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Old 03-13-2020   #1
TripleT
 
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Default How do you feel about the enemies in SRB2 game?

With the update to 2.2 many enemies been updated or new ones added. My question to you all are how do you feel about the enemies? Which ones do you like and which ones causes you frustration? To help things out I have listed all the enemies in the game listed on Zone Builder and a description to help identify the enemy if needed.

Greenflower Zone
Crawla (Blue)
Crawla (Red)
Stupid Dumb Unnamed RoboFish

Techno Hill Zone
Buzz (Gold)
Buzz (Red)
Deton - Red ball thing that moves at you really fast.
Turret - The machine laser.
Spring Shell (Green)

Deep Sea Zone
Skim
Jet Jaw
Crushstacean

Castle Eggman Zone
Robo-Hood
Lance-a-Bot
Suspicious Lance-a-Bot Statue
Egg Guard

Arid Canyon Zone
Bird Aircraft Strike Hazard
Green Snapper
Minus - The bot that dig in the ground.
Canarivore - That thing making smoke above.

Red Volcano Zone
Unidus - The black ball with the spikes around it.
Pterabyte Spawner
Pyre Fly
Dragonbomber - Catepillar thing drops explosives.

Egg Rock Zone
Pop-up Turret - The small robot that pops up and shoots one round.
Jetty-Syn Bomber - Green flying thing.
Spincushion - Funny thing making pinball sounds when it attacks.
Snailer

Frozen Hillside Zone
Penguinator
Pophat

Haunted Heights Zone
Spinbobert - Ghost.
Cacolantern - Cacodemon turned into flying pumpkin.
Hangster - Bat creature.

Aerial Garden Zone
Hve Elemental
Bumblebore

Unused Enemies
Spring Shell (Yellow)
Banpyura - Looks similar to the crab in Deep Sea Zone but blue.
Jetty-Syn Gunner - Looks similar to the Jetty-Syn Bomber but brown.
Crawla Commander
Buggle - Unknown.
Pointy - Unknown.

Last edited by TripleT; 03-13-2020 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 03-13-2020   #2
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Deep Sea Zone has a pretty solid enemy set. Crushtacean is very simple in design, but it does a really good job of introducing a kind of territory control that forces the player to respect it and carefully move around it, without necessarily breaking game flow. Knocking around the mines to trigger a chain reaction is also a really fun mechanic.

Castle Eggman might have arguably the best set of enemies though. By mixing and matching the set of enemies in different environments, you get really compelling combat scenarios in which the different strengths of each enemy synergize in different ways.

Red Volcano Zone also has some cool concepts, though I think there's an open question as to how well designed the Pterabyte is.

As for weakest design, I feel that Greenflower could use an update. There's effectively only two enemy types in the entire zone (crawla and jumping fish). The crawla's movement type is really uninspiring and doesn't allow for the type of creative usage that comes with the later enemies that have more deliberate territorial or pattern-based behavior. I also think it could be a bit of an issue that there's no projectile enemy introduced into the game until the GFZ3 boss and that we should introduce some stationary enemy with a slow-moving projectile to warm players up to dodging bullets.

Another enemy that needs reconsideration is the Crawla Commander. This thing is pretty nonviable in terms of placement; its behavior might work better if the enemy was split up into two single-hit enemies, one for each attack phase. I do like the idea of having an elite version of the most basic enemy, but it might be worth redoing the gameplay from the ground up.
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Old 03-13-2020   #3
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I think Greenflower needs a gentle enemy like the Crawla but airborne. Like a buzzbomber that can't shoot. Maybe the bees from Aerial Garden, actually, but way fewer of them and far less aggressive.

The crawla helps the player learn to, ah, "robo blast" the badniks by rolling or spindashing, but aside from the fish or the crawlas on different platforms, you're not learning to use your jump attack until the boss fight in GF3. I want to be able to "thok" through more enemies in GF1 and GF2, I think!

Then I guess there could be more Buzzes in Techno Hill to compensate for adding very gentle flying enemies to the first level?

..

Castle Eggman robots are perfect. Great designs. The Egg Knight, Lanceabot, has an amazing design. I love that they're two-hits.

...

The Pterabyte in Red Volcano is a horrible bastard, but I would be okay with this if they didn't drop the player in a bottomless pit. I kind of like the difficulty pitch in the way they're so aggressive... but there needs to be a bit more of a net for the player, otherwise the experience sours from fun into frustrating. I think the experience you want is that the first few attempts at jumping in the Pterabyte areas, you get caught, miss your jump and lose your rings, but you can land on a platform and then work your way back up again, get some rings, try again and this time jump around or jump through the devil birds.

...

I like that the freed animals from the badniks seem to hover around the player and follow for a moment. Like in GF1 with the Atomic Shield and blasting all of the Crawlas at once, it's fun to have that "end of Sonic 1" thing with all of the free animals hopping around the player.

I wonder if it would be possible for a mod to make the animals be collectible?? Because I feel like, in addition to rings / emerald tokens / emblems, the game wouldn't hurt to have 1 or 2 additional mid-level collectible things just for fun.

Collectible Animals would encourage a player to do a run-through where you search out and destroy each badnik.

