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#1 |
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With the update to 2.2 many enemies been updated or new ones added. My question to you all are how do you feel about the enemies? Which ones do you like and which ones causes you frustration? To help things out I have listed all the enemies in the game listed on Zone Builder and a description to help identify the enemy if needed.
Greenflower Zone Crawla (Blue) Crawla (Red) Stupid Dumb Unnamed RoboFish Techno Hill Zone Buzz (Gold) Buzz (Red) Deton - Red ball thing that moves at you really fast. Turret - The machine laser. Spring Shell (Green) Deep Sea Zone Skim Jet Jaw Crushstacean Castle Eggman Zone Robo-Hood Lance-a-Bot Suspicious Lance-a-Bot Statue Egg Guard Arid Canyon Zone Bird Aircraft Strike Hazard Green Snapper Minus - The bot that dig in the ground. Canarivore - That thing making smoke above. Red Volcano Zone Unidus - The black ball with the spikes around it. Pterabyte Spawner Pyre Fly Dragonbomber - Catepillar thing drops explosives. Egg Rock Zone Pop-up Turret - The small robot that pops up and shoots one round. Jetty-Syn Bomber - Green flying thing. Spincushion - Funny thing making pinball sounds when it attacks. Snailer Frozen Hillside Zone Penguinator Pophat Haunted Heights Zone Spinbobert - Ghost. Cacolantern - Cacodemon turned into flying pumpkin. Hangster - Bat creature. Aerial Garden Zone Hve Elemental Bumblebore Unused Enemies Spring Shell (Yellow) Banpyura - Looks similar to the crab in Deep Sea Zone but blue. Jetty-Syn Gunner - Looks similar to the Jetty-Syn Bomber but brown. Crawla Commander Buggle - Unknown. Pointy - Unknown. Last edited by TripleT; 03-13-2020 at 07:20 AM. |
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#2 |
Community Noise Maker
Developer
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Deep Sea Zone has a pretty solid enemy set. Crushtacean is very simple in design, but it does a really good job of introducing a kind of territory control that forces the player to respect it and carefully move around it, without necessarily breaking game flow. Knocking around the mines to trigger a chain reaction is also a really fun mechanic.
Castle Eggman might have arguably the best set of enemies though. By mixing and matching the set of enemies in different environments, you get really compelling combat scenarios in which the different strengths of each enemy synergize in different ways. Red Volcano Zone also has some cool concepts, though I think there's an open question as to how well designed the Pterabyte is. As for weakest design, I feel that Greenflower could use an update. There's effectively only two enemy types in the entire zone (crawla and jumping fish). The crawla's movement type is really uninspiring and doesn't allow for the type of creative usage that comes with the later enemies that have more deliberate territorial or pattern-based behavior. I also think it could be a bit of an issue that there's no projectile enemy introduced into the game until the GFZ3 boss and that we should introduce some stationary enemy with a slow-moving projectile to warm players up to dodging bullets. Another enemy that needs reconsideration is the Crawla Commander. This thing is pretty nonviable in terms of placement; its behavior might work better if the enemy was split up into two single-hit enemies, one for each attack phase. I do like the idea of having an elite version of the most basic enemy, but it might be worth redoing the gameplay from the ground up. |
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#3 |
Permanently Banned
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I think Greenflower needs a gentle enemy like the Crawla but airborne. Like a buzzbomber that can't shoot. Maybe the bees from Aerial Garden, actually, but way fewer of them and far less aggressive.
