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#21 | |
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#22 |
Wizard 1.0 is SRB3!
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This is beautiful, it really is. Wish I was there for it. ;v;
Next time a server like this pops up, I'm pouncing on it. |
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#23 | ||
Community Noise Maker
Developer
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#24 | |
Permanently Banned
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#25 | |
What part of 'RETIRED' don't you understand?
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Best way to think of it is like in time travel movies, where they say 'don't do X or you'll change the way the future turns out!'. The game would have to be 4D to remedy that issue (rewind to any point in time).
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Roly Poly Putt & TraceRace - for Android, iOS, & PC - http://www.spaddlewit.com Follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/SSNTails YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWy...P98afi_Sp0NdfQ |
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#26 |
Fangtastic
Administrator
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Ah, SRB2CS takes one back in time. I still remember one time in an SRB2CS CTF server, in Nimbus Ruins in particularly, where the game didn't remove the enemy flag I was holding even after respawning from falling in a death pit, allowing me to easily score a point for my team. That happened at least several times in the same session so I recall.
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My page stuffed full of MIDI goodness! The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Robo-Hoodiverse Timeline of Sonic Robo Blast History! That's an uppercase i, not a lowercase L, for the record. Also, it's pronounced "Yes-tin". |
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#27 |
Permanently Banned
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Not to mention the way something as simple as oscillating FOFs broke everything. Players standing on thin air in meadow match, anyone?
Mind you, it was still cool as hell, as a custom EXE. Getting to play with people from the other side of the Atlantic was fucking great, and I genuinely hope that it or something like it gets done again so I can have that experience again. It just... didn't come even remotely close to fulfilling the needs of the vanilla game. Last edited by Prime 2.0; 01-03-2017 at 07:14 PM. |
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#28 |
Fangtastic
Administrator
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In related news, we at the dev team are making progress with fixing netgame issues with particular stages. For instance I've now eliminated all issues with the lava falls in ERCZ for joiners, as well as the electric barrier for Brak Eggman himself disappearing for joiners. toaster has also made a fix for Eggscalibur's spikeballs in CEZ3 ending up underground for joiners. Our netcode is slowly getting more stable, can you believe it? \o/
No idea about issues with any other stages yet, if we knew of any particular points in maps where things consistently start going wrong then we can do something about them.
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My page stuffed full of MIDI goodness! The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Robo-Hoodiverse Timeline of Sonic Robo Blast History! That's an uppercase i, not a lowercase L, for the record. Also, it's pronounced "Yes-tin". |
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#29 | |
Downward spiral
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What are the chances it'll break again after 2.2 rolls in?
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#30 |
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Depends on the netcode i suppose, The less new engine (specifically mapping and modding) features the better lol.
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Also known as "RTB" on Discord Last edited by RomioTheBadass; 01-03-2017 at 08:45 PM. |
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#31 | |
ms reflec beat stan
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SRB2, even though it may be fast-paced, is much less reliant on those sorts of interactions. Players phase through each other, and the only interaction in ringslinger gametypes is through slow, predictable projectiles. Predictions would still be fairly accurate at a low enough ping (and high pings can still be adjusted for), but more importantly a wrong prediction has much less impact on the game, since shot resolution can recognize the chance of inaccuracy and adjust. There's no "rewinding" required: you'll basically take damage when the server says you take damage, unless you're allowed to opt into taking damage and tell the server that. (If that prediction is wrong? Sorry, but you'll just have to live with it.) They'll bounce back later than they would've in the current netcode, but that still doesn't affect the game's state much. As far as level geometry moving, just add some reasonable interpolation between known states and run the thinker slightly faster to catch up if it's way behind for some reason. Player positions can be latched to moving platforms when you know they're on the ground, and each client's map possibly being in slightly different positions - again - doesn't affect the game's state enough to be worth worrying over. A good comparison that comes to my mind is Splatoon. Like SRB2's ringslinger modes, it's a momentum-based game where shots have position and velocity and players are constantly ducking and weaving around each other. Splatoon does, admittedly, have hiccups where shots don't always register how you'd like them to, but you still have fairly smooth interactions in that game even with the player-controlled moving platforms in Ancho-V. Now, don't get me wrong; nobody's working on this right now. But it's absolutely technically possible to redo SRB2's netcode and remove control lag. The problem is the lack of motivated manpower. Last edited by fickleheart; 01-04-2017 at 04:03 AM. |
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#32 | |
What part of 'RETIRED' don't you understand?