Of course, then the question is, to what end? You collect the animals to do what? I'm not saying there needs to be a Chao Garden. Okay well yes I am saying that. No, not really. Honestly the reward is just the rescue itself, it doesn't need to have an ambitious payoff. For example in Sonic Dash, you collect the animals and once you have a certain number, then you can fix up the Eggman pollution to install a flickie bird bath or whatever on the home screen.

Could just be as simple as killing all enemies / freeing all animals earns the player a "Freedom Fighter" medal.

Last edited by Moose the Fat Cat; 03-13-2020 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 03-13-2020   #4
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In one of the more recent 3D Sonic games (Lost World, maybe?) the Motobugs kind of amble about aimlessly until they see Sonic, at which point they slowly chase him swinging their arms. It's a very simple change to the original Motobug's behavior that updates them to a more modern standard of a 3D game fodder enemy without making them too complex. I think that would work well for the Crawlas--have them act the way they do now, just slowly moving towards the player's coordinates, and then when they're close enough have them start to pursue a little more aggressively.

Additionally, maybe the Red Crawlas could have a lazy little projectile like the Crabmeat's in Sonic 1. Not a real threat if you're paying attention. Maybe instead of trying to collide with the player to damage them, when the Red Crawla is close enough, it stops moving and pops out a little projectile in an arc like the Crabmeat does, flashing and making a small sound to indicate it's about to fire.

Aside from the Crawlas, the only enemies I would really change are the pterabytes. I think they should be in groups no larger than two at a time, and either make them easier to button-mash out of, or have them drop the player in jump state so they can thok or glide or whatever to safety.

Also, I think the drop off distance for sound volume is a little too low. I often get surprised by knights charging in from off-screen because I can't hear them, even though they're still in the same room.

On that note, I think the piranhas in Deep Sea Zone need some kind of sound effect when they're in chase mode. Getting snuck up on in Deep Sea Zone is no fun. SRB2 is a 3D game so the player doesn't have the benefit of being able to see behind them like in the 2D Sonic games, so sound cues (and maybe visual ones, for deaf players) are very important to making the player feel like they're not getting cheaped out by enemies.

Aside from that I have no real suggestions. The enemies are all great and unique. I especially love the little crab guy in Deep Sea Zone, he's really cute and very Classic Sonic.
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Old 03-13-2020   #5
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What's with that list of unused enemies? The Buggles are in Azure Temple, the Crawla Commander appears in Techno Legacy and the Jetty-Syn Gunner shows up in Egg Rock.

Mostly I have the same things to say softchassis did (the Lance-a-bot and the Robo-Hood need to be able to be heard from further away, the Jet Jaws need a tell for their chase mode). Beyond that... is it just me, or is the BASH even more ineffective than it was before? I see them taking off and charging at me... then I never see them again, unless I purposefully hang around and let them orbit me. I guess they're not killing themselves now but they're basically nothing compared to the zone's other enemies.
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Old 03-14-2020   #6
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This has been said, but I agree that Pterabytes could use some tweaks and the Jet Jaw needs some kind of sound for when it launches at you. Jet Jaws are also really small so it's easy to not see them because they were blocked by your sprite or something and get completely blind sided by them at points. Additionally, as much as I love Crushtaceans, they are a bit overly threatening. Like it feels like they are way too aggressive and accurate to the point that it is never an option to interact with them at all, which I guess is the point but it's still really weird that they feel like one of the nastiest enemies and they're in the third zone. Maybe they are intended to just be completely avoided but I think it would be nicer if they were a bit more predictable so you could eventually memorize them. I mean it's fun to be able to fight the enemies sometimes, there are so many enemies in the game already that are designed to just be avoided. As they are now, it almost feels like they change their attack speeds and react way too fast to be predictable, you almost always take a hit when fighting them because of this. Maybe the hitbox is really big or something, I don't know, I seem to get hit even when I jump over their claw sometimes but it might be just me.



Also the Green Snapper guys seem a bit too risky to attack at all, their weak point is in such a tricky place and they move so fast that you're almost always better off not interacting. It's like a 50% chance you'll just get hit with how hard it is to perfectly hit them. I still love all these enemies though, just think that some are a bit too threatening for their own good. Or I might just be bad.
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Old 03-14-2020   #7
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Additionally, as much as I love Crushtaceans, they are a bit overly threatening. Like it feels like they are way too aggressive and accurate to the point that it is never an option to interact with them at all, which I guess is the point but it's still really weird that they feel like one of the nastiest enemies and they're in the third zone. Maybe they are intended to just be completely avoided but I think it would be nicer if they were a bit more predictable so you could eventually memorize them. I mean it's fun to be able to fight the enemies sometimes, there are so many enemies in the game already that are designed to just be avoided. As they are now, it almost feels like they change their attack speeds and react way too fast to be predictable, you almost always take a hit when fighting them because of this. Maybe the hitbox is really big or something, I don't know, I seem to get hit even when I jump over their claw sometimes but it might be just me.