The crawla helps the player learn to, ah, "robo blast" the badniks by rolling or spindashing, but aside from the fish or the crawlas on different platforms, you're not learning to use your jump attack until the boss fight in GF3. I want to be able to "thok" through more enemies in GF1 and GF2, I think! Then I guess there could be more Buzzes in Techno Hill to compensate for adding very gentle flying enemies to the first level? .. Castle Eggman robots are perfect. Great designs. The Egg Knight, Lanceabot, has an amazing design. I love that they're two-hits. ... The Pterabyte in Red Volcano is a horrible bastard, but I would be okay with this if they didn't drop the player in a bottomless pit. I kind of like the difficulty pitch in the way they're so aggressive... but there needs to be a bit more of a net for the player, otherwise the experience sours from fun into frustrating. I think the experience you want is that the first few attempts at jumping in the Pterabyte areas, you get caught, miss your jump and lose your rings, but you can land on a platform and then work your way back up again, get some rings, try again and this time jump around or jump through the devil birds. ... I like that the freed animals from the badniks seem to hover around the player and follow for a moment. Like in GF1 with the Atomic Shield and blasting all of the Crawlas at once, it's fun to have that "end of Sonic 1" thing with all of the free animals hopping around the player. I wonder if it would be possible for a mod to make the animals be collectible?? Because I feel like, in addition to rings / emerald tokens / emblems, the game wouldn't hurt to have 1 or 2 additional mid-level collectible things just for fun. Collectible Animals would encourage a player to do a run-through where you search out and destroy each badnik. Of course, then the question is, to what end? You collect the animals to do what? I'm not saying there needs to be a Chao Garden. Okay well yes I am saying that. No, not really. Honestly the reward is just the rescue itself, it doesn't need to have an ambitious payoff. For example in Sonic Dash, you collect the animals and once you have a certain number, then you can fix up the Eggman pollution to install a flickie bird bath or whatever on the home screen. Could just be as simple as killing all enemies / freeing all animals earns the player a "Freedom Fighter" medal. Last edited by Moose the Fat Cat; 03-13-2020 at 08:09 AM. |
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#4 |
Call me Nadia
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In one of the more recent 3D Sonic games (Lost World, maybe?) the Motobugs kind of amble about aimlessly until they see Sonic, at which point they slowly chase him swinging their arms. It's a very simple change to the original Motobug's behavior that updates them to a more modern standard of a 3D game fodder enemy without making them too complex. I think that would work well for the Crawlas--have them act the way they do now, just slowly moving towards the player's coordinates, and then when they're close enough have them start to pursue a little more aggressively.
Additionally, maybe the Red Crawlas could have a lazy little projectile like the Crabmeat's in Sonic 1. Not a real threat if you're paying attention. Maybe instead of trying to collide with the player to damage them, when the Red Crawla is close enough, it stops moving and pops out a little projectile in an arc like the Crabmeat does, flashing and making a small sound to indicate it's about to fire. Aside from the Crawlas, the only enemies I would really change are the pterabytes. I think they should be in groups no larger than two at a time, and either make them easier to button-mash out of, or have them drop the player in jump state so they can thok or glide or whatever to safety. Also, I think the drop off distance for sound volume is a little too low. I often get surprised by knights charging in from off-screen because I can't hear them, even though they're still in the same room. On that note, I think the piranhas in Deep Sea Zone need some kind of sound effect when they're in chase mode. Getting snuck up on in Deep Sea Zone is no fun. SRB2 is a 3D game so the player doesn't have the benefit of being able to see behind them like in the 2D Sonic games, so sound cues (and maybe visual ones, for deaf players) are very important to making the player feel like they're not getting cheaped out by enemies. Aside from that I have no real suggestions. The enemies are all great and unique. I especially love the little crab guy in Deep Sea Zone, he's really cute and very Classic Sonic. |
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#5 | |
Wandering Protagonist
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What's with that list of unused enemies? The Buggles are in Azure Temple, the Crawla Commander appears in Techno Legacy and the Jetty-Syn Gunner shows up in Egg Rock.
Mostly I have the same things to say softchassis did (the Lance-a-bot and the Robo-Hood need to be able to be heard from further away, the Jet Jaws need a tell for their chase mode). Beyond that... is it just me, or is the BASH even more ineffective than it was before? I see them taking off and charging at me... then I never see them again, unless I purposefully hang around and let them orbit me. I guess they're not killing themselves now but they're basically nothing compared to the zone's other enemies.
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#6 |
Idiot
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This has been said, but I agree that Pterabytes could use some tweaks and the Jet Jaw needs some kind of sound for when it launches at you. Jet Jaws are also really small so it's easy to not see them because they were blocked by your sprite or something and get completely blind sided by them at points. Additionally, as much as I love Crushtaceans, they are a bit overly threatening. Like it feels like they are way too aggressive and accurate to the point that it is never an option to interact with them at all, which I guess is the point but it's still really weird that they feel like one of the nastiest enemies and they're in the third zone. Maybe they are intended to just be completely avoided but I think it would be nicer if they were a bit more predictable so you could eventually memorize them. I mean it's fun to be able to fight the enemies sometimes, there are so many enemies in the game already that are designed to just be avoided. As they are now, it almost feels like they change their attack speeds and react way too fast to be predictable, you almost always take a hit when fighting them because of this. Maybe the hitbox is really big or something, I don't know, I seem to get hit even when I jump over their claw sometimes but it might be just me.