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At least in Smash Bros, the levels are fairly static. But player interaction is of utmost importance. In SRB2, player interaction isn't nearly as important, like you said, but a player can trigger any sequence of events at any time that can be very difficult to correct in a sync. It's not gonna happen. The best we'll probably be able to do is Quake3-like lag control, where you think you dodged a bullet, but then the server says "no, you actually were right in the line of fire", and take damage. I'm not sure if that's better than eliminating the clag. Really, our best ally is the constantly-improving Internet. Back in 2001 I was able to host up to 10 people, running the server on a T3 (!). Now a lot of people have FiOS or similar services at home, with dramatically less latency. We used to do all of this on a dialup modem with 150ms ping.
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Roly Poly Putt & TraceRace - for Android, iOS, & PC - http://www.spaddlewit.com Follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/SSNTails YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWy...P98afi_Sp0NdfQ Last edited by SSNTails; 01-04-2017 at 02:48 PM. |
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#33 |
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The Scoreboard needs to be updated anyway, It doesn't show more than 18 Players on list, and doesn't show number of tokens found like it does in SP Mode, Sometimes it even fails to display the correct Scores for players on some modes (commonly Tag).
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Also known as "RTB" on Discord Last edited by RomioTheBadass; 01-04-2017 at 05:18 PM. |
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#34 | |
Permanently Banned
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#35 | |
Permanently Banned
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Now picture that "stop everything until script activation confirmed" issue being applied to custom character abilities. After all, a lua-based effect, even one tied to a player double-jumping, can do anything a button in a level can, so it would have to be subject to the same restrictions. Now you have the game stuttering on you constantly, every time you use your special ability... and then having to move forward to catch up with other people who were not frozen at that specific moment, but who none-the-less are also going through that but at different times... And, well, that's ignoring that you'd need to rewind everything anyways unless all the clients were in synch and all halted at the same time to wait for authorization, because of the aforementioned "button can stop complex actors which otherwise have to be rewinded" issue. So now anything that triggers an authorization cycle, done by any player, causes the netgame to pause for every player. It would be a clusterfuck. Last edited by Prime 2.0; 01-05-2017 at 06:45 AM. |
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#36 |
Lawful Neutral
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Hopefully this leads to more improvements. I really miss the larger netgames of 1.09.
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#37 | ||
ms reflec beat stan
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A server action would be something like "stepping on this button causes that platform moves to a specific location" or "this door opens somewhere in the level while I play unfitting music". Things that don't belong to a specific player would fall under this role. Those would be the things that the server would have to tell each client to do. Now, yes, this means if you step on a button, it will take a certain amount of time based on your ping before the door opens, but that's the tradeoff you have to make with netcode. Something like a player ability, on the other hand, would be a client action. Since it's important for the player to see their action happen as soon as they do it, they'll perform their butterfly spawning or projectile launching or whatever on their own, and at the same time tell the server what they did and when they did it, so that the server can get the other clients up to speed. If they need to do a server action, like open a door or destroy a level-owned enemy, they'll give the server a request to perform that action and wait for its approval before doing it. This is the exact kind of logic I applied earlier for the specific case of ringslinger shots; the concept of client actions vs server actions vs client requests for server actions is what allows such a thing to happen. That concept is the backbone of this sort of netcode, actually; without it, everything including player movement would be managed by the server and sent back to the clients, which... is exactly what we have now! Like I already said, no rewinding is required. If a prediction is wrong, the game deals with it and lets it happen. Game state will bring the clients back into sync, and everything will be fine. Thinking about things in terms of "every client must be absolutely sure they're doing things right" is the exact opposite mentality you have to have for good netcode in platformers. |
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#38 |
AKA Superjustinbros
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Well I'm glad the future of SRB2 multiplayer is looking up- it was always fun playing with others when I first did net games in 2013.
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#39 | |
Man of the Hour
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The ping lowers or gets higher sometimes depending on the stage. But its good to hear that our future netcode is getting Stable. Good work DevTeam, Keep it up!
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Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do - John Wooden Last edited by Boo; 01-07-2017 at 12:45 PM. |
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#40 |
Left this community (2019).
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Basically, if this is real life, sometimes you'd mildly twitch, and in SOME places, you'd become the goat from Goat Simulator.
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Trans rights are human rights. #fuckdysphoria |
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