Also the Green Snapper guys seem a bit too risky to attack at all, their weak point is in such a tricky place and they move so fast that you're almost always better off not interacting. It's like a 50% chance you'll just get hit with how hard it is to perfectly hit them. I still love all these enemies though, just think that some are a bit too threatening for their own good. Or I might just be bad.
I agree on both. It seems to always involve either getting hit, or expecting to dodge twice and then hopefully finding the right angle.

I love Deep Sea Zone but I wonder if it would make more sense for it to be level 4 instead of 3.

Greenflower > Techno Hill > Castle Eggman > Deep Sea > Arid Canyon > Red Volcano

Feels a bit more logical to storm Eggman's castle after his factory. It's raining at Castle Eggman, and at the end, you'd be dropped into the moat. Once out of the underground labyrinth and the caves, you make your way up to find yourself in a desert canyon. From there you follow the train tracks to Red Volcano and Eggman's rocketship into space.
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Old 03-14-2020   #8
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Crushtacean is actually pretty simple to handle, but it takes most people a bit to figure out. The solution is to jump on it when it punches at you. The fist cannot go upwards, so you will jump over its fist and land on it safely. Even Knuckles can do this safely, although he has less grace room to do so.
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Old 03-14-2020   #9
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Crushstaceans are one of the coolest enemies, because they show that some elements from the 2D games (in this case, the Metropolis Zone crab enemies with the obnoxiously small hitboxes) actually work better in 3D. At first glance they're just as annoying as the ones from Sonic 2, but if you know how to handle them they add a cool amount of depth to the zone and how to beat it without getting hit. Also, having crab enemies in a water zone makes so much more sense than having them in a factory zone.

The enemies in this game are great overall, but I want to say the red Crawla is barely any more threatening than the blue one which I think could really use a change.
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Old 03-15-2020   #10
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Originally Posted by cookiefonster View Post
Crushstaceans are one of the coolest enemies, because they show that some elements from the 2D games (in this case, the Metropolis Zone crab enemies with the obnoxiously small hitboxes) actually work better in 3D. At first glance they're just as annoying as the ones from Sonic 2, but if you know how to handle them they add a cool amount of depth to the zone and how to beat it without getting hit. Also, having crab enemies in a water zone makes so much more sense than having them in a factory zone.
What makes Crushtaceans work so well here is the fact that the player has a lot of time to see the enemy before it can lunge at them. The swiftness of the attack means that players must still approach it with caution, but the design of the enemy and the design of the levels make it so that players can expertly avoid the enemies without breaking flow

Honestly, it's probably the best designed enemy in the entire game.
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Old 03-15-2020   #11
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Spoiler: gfz
Gonna second the "make crawlas charge at you when you get close" idea. There's so many of them littered around gfz, and I'd prefer if they were more of a threat but also less frequent. Perhaps they should be a bit larger, since at this point players are still getting used to the idea of a sonic game with no homing attack.

There doesn't really need to be 2 color variations of the crawlas. A small speed increase doesn't really change anything about how you deal with them. A brand new badnik makes sense as a replacement.

SDURFs are fine, but I'd like to see them jump back and forth in an arc, and jump across bridges. The SDURF that snipes people near the end of GFZ2 is almost always the first meaningful encounter players have with the enemy, since they have no presence earlier. It's a great moment though, and usually gets a laugh out of people while forcing them to learn some simple timing.


Spoiler: thz
I actually don't like the buzz at all. It pales in comparison to modern SRB2 enemy design and simply isn't cool or interesting. It's bland and only hits players by blindsiding them from behind.

Detons are just not a great design, even with the newly added sound effect that plays when once notices you. I'd like it if the deton chased you, got real close, and then charged up an explosion while slowing down a bit.

Spring Shells are great. Maybe they should move faster when the player is far away, allowing for the player to reposition them easily.


Spoiler: dsz
I think the crushtaceans are awesome, but probably a little too hard for new players to deal with. A very slight reduction in the speed of their punch makes sense to me. As it is now, most new players end up avoiding them entirely and don't learn how to kill them since their vulnerable period is pretty short.

Skims and jet jaws are just bland and annoying.


Spoiler: cez
Could use some new sprites for the shield bot and robo-hood. Also, I'd prefer if shieldbots would just die if hit from behind at all.


Spoiler: acz
Could use new sprites for the BASH.

Green snappers are definitely too difficult to kill. They should probably slow down to a stop if you aren't on the same horizontal plane as them (like those enemies in megaman)


Spoiler: rvz
The pterabyte screech is too loud, and their grab is way too hard to avoid.


Spoiler: erz
Not really a fan of any of the badniks here. Comparing ERZ to, say, CEZ, the enemies are less menacing and don't create unique obstacles. ERZ ones just feel underwhelming and annoying.
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Old 03-15-2020   #12
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I doubted myself so I just went and played through Deep Sea like 10 times and messed with the Crushtaceans for ages and still stand by what I said. They feel way too fast and aggressive for their placements. I don't know how to explain it, like you see it there, run up and bam it just fires even when you don't expect it to. It's weirdly aggressive and inconsistent sometimes, I swear it's not just me. Even the range of it's attack feels like too much sometimes. And sometimes you jump and the claw still clips you, this happened consistently when I thought I had it down after messing with them for ages. The hitbox is huge. I like the enemy, but it feels too annoying for where it's placed sometimes. It's not difficult per say, just janky and annoying. Still a good enemy, but I seriously think some tweaks could be made. Also, for reference, I'm not inexperienced with the game and have played all the levels with Sonic like hundreds of times. This isn't me complaining about difficulty I'm just giving feedback on the enemies, Crushtacean just feels jank to me that's all.