Also the Green Snapper guys seem a bit too risky to attack at all, their weak point is in such a tricky place and they move so fast that you're almost always better off not interacting. It's like a 50% chance you'll just get hit with how hard it is to perfectly hit them. I still love all these enemies though, just think that some are a bit too threatening for their own good. Or I might just be bad. |
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#7 | |
Permanently Banned
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I love Deep Sea Zone but I wonder if it would make more sense for it to be level 4 instead of 3. Greenflower > Techno Hill > Castle Eggman > Deep Sea > Arid Canyon > Red Volcano Feels a bit more logical to storm Eggman's castle after his factory. It's raining at Castle Eggman, and at the end, you'd be dropped into the moat. Once out of the underground labyrinth and the caves, you make your way up to find yourself in a desert canyon. From there you follow the train tracks to Red Volcano and Eggman's rocketship into space. |
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#8 |
Permanently Banned
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Crushtacean is actually pretty simple to handle, but it takes most people a bit to figure out. The solution is to jump on it when it punches at you. The fist cannot go upwards, so you will jump over its fist and land on it safely. Even Knuckles can do this safely, although he has less grace room to do so.
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#9 |
Wiki Admin
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Crushstaceans are one of the coolest enemies, because they show that some elements from the 2D games (in this case, the Metropolis Zone crab enemies with the obnoxiously small hitboxes) actually work better in 3D. At first glance they're just as annoying as the ones from Sonic 2, but if you know how to handle them they add a cool amount of depth to the zone and how to beat it without getting hit. Also, having crab enemies in a water zone makes so much more sense than having them in a factory zone.
The enemies in this game are great overall, but I want to say the red Crawla is barely any more threatening than the blue one which I think could really use a change. |
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#10 | |
Community Noise Maker
Developer
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Honestly, it's probably the best designed enemy in the entire game. |
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#11 |
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Spoiler: gfz Spoiler: thz Spoiler: dsz Spoiler: cez Spoiler: acz Spoiler: rvz Spoiler: erz |
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#12 |
Idiot
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I doubted myself so I just went and played through Deep Sea like 10 times and messed with the Crushtaceans for ages and still stand by what I said. They feel way too fast and aggressive for their placements. I don't know how to explain it, like you see it there, run up and bam it just fires even when you don't expect it to. It's weirdly aggressive and inconsistent sometimes, I swear it's not just me. Even the range of it's attack feels like too much sometimes. And sometimes you jump and the claw still clips you, this happened consistently when I thought I had it down after messing with them for ages. The hitbox is huge. I like the enemy, but it feels too annoying for where it's placed sometimes. It's not difficult per say, just janky and annoying. Still a good enemy, but I seriously think some tweaks could be made. Also, for reference, I'm not inexperienced with the game and have played all the levels with Sonic like hundreds of times. This isn't me complaining about difficulty I'm just giving feedback on the enemies, Crushtacean just feels jank to me that's all.
Last edited by Wosh; 04-20-2020 at 03:53 AM. |
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#13 |
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Crushtaceans need to have a longer vulnerability period. Just leave the claw out for longer, and retract it really slowly. I think that would help a lot.
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#14 |
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Spoiler: GFZ Spoiler: THZ Spoiler: DSZ Spoiler: CEZ Spoiler: ACZ Spoiler: RVZ Spoiler: ERZ Spoiler: FHZ Spoiler: HHZ Spoiler: AGZ Spoiler: Brand new badnik ideas that I had Last edited by time gear; 03-22-2020 at 10:17 PM. |
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#15 |
aka Cirom
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Spoiler: Greenflower Zone Spoiler: Techno Hill Zone Spoiler: Deep Sea Zone Spoiler: Castle Eggman Zone Spoiler: Arid Canyon Zone Spoiler: Red Volcano Zone Spoiler: Egg Rock Zone Spoiler: Bonus/Challenge Levels
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The name's Cirom! Maybe I'll get my username changed someday. Today is not that day. |
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#16 |
Extended Ban (Strike 3)
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you could do spawn enemies or something and then you could see the blue one like I did with devmode 1
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#17 |
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Spoiler: Greenflower Zone Spoiler: Techno Hill Zone Spoiler: Deep Sea Zone Spoiler: Castle Eggman Zone Spoiler: Arid Canyon Zone Spoiler: Red Volcano Zone Spoiler: Egg Rock Zone Spoiler: Bonus/Challenge Levels
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Knight needs caffeine badly |
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#18 |
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What is with everyone putting their thoughts into spoilers? Like if people who have not done this game really do not want to be spoiled they would not check this thread. Unless the spoilers are being used to help condense the posts into smaller manageable chunks than.
Thanks. I was not sure of those. I will check on those and update it eventually. |
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#19 |
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#20 |
Permanently Banned
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