Nintendo Wii. Your opinions

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Sonic260 said:
Graphics are the reason why Sonic Unleashed 360 got a lower score than Sonic The Hedgehog '06.

Even though pretty much everyone of a respectable position in the Sonic Community and most proffesional reviewers found it to be the better version?

Sonic Unleashed 360 got poor reviews at IGN and Gamespot for, in the reviewer's opinion the amount of padding in the game (Werehog etc.), the 360 version has a 1/1 Werehog/Sonic level ratio, the Wii level ratio is skewed in the werehog's favor (By a rather large margin, if what I have read is correct), therefor, by all reasonable logic, the Wii version would have recieved just as bad of a review (if not worst) in the same circumstances.

TL;DR I fail to see how reliance on Graphics is the reason why the reviewer marked the game down when a much larger problem was specifically cited by the Reviewer (which, ironically enough, is a bigger problem in the Wii version).

In regards to the Wii, it has enormous potential which it never fails to demonstrate occasionally (Mario Galaxy etc.), but therein lies the problem. The only real games of merit come from Nintendo themselves, and good, third party developed titles, whilst not non-existant, are rather in-frequent (especially when compared to it's rival consoles and the PC) and will probably continue to be so until the general public stop buying complete and utter shit (Babiez Party etc.).
 
Simsmagic said:
Now, third-parties are butchering their games on it with god-awful controls and gameplay. The actual first-party developers are pretty much only interested in capturing the casual videogame audience with "toy" games, not paying too much attention to the gamers who want their classic franchises.

I think that over the past few months and the next few months we are seeing third parties actually take proper consideration of what the Wii can do. While reading the IGN editorials on "Deadly Creatures" I am pleasantly astonished by the amount of consideration and work they put into it. They are seriously trying to make a good game, and not simply cash in on the Wii's expanded audience. "de Blob" is another example where the console was done justice, mostly because the game was made for it because it was the console best suited to bring out the game. Even "Sonic Unleashed" shows a competent understanding when they made two entirely different versions of the game so that while the Wii is still limited by the PS2 and they still put cheap gimmicks in there, they are at least showing it individual attention.

Nintendo said at their E3 that this year was the 3rd parties' chance to shine, and things are already beginning to look good for them. Meanwhile, Nintendo keeps entertaining the expanded audience through so-called "casual" games, continuing to refine the functionality of the Wii through addons such as Motionplus, Wiispeak, and next years memory solution, and all the while keeping more hardcore games in development behind closed doors.

In secret, with a long development cycle, which is apparently notable for Nintendo. I was actually quite surprised with the amount of 1st party games that came in two years given this reputation... Last year, five extremely popular, and extremely refined games came out in the space of six months. (Fall 08-Spring 09) I wonder how many franchises they can possibly have left to release other than Pikmin and Kid Icarus.
 
Alright, let's start with a little history.

The first major interactive electronic I had been introduced to was the personal computer. This way way back when I was still two to three years old. I could point, I could click, I could engage in interactive storybooks, and I could attempt to play the Bicycle Bridge card game, although I had no idea how it actually worked - I was merely clicking on things with the mouse.

I was introduced to video games around the age of three, four, five? I can't remember, but one day I went over to a friend's house, and there was an NES hooked up to the TV in one of the bedrooms, where we played Super Mario Bros. I wasn't very good at it, but I was still fascinated. For some reason I always thought that there would be more and more mushrooms which would cause Mario to keep growing and growing until immensely large. I also got the chance to play video games when I visited my cousins over in Tennessee. Jessie was queen at Mario, and I always looked up to her. At one point I went over to one of their neighbors, who had a Super Nintendo, which hosted some amazing graphics and sound. I played Super Mario World and I always wondered why Mario did a drill when he jumped.

My first video game system was the Game Boy Pocket. I had received numerous games for this little device, such as Super Mario Land, Super Mario Land 2, Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle II, even some more obscure games like Mole Mania (also made by Nintendo for those unaware). It got dropped on a few occasions, causing the speaker to vibrate and it partially corrupted the graphic data in my Donkey Kong Land 2 cartridge. This made me sad and it taught me to take better care of my electronics. The Color version came out shortly after, and brought some new life to my games.