Last edited by Wosh; 04-20-2020 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 03-15-2020   #13
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Crushtaceans need to have a longer vulnerability period. Just leave the claw out for longer, and retract it really slowly. I think that would help a lot.
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Old 03-17-2020   #14
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Spoiler: GFZ
Crawla: These come in blue and red variations, with the only difference being that red crawla is faster. Honestly the blue crawla is fine, but I feel like red crawla's should shoot a small, slow moving projectile at the player or in the player's general direction.

SDURF: These are also fine, but I feel like there should be a second variant of them that jumps back and forth in an arch shape so they can be placed next to bridges and attack the player while they are on dry ground. This would make GFZ feel a little more lively than it already does, and would be a neat thing for custom stages too.


Spoiler: THZ
Buzz: I feel like a little bit of a tricky AI would be nice. Have them slowly (or quickly in the case of the red ones) move toward the player as usual, but if the player attempts to attack them they try to move out of the way or something. Alternatively, they could act similar to Buzz Bombers in that they could maintain their vertical height, follow the player, and attempt to hit them with projectiles that move at a fixed angle.

Spring Shell: Only real change to these I would like to see is to set them apart from Crawla's while spinning them from the ground or coming at them from the side in general. Basically, my idea is to make it so that regardless of how they are destroyed, the act of destroying them through direct contact propels the player upward (with preserved horizontal momentum) as though the spring activated anyway. This would allow them to be placed in such a way the practicality of destroying them appears to be the same as a Crawla at first, but in reality is slightly different and results in different movement for the player. This could also make for some interesting shortcuts for characters that can spin.

Turret: These also appear later in the game, but I will just go over it here. The idea of these things is rather sound, the only thing I would do is place more of them. They are so few and far between they they can be ignored almost entirely.

Detons: I don't remember if these still appear in THZ or if they are exclusive to TLZ, but I will go over them here either way. I feel like they should have a recognizable, slow beeping sound that can be heard from a small distance away so as to warn the player before they are spotted. Perhaps also have them speed up a little as they grow closer and start out moving somewhat slow, so as to give the player a little bit more leeway in escaping.


Spoiler: DSZ
Crushstacean: Honestly I don't think these need much in the way of tweaks. They are a minor annoyance but not the horrible thing everyone seems to make them out to be.

Mines: I don't see a problem with these either.

Skim: These are mostly fine as is, but maybe they would be better if they moved a little more slowly.

Jet Jaw: These are also fine. I would make them more relentless in their hunt though, have them only give up their chase after they spot the player if the player physically leaves the water. This forces the player to either destroy them, or make a swift retreat.


Spoiler: CEZ
Lance-a-Bot: I like their behavior a lot more than in previous versions of SRB2. The only thing I would change about them is I would make the time it takes for them to charge their dash attack a little bit longer so that the near-invulnerability they have during the dash feels more justified.

Robo Hoods: These guys are pretty much fine, a little disappointed they aren't made use of during the boss act though. Would be a great way for the boss to defend itself during the pinch phase.

Egg Guard: I would just make the shields slightly less durable. It feels intuitive that the shield should break if you are moving fast enough when you hit it. Sonic's thok should be enough to do the trick. Maybe also make it so it only takes one hit from behind to destroy them entirely, since that's their vulnerable spot.


Spoiler: ACZ
BASH: These are actually rather few and far between now. Either way, I'm not entirely sure what I think about them since I rarely encounter them.

Green Snapper: Their behavior is fine but I feel like they should be easier to destroy from above. Feels like most of the time I try to jump on them as a character with spin jump, they hurt me instead.

Minus: I feel like the fact that they carry things they burrow under with them could be incorporated into their attack strategy. Have them grab the player if they burrow underneath them, and the player has to mash jump to escape before it jumps out of the ground to deal damage. Doing so successfully puts the player into the jump state, destroying the badnik when it jumps.

Canarivore: I'm kinda indifferent to these. Only thing I would probably change is make it easier to destroy them.


Spoiler: RVZ
Pterabyte: It should be made possible, or at least more apparent that you can escape by mashing directional inputs. As it is, the player will typically feel helpless as soon as they are grabbed, and the resulting damage from getting dropped in the lava and losing their rings ends up feeling cheap. Also maybe reduce the number of them in a flock from 3 or 4 to 2 and place them on opposite ends of the circle they are flying in.

Unidus: They feel kinda pointless right now, maybe have them throw the spike balls faster or do something else with them entirely.

Pyre Fly: Those things that light themselves on fire and fly at you slowly. These are fine, can't think of anything I would want changed.

Dragonbomber: Those big firefly things that drop bombs on you. The only thing I might want to do with these instead is have them fly in a fixed path and drop bombs along that path. Their current behavior is generally pretty fine though.


