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Old 10-23-2014   #441
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Originally Posted by Hyperknux View Post
Same with Little Mac, despite his aerial combat being awful.
Have you ever played For Glory ever? Literally 60% of the people playing there use Little Mac. He isn't hard to use, let alone Ganon levels of hard to use.

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What I am saying is that the special moves are indeed different, but not enough to create a new character. They could have simply made more custom special moves in the custom character menu to hold these moves that these characters have.
Except you still wouldn't have a new character if they did that, you'd just have Mario having one more alternate palette and four more custom special moves.

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hahahaha, I don't think so
hahahaha, you think wrong then

"i don't think this character is good" doesn't equate to "this character isn't good". As it stands many characters are balanced to being fair all around bar a select few, which is good, but if there were ever an actual tier list expect Ganon to be right around Bowser, Mario, Shiek, and ZSS, maybe below by a bit. He's really good.

Last edited by ThunderNova; 10-23-2014 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 10-23-2014   #442
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While practicing with Gannon can make you far better at handling his character to be somewhat good, he still won't be a match for other characters, who are advanced in both ground and aerial attacks, such as Mario, Sonic, Toon Link, Kirby, etc.
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Old 10-23-2014   #443
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While practicing with Gannon can make you far better at handling his character to be somewhat good, he still won't be a match for other characters, who are advanced in both ground and aerial attacks, such as Mario, Sonic, Toon Link, Kirby, etc.
Have you taken the time to actually learn and play Ganon as a character and learn his strengths? No? Then don't bother commenting anything about him that isn't "i personally dislike Ganondorf".

"I personally dislike Ganondorf" is fine. "I dislike clones" is fine too. "Clones are a waste of space and should've been ditched for new characters entirely" and "Ganondorf is utter shit compared to other characters and I can't believe they didn't make him better" aren't. Don't do that.
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Old 10-23-2014   #444
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I have played as Gannon, more then I'd like to. In the end I still stick to my reasons of disliking the character for being too slow and having attacks with high risk. I'm simply saying they could have given him more unique moves that best fit his character rather then the ones they gave him. And I never said anything about removing clones, I simply said to make them alternate costumes instead of an entire new character slot. Anything Gannon can do, all the other characters can do better. I mean, they could have at least changed him to be a bit faster, like they did with Bowser, Donkey Kong, or King Dedede, but he remains his slow useless self. Even with practice, the fact of his slow speed and not the much more powerful attacks are nothing compared to the other characters. I can never see myself playing as him with these stats of his and having fun, unless it's to see how far I can get in certain game modes as the worst character in the game.
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Old 10-23-2014   #445
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The stream just finished.
I missed a good bit, but while we're talking about characters...
Mewtwo is to be DLC for both versions of the game. It's currently in development. He'll be released in Spring 2015.

Mewtwo Strikes Back
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Old 10-24-2014   #446
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I couldn't find any proof to back that up, but good pun there :p

I've just watched the 50 fact thingy...and holy poop will the two versions different, disregard all that I have said earlier. They just bombarded us with these new features and modes that, well, shit.

Btw, did anyone see that new Stage Builder? Holy crap that looks amazing.
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Old 10-24-2014   #447
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*Sees long arguments about how good Ganondorf is*

http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/

Hmm. Well if you look at the chart...

Just kidding. :P Tiers are still developing, and will continue to change for years. But I'm not seeing a wealth of evidence that Ganondorf is particularly good yet, despite some people's claims to the contrary (not talking about this board specifically). I don't play competitively anyways, so I'll continue to play as and enjoy Ganondorf. I'll also constantly misspell his name as Ganondwarf and have to correct myself immediately afterward.
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Old 10-24-2014   #448
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What really intrigues me is that the modes mentioned in the Wii U version have sound files in the 3ds version as unused/hidden content, such as yellow team, 8 - player smash, collect the coins, and special smash. Why would those sound files be on the 3ds version if it's a Wii U exclusive?

EDIT: oh shit, and well shit. Mewtwo has been confirmed:

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mewtwo_(SSB4)

however you would need to own both copies of the game, wii u and 3ds. Guess that settles it, I'm buying a wii u.
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Old 10-24-2014   #449
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Wow, that stage builder. Color me impressed; so glad they overhauled it.

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What I am saying is that the special moves are indeed different, but not enough to create a new character. They could have simply made more custom special moves in the custom character menu to hold these moves that these characters have.
The special moves aren't the only difference. Dr. Mario has different mobility and weight, and his regular moves have different properties (fair doesn't spike, dair is a drill downwards and has greater priority, fsmash is shorter and more powerful). Dr. Mario has less speed behind his attacks but more power in general; all of this makes him noticeably less combo-centric than regular Mario and causes him to revolve around having more power in his attacks and better on-stage approaches. I think that's a substantial difference in playstyle that the two characters promote, and simply changing the special moves around isn't enough to replicate this.

