when it's a Mario Party but with Animal Crossing characters? Just play New Leaf or New Horizons.
The same thing applies with Sonic 2006, Chibi Robo Ziplash, Paper Mario Sticker Star, ect. Bad games in video game franchises are like thorns. It sticks out from the crowd, and people can't get enough of telling you not to touch them.
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