Spoiler: ERZ
Snailer: Those little dudes that cling to walls and shoot you with lasers. I would increase the frequency they shoot you at, or make it so they have a little bit more freedom to move along walls.

Pop-up Turret: Those turrets that pop out of the ground and shoot a laser at you. I would probably make these into alternate variants of the snails and give them some mobility. Maybe even merge them into the same badnik and allow it to move between the walls and floor.

Spincushion: I would probably change it so they turn red when they spot the player, but the player can jump over them and they turn blue again when they lose sight of the player. This would add an element of strategy to defeating them, rather than just trying to spin into them as fast as possible before they turn red.

Jettysyn Gunner and Jettysyn Bomber: They are pretty much fine as is but they should probably have updated AI. For the gunners, they could try to maintain a little bit of a distance from you so they can snipe you from afar. If the player is quick enough, they can jump into them before they have a chance to get away. For the bombers, they try to find a position vertically above the player only a short distance above them so they can drop bombs and occasionally swoop down briefly. If the player jumps while they are swooping down, they have a chance to destroy them.


Spoiler: FHZ
Penguinator: A fun callback to a classic badnik. Some slight visual bugs that could use fixing, but otherwise fine.

Pophat: Reminds me of a badnik from Sonic Advance 3's Twinkle Snow. Is that an intentional reference? Either way, these are also fine, though I would probably up the speed on their projectiles a little bit as they are a huge non-threat right now.


Spoiler: HHZ
Spinbobert: I actually really like the creativity and movement to these ones. No complaints here.

Cacolantern: This is a really fun reference as well. No complaints here either.

Hangster: Reminds me of Marble Zone, except this zone isn't anywhere near as slow.


Spoiler: AGZ
Hive: I love the idea of a badnik that acts as a spawn point for another type of badnik until you destroy it.

Bumblebore: I would probably hate these with the burning passion of 100 million suns a little bit less if they didn't try to slam into the player directly horizontally, and were limited to falling on the player from above. It's absolutely horrible to be trying to do timing based platforming above a bottomless pit, only to be denied by one of these things slamming into you and costing you a life.


Spoiler: Brand new badnik ideas that I had
Butterfly themed badnik: This would be a basic flying badnik that appears in GFZ. They fly close to the ground, generally nearby flowers. They don't actively attack the player, and serve generally as practice for dealing with enemies that aren't grounded.

Rabbit themed badnik: A timid badnik that flees from the player when spotted that appears in GFZ. If the player is hit by another badnik and drops their rings, this badnik will attempt to grab some of the dropped rings quickly and run off before the player recovers. Defeating this badnik drops whatever rings it has stolen for the player to re-collect.

UFO badnik: A small UFO-like badnik that flies around outside in THZ. It can't hurt the player directly, but will fly around the player annoyingly, and sometimes beam them up and drop them into the bouncy goop. If they player mashes jump while beamed up, they can attack the UFO from the inside and eventually destroy it. Destroying this badnik drops some rings for the player to collect.

T-Rex badnik: A huge badnik sleeping in a cave somewhere in RVZ. You can cross the cave to act as a shortcut, but if you make any loud noises (such as stepping on a collapsing platform) the giant badnik will wake up and chase after the player, destroying everything in it's path. It cannot be damaged, and the only hope for survival is to escape the cave.

Last edited by time gear; 03-22-2020 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 03-18-2020   #15
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Spoiler: Greenflower Zone
Crawla: Honestly, I'm fine with GFZ having basic enemies which do nothing but move slowly at you. In GFZ, the player is still getting used to the controls, so having an enemy which requires the player to be on their toes before they even know what buttons to press would be frustrating.

SDURF: These are also good - they move in a particular way and don't specifically go after the player if they're moving slowly or trying to figure out how to move - the player must specifically go into the SDURF's territory to get hit by it. I do like Time Gear's idea of having some move in a predictable arc, though.


Spoiler: Techno Hill Zone
Buzz: The Crawla of the sky. I used to hate these things (probably because of the Mystic Realm), but their new look, bigger hitbox(?) and being more noticable in general helps make them less frustrating to get caught off-guard by. Honestly, I think they're in a good spot now. (I also vaguely remember there being two Buzz varieties - has the other one been removed? If so, good riddance.)

Spring Shell: These are just Crawlas with a spring on them. They're fine, though I wish it was a bit easier to hit the spring instead of destroying the enemy. (Maybe make it so that any aerial attack springs the player, instead of having to be precise with it? Spindashes of course would destroy the enemy without hitting the spring, as every character has a way of attacking from the ground.)

Turret: Isn't there like, one turret in the entirity of THZ, and it's entirely a reference to 1.09.4? I mean, it's fine. I like the enemy. I don't think any changes are necessary here.

Detons: The classic jumpscare enemy. Kinda wish they had a small sound to make the player aware of them when they're further away (as well as making them slower if the player is very distant from them). Never much liked these, and I think the devteam doesn't either considering they still have their old sprites.


Spoiler: Deep Sea Zone
Crushstacean: These are frustrating if only because their attack is slightly too fast. It's pretty difficult to get a gauge for when they attack, so my usual method of dealing with them is to just leave them alone. It doesn't seem like going around and spindashing into them is a viable option either, because the hand retracts too quickly. Definitely could do with some tweaks for such an early enemy.

