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Old 05-29-2020   #1
Icarus
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Default Sonic: the Classic and Modern dichotomy

I'm always wondering why Sega had the idea to separate Sonic's older design (see: during the Genesis and Saturn days) from the new one (since the first Adventure game even if his modern design was fully made in Adventure 2 because of the Saturn roots of the first).

Sonic isn't the first video game character/company's mascot to have a design evolution (just look at Mario from the arcade days then the current one we have in Odyssey, you can see some changes. Same for non-video game companies).

Anyway my main question is: why? What was the point of making Classic Sonic as another character? Generations was fine with time travel (even if it could've been messy like in 2006) but Forces changed it again.

Mania could've just been a game between Sonic 3&K and Sonic 4 (even if I would prefer to say "and Adventure 1" or "and X-treme").

And even then the Modern Sonic from Unleashed and Colors to Lost World and Forces could be seen as a different one from Adventure 1/2 and Heroes (like how Saturn Sonic can be seen as a variation of Classic from the Genesis days) but this is up to debates.

I really hope that Sega will manage this in a better way for the 30th anniversary because this character had some identity crisis in the last decade.
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Old 05-29-2020   #2
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Classic is symbolic of a different game design philosophy than modern, capitalizing on the kinds of momentum game design and pinball physics that Sonic was founded on. Modern deviates so far from this that it's arguably more practical for the two styles to inhabit separate universes. This similar to how Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi are different canonical offshoots of the mainline Mario franchise.
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Old 05-29-2020   #3
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Well, Sonic's always had a rough transition into 3D-
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Old 05-29-2020   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClassicNC View Post
Well, Sonic's always had a rough transition into 3D-
When you think about it many videogame franchises had a rough passage into 3D. Remember Earthworm Jim 3D? Remember how Pac-Man has fallen into the limbo despite having a decent 3D platformer on the PS1 (I mean many people mostly know Pac-Man's first game on the arcade than games like Pac-Man World). Remember how the Mega Man Legends sub-serie fanbase is rather niche compared to the fans of the Classic and MMX serie?
Mario having a great first 3D game was a miracle honestly. But how many other Nintendo franchises aside from Zelda got a great 3D start? We didn't get Metroid 64 and Donkey Kong 64 wasn't as good as the SNES trilogy.
While Sega as a whole struggled because the Saturn was better built for 2D, that the console didn't have a Sonic game (because it was cancelled) and that Nights Into Dreams didn't get the recognition because people wanted a "true 3D game" and not an arcade styled 2.5D one.


Sorry for my rambling but the mid-90's pushed 3D so much that devs had to rush some of their IPs...

---------- Post added at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 AM ----------

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Classic is symbolic of a different game design philosophy than modern, capitalizing on the kinds of momentum game design and pinball physics that Sonic was founded on.
Then why Sega pushed the "speed" and "cool" side for both?



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Modern deviates so far from this that it's arguably more practical for the two styles to inhabit separate universes. This similar to how Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi are different canonical offshoots of the mainline Mario franchise.
Does this mean that the Adventure games (and the subsequent modern Sonic game) are in fact a spinoff from the original Sonic serie on the Genesis?
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Old 05-30-2020   #5
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Then why Sega pushed the "speed" and "cool" side for both?
Because an eight year old is less likely to see the appeal of "deep and complex physics-based platforming" than they are to see the appeal of "SASSY HEDGEHOG, GO FAST". Comparing the two styles simply based on the similarity of marketing strategy alone is only going to give you a skin-deep analysis of what's different.

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Does this mean that the Adventure games (and the subsequent modern Sonic game) are in fact a spinoff from the original Sonic serie on the Genesis?
Would be more accurate to call it a rebranding than anything else, IMO.
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Old 05-30-2020   #6
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I'm sorry I made this thread at like 2 AM I don't know why.


It's just that Forces made me realize that Sega simply messed up their character's identity (I mean unless they explicitly say that only one version of Sonic is the company's mascot while the other is for 2D games but then again there are Modern 2D Sonic games like Advance).


I think Generations should've been a one-time story and that Mania could have been just a dream (I know, it's lazy narratively but it's like how we can see Knuckles & Knuckles).