Consider this: The staff behind SSB4 could have just made more custom special moves to hold Falco's laser and reflector. Would this be enough to justify removing the character? If you cite gameplay reasons for your answer, logically those reasons would likely have to apply for Dr. Mario.

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hahahaha, you think wrong then

"i don't think this character is good" doesn't equate to "this character isn't good". As it stands many characters are balanced to being fair all around bar a select few, which is good, but if there were ever an actual tier list expect Ganon to be right around Bowser, Mario, Shiek, and ZSS, maybe below by a bit. He's really good.
Several things I want to point out.

"I think this character is good" doesn't equate to "this character is good".

Bowser is good but is countered by several characters who have zoning capabilities. He's not top tier. Mario is arguably midtier material due to his short range, Greninja does basically what Mario does but a little bit better. You basically said that Ganon is maybe below characters that are roughly midtier by a bit. I don't consider that "really good".

Lastly, 'dorf is viable, and the game is fairly balanced. But Ganondorf is only viable because the game is fairly balanced; no opinion I've read except yours thinks that Ganondorf is that high of a threat in this game. Every post relating to him that I've seen on SmashBoards indicates that people are glad he doesn't have to deal with the bullshit he had in Brawl, but that he didn't receive enough attention to put him on the level of competitiveness as his heavyweight alternatives, like Bowser or even King Dedede. There are tons of speculative tier lists posted by many users already, and none of the ones I've seen rank Ganondorf high; in fact, the sentiments I've read about the character indicate that most people who play Ganondorf do so simply because "he's Ganondorf".

I'm surprised you speak so harshly toward people who disagree with your assertion on Ganondorf's power and ranking on tier lists when, from what it seems, you haven't done much research yourself. Can you find any streams that suggest that the dark lord has some untapped potential? Any educated opinions or speculative tier lists that rank him highly? If not, then why do you think that comments like "Ganondorf is worse than the majority of the cast" are not acceptable, yet comments like "Ganondorf is one of the best characters in the game" are?
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Old 10-24-2014   #450
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Have you ever played For Glory ever? Literally 60% of the people playing there use Little Mac. He isn't hard to use, let alone Ganon levels of hard to use.



Except you still wouldn't have a new character if they did that, you'd just have Mario having one more alternate palette and four more custom special moves.
Well if that's the case, they must be insanely good. I currently remain undefeated on for glory at the moment an I have faced several Little Mac fighters, each I can easily use Greninja to best them at aerial combat. It's not difficult if you know what you're doing and the majority of Little Mac's aerial move set leave him vulnerable, let alone slow until he lands on the ground or catches the side. His ground combat is at he's at his best. I still need to play some more matches when workload isn't massive.

Whilst technically true, it can still make them stand out using some alternate/different moves.
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Old 10-24-2014   #451
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It's pretty easy to tell a novice Little Mac from an expert. Most players on FG try to do rushdown with him and fail miserably. He works best as a punisher.
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Old 10-24-2014   #452
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I versed and expert.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9jW...ature=youtu.be
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Old 10-24-2014   #453
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that was painful to watch

mostly because it reminds me of how much better you are with Mario than I am
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Old 10-24-2014   #454
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Anyone tell you and your friend that you use shield and dodge too much? :o. I mean we all have our strategies, so I'm not bashing or anything but still.
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Old 10-24-2014   #455
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Shield grabs and dodging are pretty much the way to win in this game. It's almost more defensive than Brawl was.
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Old 10-24-2014   #456
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It's worth mentioning Mario also has really effective grabs
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Old 10-24-2014   #457
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Mario's grab game is practically instantaneous man, it's so amazing because he also has plenty of good throws.
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Old 10-24-2014   #458
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So.... This happened to me yesterday... Neither one of us believed it...
I just... Ugh. Heh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZPMWS4R1_Q
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Old 10-25-2014   #459
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So who's everybody been using? I love Dedede myself. He's far better than in Brawl. He just has so many options and being a heavy weight is a plus in this game, and he's got great recovery. Sometimes I can survive past 200%.
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Old 10-25-2014   #460
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I've been really only alternating between Link (like in every Smash), Megaman, and Pac-Man. I usually only ever played as Link in the past, but Pac-Man is a really novel choice and Megaman is simply a fun character to anger people with.
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