Mines: These exist. They're a nice stage mechanic. I like them. They're basically perfect in their current form.

Skim: These are fine, though a little boring. New sprites would probably go a long way, though I also feel like their attack pattern is just... not that interesting? I wonder what would happen if the bomb they dropped was replaced with something a lot faster (though also with more warning, like a tracking beam and a sound)

Jet Jaw: Ugh, these things. Thankfully not as bad in the new DSZ, but it's still pretty annoying when you're not in your spinning state and just go vaguely near one. Kinda just forced to take a hit without having any way of dealing with it. I kinda wish they charged up a fast dash instead, because right now they just feel like a swarm of underwater bees.


Spoiler: Castle Eggman Zone
Best level in terms of enemy design IMO! Though to be fair, CEZ as a whole is just the best level now.

Lance-a-Bot: Honestly? One of my favourite new enemies, despite them being kinda annoying. Why? Because it's very obvious when you should attack them and when you need to back off. They're completely invincible when charging, so back off and then strike. Definite improvement over the old CastleBot FaceStabbers!

Robo Hoods: Another heavy improvement. The arrows arcing from above feels a lot better than the old stealth-arrows which they used to fire (you don't get clocked by one when you're moving towards the enemy anymore), and their new jump-back dodge is just funny. No complaints here!

Egg Guard: They seem to be a bit buggy now. The shield can be dropped by just... walking into it? Sometimes attacks from the front just break through the shield when they never would before, and Knuckles appears to completely ignore them. (Not sure if intentional or buggy?) Also if you walk into the bot from behind, you don't take damage despite touching the bot part and not the shield. However, I DO like that these enemies follow set paths now instead of just constantly gunning for you and keeping their shield in front.


Spoiler: Arid Canyon Zone
BASH: ... These exist? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Green Snapper: I like how they act, I just don't like their hitbox. The part where you can damage them is FAR smaller than the part where they can damage you, and often I've jumped on them only to take an unfair hit. The old turtle bots weren't like this (they were pretty consistent to jump on), but now that their legs are seperate from their body, I feel like it's really inconsistent.

Minus: I now love everything about this enemy except their name. Happy that the old spin tactic doesn't work anymore (I mean, they hit you drill-first). I love that they can carry things around (like TNT and Snappers), as it's quite surprising to see a TNT barrel just make a beeline for you! And of course, their burrow animation is a little randomised now meaning you don't know *exactly* where they are, but can still easily gauge it from context.

Canarivore: These... exist. Honestly, I feel they're more for atmosphere than to actually be an annoying enemy. If you want the player to slow down a bit and pay attention, add one of these guys. I feel like they're more a stage element (similar to a spring) than an enemy. I haven't actually tried attacking one, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were completely invincible.


Spoiler: Red Volcano Zone
Hoo boy, worst zone in the game when it comes to enemy design. Here we go...

Pterabyte: Honestly, these are just badly designed. If you're not going at top speed when you move past them, you get grabbed and thrown into lava, where your rings immediately disappear. Mashing KIND OF helps, but normally even if you mash... you're over lava anyway, so there's no real difference. I don't mind the idea of an enemy which grabs the player, but here it's done in quite possibly the worst way imaginable.

Unidus: Eh, they were an enemy I hated before and I still kinda do. The spike balls move too slowly and just end up being a "hey, you can't go here for 10 seconds" kinda thing. They're annoying and slow down the gameplay too much if you actually want to defeat them.

Pyre Fly: They're fine. They're like those spiky-bubble enemies from Sonic 3, except with fire. Their hitbox when firey is hard to gauge though, but that's my only problem with the enemy.

Dragonbomber: Hate these things more than the Pterabyte. The bombs they drop have too much radius and FAR too much knockback, you can't actually reach them to defeat them with most characters and they regenerate their bombs just slightly too fast, so you don't really get any time to move past them. Worst enemy in the game by FAR.


Spoiler: Egg Rock Zone
Snailer: These.. exist. A stationary turret that can move up and down. They're not particularly threatening. I didn't even know they were supposed to be a snail at first, as they're always facing you.

Pop-up Turret: Like the Snailer, but less interesting. Maybe give these ones rapid-fire of slightly faster projectiles (with a recharge time after a burst), just to make them at least a little threatening? Could make it similar to one of Metal Sonic's rapid-fire attacks, actually - have them visually charge three/five shots before firing them at the player.

Spincushion: Oh, did they get renamed? Either way, these are still the same enemy - kill them quickly before they turn invincible. Barely annoying if you're experienced, frustrating if you don't know what to expect.

Jetty-Syn Bomber: Never liked Jettys, though Bombers aren't nearly as bad as Gunners. I feel like the fact that they've been almost completely removed means that the devs feel almost the same way. I do like their new design, though. Having to jump twice to defeat them (once to affect their momentum, a second to actually hit them) is interesting, though.


Spoiler: Bonus/Challenge Levels
Penguinator: I like 'em! Basically like a Crawla but with a charge. The only gripe I have with them is that sometimes they turn completely invisible when near snow (Software Mode bug?), so it's kinda surprising to get hit by an invisible enemy.