Then came the Nintendo 64. I bought this with my own allowance and it introduced some amazing new concepts for its time. I couldn't believe witnessing Mario perform so many moves with combinations of the A, B, and Z buttons, and every time he jumped, he made a different grunt. It was incredible. Shortly to follow was the Gamecube, which had some gorgeous cinematic effects and a controller that was incredibly comfortable. I bought quite a few fun games for both of these systems. Friends owned games for their Nintendo systems that they let me try out or even borrow. While I had a decent amount of games, I was still missing out on a lot of great stuff, and that was the beauty of things.

At the same time came the Game Boy Advance with its 32-bit capability and 4-player single-game linking, and the Nintendo DS with its 3D and dual screens, one of which was a touch-screen. Good times were had.

When the Wii was introduced, I thought it was nice that they were extending the gimmick of the DS to the television. I did enjoy it when I got it originally, despite the somewhat lackluster launch titles. I waited around for some good new games, but the ones I did get related to my favorite franchises proved to be disappointing in some way or another. To make matters worse, it would seem Nintendo isn't bothered to rectify the situation.

Here's the deal. I've been using Nintendo's products for over a decade now. Offerings by other systems didn't even come close. I mean, what? I went up to a Playstation booth in the video rental store and it had this 2D side-scroller with some random fighter guy God-knows-who in a desert God-knows-where doing God-knows-what in a game that had absolutely no kind of recognition or redeeming quality whatsoever (anyone care to identify what this game was?). Meanwhile, Nintendo had Super Mario 64 or Diddy Kong Racing. Which of the booths do you think I'd go for? The one exception I'd make would be Sonic the Hedgehog. Back when his games were actually good.

The thing is, Nintendo delivered where other companies had failed. I wanted crazy platforming action, they had Mario. And of course it didn't stop there, for there were many other franchises available, each with their own quality games. Oh, and Yoshi. How the hell can I forget Yoshi?

I'm not convinced the Wii is all it's cracked up to be. Previously, Nintendo's systems have each brought something new to the table that had factored into the games in relevant ways. The Wii was somewhat impressive initially because instead of pressing a button, I could shake a hunk of plastic up and down. Unfortunately, Nintendo's decision to stop upgrading the graphics at around the Gamecube level was poor and ill-conceived. All the competitors have delivered technologically superior systems, despite their high prices, and the Wii has been left in the dust with blurry textures and a laughable 640x400 resolution. It's a fine screen size for 2D, but for 3D it just doesn't make the cut anymore. A computer monitor can display at least six times the amount of information the Wii can. It's pathetic.

And while the Wii has made advancements in interfacing and extras, all the features present in the console and its software are either pointless or have yet to reach maturity and feature-completeness. Compare the Wii to the PC. On Windows you get image editing, web access through all kinds of programs, protocols, and methods, just about every piece of software ever developed under the sun, as well as Steam, which provides digital game distribution of quality titles, as well as a means for social interaction between players (as if IRC and forums weren't enough). The Wii doesn't even come close, and even other consoles do better in this area. I know that Nintendo has primarily focused on games, but if you're going to add extras, you need to make them count. This is a total half-assed effort on Nintendo's part.

Oh, and the games. Where in hell are the games? No, I'm not talking about Wii Sports or Wii Music or Wii Sports Resort or Wii Sports Country Club or Wii Sports Racing Country Club. I'm talking about the kind of stuff I grew up with. Oh, what's this voice I hear? Brawl? Anything else? ...Brawl? And someone else mentioned something about licensed movie garbage. Too bad I don't have a reason to play Brawl, since right now I don't have real-life gaming friends anymore. You know, back in the days of the N64 and Gamecube. Oh, that's right, they've all moved on to bigger and better things. Like the 360. Tough luck, Nintendo. It looks like you need to try harder. Much harder. Because, while you've garnered relationships with young fans, you've completely dropped the ball and decided to shut them out now. Yes, the fans who have bought your systems and games for the past twenty years. Don't they deserve something better?

In the process you've also made some huge blunders. You've lost second parties who have made great games, and then attempted to create sequels to those in a first-party manner with disastrous results. You've also given first-party material to unremarkable second parties for them to make a complete mockery of your creations and disappoint all of your fans. All while you sit around and do nothing but develop Wii Lacrosse in a short effort and then spend the rest of your "labor" on marketing. And thanks to your poor decisions relating to the hardware as mentioned earlier, other developers don't want to hop aboard due to the vast differences in terms of platform specifics. Either that or they're busy churning out shallow casual games based off of movie licenses. Meanwhile, Yoshi's been bastardized and you don't give a damn anymore. And Donkey Kong is completely meaningless.