Forces didn't need Classic (nor Avatar but that's another debate) and it didn't need to bring back previous villains (I mean who asked for Zavok? Why Shadow is a villain again? Why Chaos isn't even fought as a boss but only appeared in a cutscene? Why Metal Sonic has been nerfed once again?).


PS: when Lost World was announced I thought it was a game involving Classic Sonic because of the look of the game.


PPS: Why Sega felt like rebranding Sonic anyway? Adventure would've been fine if an upscaled version of Saturn Sonic was in it.
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Old 05-31-2020   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
When you think about it many videogame franchises had a rough passage into 3D. Remember Earthworm Jim 3D? Remember how Pac-Man has fallen into the limbo despite having a decent 3D platformer on the PS1 (I mean many people mostly know Pac-Man's first game on the arcade than games like Pac-Man World). Remember how the Mega Man Legends sub-serie fanbase is rather niche compared to the fans of the Classic and MMX serie?
Mario having a great first 3D game was a miracle honestly. But how many other Nintendo franchises aside from Zelda got a great 3D start? We didn't get Metroid 64 and Donkey Kong 64 wasn't as good as the SNES trilogy.
While Sega as a whole struggled because the Saturn was better built for 2D, that the console didn't have a Sonic game (because it was cancelled) and that Nights Into Dreams didn't get the recognition because people wanted a "true 3D game" and not an arcade styled 2.5D one.


Sorry for my rambling but the mid-90's pushed 3D so much that devs had to rush some of their IPs...
It was a joke, but you have a good point. The only reason 3D Sonic is hated on is probably because:

Mario did it 1st

The critics of SA1 and 2 played the ports of these games.

Classic Sonic fans blindly hating on 3D Sonic



Enough of that, here's what I think of the Sonic cannon




Sonic went through puberty in between S3&K and SA1, and he brought some contact lenses for some weird reason. Sonic's friends saw how WAY COOL Sonic looked with contact lenses and decided to get some of their own. Amy also made her hair to impress Sonic, but he didn't really care. Just before Unleashed, Tails had a mental breakdown and lost all will to fight (and now he has PTSD). Eggman just became even more eggy than before. Sonic gave up on spindashin' and forgot how powerful it use to be...
Sonic is now a bit over his head after saving the world a lot of times and is now a dick to everybody, and that explains Forces.
In conclusion, Sonic has had a rough transi-
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Old 06-01-2020   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClassicNC View Post
It was a joke, but you have a good point. The only reason 3D Sonic is hated on is probably because:

Mario did it 1st

The critics of SA1 and 2 played the ports of these games.

Classic Sonic fans blindly hating on 3D Sonic
Honestly I also think that:
  1. Mario did a lot of things first (Sonic was primarily made to compete with Mario, let's not ignore that) and Sonic basically didn't follow Mario's steps.
  2. It's complicated, I mean even if the ports aren't all as good as the original/previous version the Adventure games aren't flawless, I mean even SA1 DC had Big the Cat as a mandatory character to see the ending and SA2 is still 1/3 Sonic gameplay and the other two thirds aren't.
  3. Well blindly hating on something isn't good but it can be understandable that some fans of the Genesis days could've been bitter about the direction the serie has gone into since the Dreamcast days.





Quote:
Originally Posted by ClassicNC View Post
Enough of that, here's what I think of the Sonic cannon

Sonic went through puberty in between S3&K and SA1, and he brought some contact lenses for some weird reason. Sonic's friends saw how WAY COOL Sonic looked with contact lenses and decided to get some of their own. Amy also made her hair to impress Sonic, but he didn't really care. Just before Unleashed, Tails had a mental breakdown and lost all will to fight (and now he has PTSD). Eggman just became even more eggy than before. Sonic gave up on spindashin' and forgot how powerful it use to be...
Sonic is now a bit over his head after saving the world a lot of times and is now a dick to everybody, and that explains Forces.
In conclusion, Sonic has had a rough transi-
There was a theory about how Sonic got his green eyes, I think it was because of the Master Emerald influence that Sonic kept even after S3&K.


Aside from that I can see that Sonic's design from Sonic 3 & Knuckles and Sonic Adventure 1 looks like a slow transition from Classic to Modern Sonic (I mean especially since S3K Sonic's sprite is a slightly darker blue and that his SA2 design is in an even darker blue than SA1's).
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