Pophat: I don't remember these being particularly memorable. They fit the theme for sure and are easy enough to defeat. I think I only ever got hit by them once though, and it's when I was very much not paying attention. To me, they just seem like a Robo-Hood without the jump, which is fine.

Spinbobert: Honestly, the hitbox of the little spinning ghosts is a little hard to predict, so I usually just avoid them if possible.

Cacolantern: I really like these! They fit the spooky theme (being a pumpkin) and they're easy enough to hit (though sometimes they just ascend into space???). I love that they're themed after a Doom monster, too - at long last, referencing the game's roots!

Hangster: I also really like these! They're simple enough, just a bat which swoops down and tries to hit you. Sometimes they fly back up before they actually reach you though - I've had times where I've just been able to stand in place and watch the bats attempt to attack me, which I don't think should be possible.

Bumblebore and Hive: Vast improvement over the Jetty-Syn Gunner spam, IMO. They still have the same movement patterns as Jettys, but having them do a downwards slam once is nice, especially as there's more warning than the Jetty-Syn Bomber's... bombs. I kinda wished that taking out a hive would eliminate the bees that it spawned, but it IS part of a Challenge Level.

Bubble Buzz: Eh, they're part of the challenge in Azure Temple. Frustrating... but that's kind of the point. Kinda wish a few of them were placed in Deep Sea Zone though, just to give players a hostile form of air - as they actually aren't that bad when not placed over a death pit.
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Old 03-18-2020   #16
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you could do spawn enemies or something and then you could see the blue one like I did with devmode 1
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Old 03-19-2020   #17
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Spoiler: Greenflower Zone
Crawla Duo: I mean for a First Zone enemy, these are pretty much perfect to the task. Heck, they still get hits on me sometimes if I'm careless with showing off or jank up a trick bounce. Do kinda wish the red variant was more than "move slightly faster", though - maybe the lazy projectile arc could be something, since I've seen it in multiple other posts above?

SDURF: Same as above thoughts, really. There's really only one that's even remotely in the way, but they make for nice setdressing and help the place feel alive. Having them jump bridges could make for an aerial target that isn't going to dunk hedgehog if you go after them, and double as a nice callback to the Choppers in GHZ.


Spoiler: Techno Hill Zone
Buzz Duo: Air Crawlas, pretty much. They're more threatening since they fly, but what else is there really to say?

Spring Shell: Y'know, I miss the Yellow variants of these guys - the ones that'd always drop their springs if hit, and would launch you into the sky if you rolled into them. Maybe introduce them for Act 1 somewhere near a prop with a ring box to practice hitting them from a good angle, then Act 2 can use them as an avoidance-type enemy or have you risk letting a Deton catch up or getting nailed by a rooftop elec plate?

Turret: It... it's a gun. It's used okay here, and it's absolutely terrifying in the current ERZ - which is amazing - so... yeah. Nice. Maybe have the one here timed specifically so it's charging up to shoot the glass as you ride the elevator down, since I've come across it in all my runs and it doesn't even shoot, period. At least this way, a player actually sees what the sound going on means.

Detons: Used only in Act 2's high path and nowhere else. It works well for what it is, and it's a nice thing to have for zone building - really like that it can break the spring shells, neat detail.


Spoiler: Deep Sea Zone
Crushstacean: Less of a badnik and more an obstacle, but I'd say it works pretty well. Most players won't bother to attack them after the first few attempts, but they can be reliably counter-hit. My only complaint is how quickly they can swing that arm around, and maybe the claw could stand to shake for like half a second so a completely new player isn't blindsided by Crab Punch.

Mines: Yes, the explosive is made of explosives. Chain-detting these is just fun, these are pretty perfect.

Skim: Honestly a pretty rare enemy, and not that effective anyways unless you're already struggling. Maybe put them in shallow pools to rush a player like super-crawlas? If you want to go on the wild side, maybe they can use themselves as aquatic timer detons with a new attack, but that might step on the Jet Jaws' role.

Jet Jaw: Speaking of, these guys are really small and really quiet. Reminds me of the pre-redesigned Buzzes, but at least those guys had a sound cue. Just a quick "jaw snapping" before they start rushing you could be enough, because the small size admittedly does fit them well.


Spoiler: Castle Eggman Zone
Lance-a-Bot: The stronk boys, I rather like them! Sometimes you'll be blindsided by them being too far away for their sound cue to reach you, but overall they're a great compliment to Egg Guards.

Robo Hoods: Their shot arc is leagues better than the straight shot, and they're placed decently well in the odd case you come across one. They could stand to be a touch braver, though, because their dodge just gets silly if they're locked in a small space with you and otherwise causes them to commit self die. Maybe they dodge if you're in ball form as they do now, but try for a crossbow stab if you're not?

Egg Guard: The fact that they can follow set paths now is amazingly great, and they're used near perfectly in-game. The way their shield works is still a crapshoot, however, and they really should die if you hit their back. Maybe have the break be triggered by speed, so if you ram them you'll still be bounced back but can follow up with a quick thok or glide?