Oh, and Cammie Dunaway. Nothing quite says ignorance and lies like this and several other new press releases, which, among other things, advertise lavish shopping "paradises" filled with fifteen jacuzzis each, while you entertain numbnut celebrities with a not-so-exciting-as-previously Mario game that was released several years ago instead of anything different and potentially more satisfactory because you can't be assed to make anything new and instead decide to sit on top of your money like a proud hen doing absolutely nothing productive besides deceptive marketing which on its own might even bring into question whether or not it is actually considered productive:
http://press.nintendo.com/articles.jsp?id=17109

Just look at that list of games. Just. Look. At. Those. Games. They call this a diverse lineup? Oh yeah, and you also said once that Pikmin and Animal Crossing would be enough to satisfy "core gamers" as you call them. Have you lost your touch this much?

This is why I don't like the Wii anymore. Argue all you want, but it'll take more than "BRAWL!" to convince me to stray away from Steam since Valve is actually smart and cares about their loyal fanbase, attempting to fix bugs, exploits, and address classic gameplay problems in new and exciting ways. Meanwhile, in an ironic twist, Nintendo is bringing out the same old stuff, and fading into the distance as their brand recognition moves away from exciting characters to plastic bobbleheads.
 
FoxBlitzz said:
Offerings by other systems didn't even come close. The one exception I'd make would be Sonic the Hedgehog. Back when his games were actually good. The thing is, Nintendo delivered where other companies had failed.

"Competition promotes excellence. The SNES would not be what it is today had it not been for the Genesis. The actual nonbiased historical record shows that Nintendo was in no hurry to release the console, let alone decent games, until the Genesis came onto the scene. Sega's 16-bitter was the benchmark system around which the fortunes of the SNES revolved, and even several top Nintendo executives have grudgingly admitted that fact. Just look at what software was available for the SNES before 1992-1993 and the stuff that followed. Can you honestly say that there would have been a Super Mario RPG, Super Metroid, Donkey Kong Country, a Chrono Trigger, or hundreds of other such excellent SNES titles from 1993 onward had it not been for the competition fueled by Sega's console?"

Thanks you Sega base, and Genesis really did what Nintendidn't.

My analysis is that Nintendo only delivered because of Sega. The Genesis was the system to beat and the one and only major threat that came far to toppling Nintendo, which it did, until aorund '94 when Sega started losing the 65% market share it stole.
 
ninja said:
1st Xbox360
2nd Wii
3rd PS3
My opinion, If you want my reason, il say it later in the topic.

Why go for the new three? it's a bit pointless.

Anyway, the flaw with new consoles, Wii being the exception, is in the games. The reason Wii sucks is because every two or three games that you buy require you to buy a new controller, whether it be a nunchuck, a pistol, or a cheese wedge with five analog sticks and an F button. The second reason is because the Wii can't seem to register the complex movements of the controller, an example being in Wii Tennis, which apparently is supposed to keep you fit, and yet you can sit on the couch twitching the controller back and forwards while your on-screen character runs all over the court, hitting everything for you. The only games you can properly do on the Wii are First Person Shooters, and even in those the analog stick's connection cord to the main controller gets tangled everywhere quite pointless.
 
FoxBlitzz said:
Nothing quite says ignorance and lies like this and several other new press releases, which, among other things, advertise lavish shopping "paradises" filled with fifteen jacuzzis each, while you entertain numbnut celebrities with a not-so-exciting-as-previously Mario game that was released several years ago instead of anything different and potentially more satisfactory because you can't be assed to make anything new and instead decide to sit on top of your money like a proud hen doing absolutely nothing productive besides deceptive marketing which on its own might even bring into question whether or not it is actually considered productive.
You know that this is one giant sentence, right?

Say what you want, Nintendo has merely changed who they're marketing to. They know that there's a bunch of people who don't really play hardcore title, and they're trying to sell games to those people. Granted, you aren't one of those people, and neither am I.

On the other end of the stick, you like Valve because they target hardcore PC gamers with reaaaallly expensive computers that only play multiplayer games with people they don't know IRL. You are one of those people, so you like what they're doing. 'Nuff said.
 
It would be nice if there were more hardcore titles. But I understand. It sounds to me like Nintendo's thinking:

"We can't compete with Sony and Microsoft in the hardcore gamer audience. They'll inevitably win. Let's try something different."
 
It seems to me they're compromising. They've got some hardcore titles, but mostly it's the stuff that attracts a new audience, so they're going into territory in the market where only smaller companies have gone: the casual gamers. At the same time, we have downloadable titles, so hardcore and retro gamers have a bit more to look forward if their old NES broke down, or if they were just too young or broke to truly experience the SNES.

It seems to me that Nintendo has a tendency of bringing in really obscure titles, though.... I'd feel more comfortable downloading a game I know is going to be good, like Super Mario RPG, not Elevator Action. >_>
 
Blue Warrior said:
It seems to me that Nintendo has a tendency of bringing in really obscure titles, though.... I'd feel more comfortable downloading a game I know is going to be good, like Super Mario RPG, not Elevator Action. >_>



Well, This year is starting out rather good compared to the Lackluster VC releases the last few months. Already they got Kirbys Dream Land 3 and Castlevania 3 out, And still planning on SSB64 for Japanese Release this month.


As for my opinions on the Wii itself.

I'm a 50/50 of Casual Games *Only First Party ones.* and Hardcore Franchises, So the Wii seems to be working great for me, Plus, Being able to buy Neo-Geo and PC-Engine games on a NINTENDO Console is just Win.
 
BlueZero4 said:
You know that this is one giant sentence, right?

Yes, that was on purpose. Good observational skills.

Say what you want, Nintendo has merely changed who they're marketing to.

And by doing so, they have suddenly decided to stop making games that would be of interest to non-casuals. Remember when we had all those crazy Nintendo DS games coming out? I want to see that again. Their offerings the past nine months have been incredibly disappointing and lackluster. Actually, scratch that. Did they even have any offerings during that period? This is a famine. Nintendo should make and release more interesting games to end this hunger.

On the other end of the stick, you like Valve because they target hardcore PC gamers with reaaaallly expensive computers

No, that's what Crysis is for. I believe Valve has actually stated once that they were disappointed with what Microsoft has done with Vista, and opted to stick to DirectX 9, rather than try to be on the very cutting edge. They may have recently slashed support for DirectX 7 and 8 with their latest releases, but my DirectX 9 card is three years old now and it still runs their games quite nicely at high settings.

I like Valve because they have picked a target audience, and continued to foster relationships with their customers, instead of backstabbing them like what Nintendo has done. As a relatively independent, laid-back company, they know that public relations is incredibly important, especially after the initial shock that has happened with the release of Steam, and of course the online play antics over in Counter Strike. And while Valve has fixed gameplay issues in future titles, they haven't skimped on giving support to those that enjoyed the original games. In my opinion, this is what every good company should be about.

:SonicMaster: said:
It sounds to me like Nintendo's thinking: "We can't compete with Sony and Microsoft in the hardcore gamer audience. They'll inevitably win. Let's try something different."

Nintendo already has what the other companies don't: A huge selection of franchises that are fun and kid-friendly, yet appeal to adults. Mario and company, Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong, F-ZERO, etc. etc. Previously, Nintendo has taken advantage of this far more than they are doing now. Why aren't they using these quite as much now? The only possible reason I can think of is that they're taking the casual market far too seriously.
 
Of course, Nintendo's arrogance is ultimately going to come and bite them on the ass before long, much as it has done in the past. As highly lucrative as the "casual" market is at the moment, I can't really see it providing a solid source of profit for any long-term investment, as the main-stream consumer market basically stems down to products like the Wii coming out, everyone going apeshit for a few years before something even more ball-bustingly-hip comes along. Unless their quick off their feet, they're going to get trampled.

The fact that they've single handedly alienated most of their loyal audience doesn't really help their case either.
 
FoxBlitzz said:
...my DirectX 9 card is three years old now and it still runs their games quite nicely at high settings.
I was mostly commenting on how my computer sucks.
 
The wii is a great system. It would be cool to have that inavative controller work for pc. In the graphics departmet? Its just a PS2 dressed like a mac. But its a good quality sytem. No need for hard drives and possibale crashes like the 360. But the abilaty to add pc games like "SRB2" would be very cool.
 