Spoiler: Arid Canyon Zone
BASH: Used way too infrequently, truth be told. I'm pretty sure they only appear in places where you're over a pit - bad for introductions - and their tracking is rather bad as well. At least use them in more areas to justify it, maybe liven up some of the area a touch more.

Green Snapper: A bit overused and pretty unreliable to hit because of how their legs move. Might be a smidge more bearable / likely to be interacted with if their shell was just a small touch taller so the legs wouldn't occasionally jank what'd have otherwise hit it.

Minus: Man, the first time I saw one of these guys carrying a TNT barrel was the most horrifying yet hilarious moment in-game. They're pretty easy to cheese by just standing in place and jumping, but I like them and their new sprites.

Canarivore: They're yellow because they're made out of those "You Tried" gold stars Eggman had laying around in some forgotten shelf. Not effective nor threatening in any way whatsoever - at least make the fog drain rings, c'mon, even Lava Reef did that much for their similar enemy. Heck, maybe they could be obstacles for the minecart areas, I'unno.


Spoiler: Red Volcano Zone
Pterabyte: Completely 100% obnoxious to do anything with at all. You just can't win - either you fudge a jump to avoid being grabbed, or you do get grabbed and are dunked in lava even with a successful break. Wild suggestion here, maybe replace the grab with a bumper talon - they still do area denial, but the player isn't helpless to do anything about it should they get denied by one.

Unidus: About as exciting as an Orbinaut can be, really. Maybe if a player gets too close they can charge up and rush towards you real quick like the old Spikey enemy that's now unused? Could make a neat strategy where a player can either rush past and hope for bad tracking, or make them shoot and create an opening to smash them.

Pyre Fly: Asides from their hitbox being kind of unclear while lit, I rather like these fellas. They're used well as aerial obstacles and look adorable to boot.

Dragonbomber: Annoying, but far more manageable than the Pterabytes. My only request is that you can break their body parts if hit from above or with a hammer / cork.


Spoiler: Egg Rock Zone
Snailer: Mobile wall turret that does its best. Egg Rock Zone focuses way more on platforming than enemies, so these guys just do what they can, and it's pretty okay sometimes. Zone's due for an update, methinks, and maybe that'll give them more to work as with complimentary layouts.

Pop-up Turret: Turret, but fun sized. They're really only meaningful in the Crap Path of Act 2, but when they are it's pretty neat to see and dodge. Mostly just suffers the same issue of non-complimentary layouts that Snailer suffers.

Spincushion: A nice enemy, I kinda like it. Maybe have it trigger a smidge faster and move a touch slower to compensate? Otherwise, again, suffers the Egg Rock Zone's prioritization of platforming over enemies.

Jetty-Syn Duo: I like them, but also can't ignore their obnoxious flight AI. Gunner's also way underused, relegated to harmless blips in Act 2 and the Disco Room. Maybe a zone redesign will let these two feel less obnoxious with usage.


Spoiler: Bonus/Challenge Levels
Penguinator: I hate penguins normally, but these guys are okay. Nice Ice Cap reference, and they work really well - only complaint is them being invisible if diving while in snow, maybe have them glide above it to assert dominance.

Pophat: Simple enemy that looks good and serves its purpose well. I like them, but they could be used in more interesting ways than being plopped in the middle of a rather large surface. Heck, replace the black bomb with an explosive snowball, and enough of them near a cliff can simulate a psuedo-avalanche.

Spinbobert: Kind of unreliable to hit, so avoidance is preferable to encountering them, but I like their status as the only in-game foe to not drop a small animal.

Cacolantern: Now who could say no to that smile? Pretty good enemy all around, though sometimes they'll bug out and ascend to the heavens. They must go, their people need them.

Hangster: A cool enemy, but not very effective at all. They're probably not meant to be too threatening, though, so what do I know - just, as mentioned above, maybe don't let them outright flub an attempt without any player input?

Bumblebore and Hive: Annoying, but that's probably just Aerial Garden being itself. Outside the level they appear in, though, I love these two enemies.

Bubble Buzz: It's a bubble! It's a buzz! It's bubble buzz! Cute 'lil bean that just wants you to have some air, just not very good with where it supplies that commodity. I like 'em.
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Old 03-22-2020   #18
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What is with everyone putting their thoughts into spoilers? Like if people who have not done this game really do not want to be spoiled they would not check this thread. Unless the spoilers are being used to help condense the posts into smaller manageable chunks than.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenhog View Post
What's with that list of unused enemies? The Buggles are in Azure Temple, the Crawla Commander appears in Techno Legacy and the Jetty-Syn Gunner shows up in Egg Rock.
Thanks. I was not sure of those. I will check on those and update it eventually.
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Old 03-22-2020   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleT View Post
What is with everyone putting their thoughts into spoilers?
It's to condense down the size of the post so that the page isn't composed of a bunch of really long posts, making scrolling down through the thread a chore.
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Old 03-22-2020   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by time gear View Post
It's to condense down the size of the post so that the page isn't composed of a bunch of really long posts, making scrolling down through the thread a chore.
Spoiler:
On the other hand, it just swaps one chore for another. Scrolling or clicking multiple times to read the thread! ;p
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