If you want my opinion....You asked for it! Wii SUCKS! (Graphics Wise)Nintendo DOWN-graded the graphics since Gamecube. So to hide it Nintendo made the Wii have better textures. So that it could hide the poor Geometry, and very poor polygons. The Wii has somewhat erratic controls, and I admit sometimes clever gameplay. But do not be mistaken 360 Arcade is a better deal and is much cheaper! Plus Wii's friend code system is harder to find friends than Microsoft's Gamertag system. Plus Wii's Point currency was stolen off of 360's MS Point currency. Thus proving that Nintendo can Inovate game play....while still using someone else's idea. Nintendo is re-treading old ground. NOT COOL NINTENDO!
 
mkbullet4you said:
If you want my opinion....You asked for it! Wii SUCKS! (Graphics Wise)Nintendo DOWN-graded the graphics since Gamecube. So to hide it Nintendo made the Wii have better textures. So that it could hide the poor Geometry, and very poor polygons. The Wii has somewhat erratic controls, and I admit sometimes clever gameplay. But do not be mistaken 360 Arcade is a better deal and is much cheaper! Plus Wii's friend code system is harder to find friends than Microsoft's Gamertag system. Plus Wii's Point currency was stolen off of 360's MS Point currency. Thus proving that Nintendo can Inovate game play....while still using someone else's idea. Nintendo is re-treading old ground. NOT COOL NINTENDO!

The Wii DID NOT copy the 360,since 360 has a way different kind of currency going on.(Confusing too!)

Also they didn't downgrade since the gamecube....
The gamecube was superior to the PS2 with power/graphics.
Its just not a lot of effort/games was put onto the gamecube. :(
 
The Wii is at least 50% more power than the GameCube is, which puts it lightyears ahead of both it and the Xbox.

Oh, and to mkbullet4you and other ignorant people: GRAPHICS DO NOT MAKE A GAME! What's the point of playing a game if you can only SEE the game, but can't interact with it because it's so buggy? Might as well call it a movie. The reason games like Super Mario Galaxy, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess and Super Smash Bros. Brawl are selling so well is because they have excellent gameplay, not just the graphics being good. And also, do I see any motion sensing or infrared pointing on the Xbox 360? Nope. Do I see free online gameplay on the Xbox 360? Nope. IMO the PS3 stole motion control off of the Wii, as they pretty much announced it almost immediately after Nintendo announced motion control on the Wii.

Anyways, get your facts straight before you make a point.
 
Callum said:
The Wii is at least 50% more power than the GameCube is, which puts it lightyears ahead of both it and the Xbox.

Oh, and to mkbullet4you and other ignorant people: GRAPHICS DO NOT MAKE A GAME! What's the point of playing a game if you can only SEE the game, but can't interact with it because it's so buggy? Might as well call it a movie. The reason games like Super Mario Galaxy, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess and Super Smash Bros. Brawl are selling so well is because they have excellent gameplay, not just the graphics being good. And also, do I see any motion sensing or infrared pointing on the Xbox 360? Nope. Do I see free online gameplay on the Xbox 360? Nope. IMO the PS3 stole motion control off of the Wii, as they pretty much announced it almost immediately after Nintendo announced motion control on the Wii.

Anyways, get your facts straight before you make a point.

Damn. You beat me to a rant about that. I wholeheartedly agree.
 
Fyrus said:
Callum said:
The Wii is at least 50% more power than the GameCube is, which puts it lightyears ahead of both it and the Xbox.

Oh, and to mkbullet4you and other ignorant people: GRAPHICS DO NOT MAKE A GAME! What's the point of playing a game if you can only SEE the game, but can't interact with it because it's so buggy? Might as well call it a movie. The reason games like Super Mario Galaxy, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess and Super Smash Bros. Brawl are selling so well is because they have excellent gameplay, not just the graphics being good. And also, do I see any motion sensing or infrared pointing on the Xbox 360? Nope. Do I see free online gameplay on the Xbox 360? Nope. IMO the PS3 stole motion control off of the Wii, as they pretty much announced it almost immediately after Nintendo announced motion control on the Wii.

Anyways, get your facts straight before you make a point.

Damn. You beat me to a rant about that. I wholeheartedly agree.

Me three.
But graphics do help making a great game.
What if the game is awesome,but your face,clothes look like a kid drew it?
Critics will then give it low scores.I'm not saying it doesn't make it enjoyable..
 
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