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Old 05-10-2015   #4801
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Originally Posted by choalover View Post
I love this idea, because it would allow me to do cool things to the netcode with Lua.
This only lets you override Lua-accessible variables, not rewrite the game. Read the post again.
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Old 05-10-2015   #4802
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And before anyone else gets ideas about what you could do with that, we're not implementing it because unfortunately, code doesn't work in the way she seemed to be assuming it did. In order to "lock" a value in place using Lua, the code would have to be rewritten to call the interpreter for every single attempt to set every single Lua-accessible value in the game. You know how Lua used to lag large maps even with empty scripts because it was calling something like 2-3 hooks per object per frame, potentially? Now increase that value to hundreds, if not thousands, and we're looking at something even your fancy gaming PCs would struggle to run at any framerate at all.
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Old 05-19-2015   #4803
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In Sonic 3 & Knuckles, when Knuckles stops in mid glide and falls to the ground, he loses all horizontal movement and crouches for a split second. In SRB2, Knuckles can accelerate after falling out of a glide and regain speed. Maybe we could add this feature sometime?
Spoiler: S3&K gif
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Old 05-19-2015   #4804
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My suggestions under the topic of "Screen Distortion" effects:

Animated Screen Distortion:
The canvas is a 960*600 image, with only the middle 320*200 region being rendered on-screen and visible to the player. Each pixel in the canvas is assigned to a different color, every color in the whole canvas is unique, no pixel has the same color, etc. If you change the placement of one pixel in the canvas, that pixel's place changes ingame.

Brightmap:
The canvas is a 320*200 image. Any black pixels on the image would make the designated ingame pixel be 100% dark, any grey pixels (50% white, 50% black) would make the designated pixel 50% darker, etc.

Overlay:
Jus what it says on the tin. Using a 320*200 image to be an overlay, and to be used with a TransMap.

TransMap:
A 320*200 image. The darker the pixel, the more saturated the respective ingame pixel will be. The lighter, the more transparent.

I have a feeling the descriptions are unclear, so I will upload images later if I have time.
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Old 05-19-2015   #4805
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Originally Posted by Zubat View Post
In Sonic 3 & Knuckles, when Knuckles stops in mid glide and falls to the ground, he loses all horizontal movement and crouches for a split second. In SRB2, Knuckles can accelerate after falling out of a glide and regain speed. Maybe we could add this feature sometime?
I actually bought the mobile version of Sonic 2 rather recently, and I completely forgot this was a thing until I tried playing as Knuckles. I understand the point of emulating the classics as much as possible, but from my experience the drop in horizontal speed plus the laggy crouch ending only served to make Knuckles feel very heavy and overall killed some of the flow you normally get playing a Sonic game. I was actually relived when I returned to SRB2 because the sluggishness of performing a glide was completely absent and made the ability much less punishing to use.

Also another thing absent is Knuckles' climbing up animation once he reaches the floor above him. This also sits in the same region where it only inhibits the player compared to what is already implemented in SRB2; returning back into a curl and allowing the player to glide again using the upward momentum gained from climbing back up.

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Old 05-19-2015   #4806
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the real reason it isn't in the game is because it would require extra sprites
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Old 05-19-2015   #4807
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Originally Posted by Jasper the Fox View Post
...the drop in horizontal speed plus the laggy crouch ending only served to make Knuckles feel very heavy... Also, another thing absent is Knuckles' climbing up animation once he reaches the floor above him... returning back into a curl and allowing the player to glide again using the upward momentum.
True. But there's always the spindash to get you back up to speed. Sure, SRB2's spindash method is different from the classics (holding a spin button vs mashing the jump button while crouching), but you still get that speed in about the same amount of time.

...albiet in a less satisfying way. Mashing a button is more fun to me rather than holding it, but I digress.

Anyway, Knuckles can be nearly as fast as Sonic, but maybe we should take into account that he's a powerhouse and needs to stick his landings ingame. Like the classics do. We added in skidding, the little slide Knuckles does when he lands from a glide, all that jazz. I think it's worth it to add these things to the game, even if it does require 32 more frames for Knuckles and other characters that climb. Not to shoot you down, like you have avalid point and everything that an addition like this would break Knuckles' flow of gameplay. But it emulates the classics the best.

Last edited by YevaEA; 05-19-2015 at 06:38 PM. Reason: Makin' things prettier! :D
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Old 05-19-2015   #4808
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The point of SRB2 isn't to 100% emulate the classics, or we'd already have slopes and loops and things like that. The point is to cherry-pick the best parts, and translate them into 3D as best as possible. Knuckles being forced to stop moving after a glide? Not one of Sonic Team's finest ideas.
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Old 05-19-2015   #4809
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I'd just like to point out that Knuckles dropping to a dead stop after landing from a glide would be a crippling nerf in Match and CTF. He would pretty much instantly become the worst character.
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Old 05-20-2015   #4810
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The issue is that you get punished for letting Knuckles actually finish his glide. You can let go of the jump button a split second before landing and be able to keep your momentum, but if you're just a tiny bit late you get dragged to a dead stop by the ground slide.

I agree that stopping Knuckles's momentum when you let go of glide is a bad idea. Instead, I think that the ground slide should be adjusted. The ground slide was a good idea on paper since it makes Knuckles's landing way less awkward, but coming to a complete halt because of it is needless and flow-breaking.

Last edited by Katmint; 05-20-2015 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 05-20-2015   #4811
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What if we just let Knuckles jump out of a slide? Fully, as though it were a normal jump.
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Old 05-20-2015   #4812
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Originally Posted by RedEnchilada View Post
What if we just let Knuckles jump out of a slide? Fully, as though it were a normal jump.
Well it all depends if the game registers Knuckles as "On the ground" and not in the air. While yes it looks like he is on the ground, Im not sure exactly how this game reads if a character in the air or not. Otherwise though I like that idea. Doesn't look too akward, allows for a better way to conserve momentum, and it is efficient in terms of what has to be written. But that does beg the question of how you're gonna go about programming this, since you can't really go by frames and sprites, because I'm pretty sure you use the glide sprites and frames during a slide.
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Old 05-20-2015   #4813
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Don't backseat code. There is literally a function that checks whether a mobj is on the ground or not, and it doesn't care tuppence for frame.
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Old 05-20-2015   #4814
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I was also skeptical of the slide when that was added, to be honest. I think the player should be able to override it - maybe even just by holding forward. Dropping glide prematurely to avoid slide is a silly meta.

It's not as crippling as adding the drop would be, though, since that guarantees becoming a target, and even without the sliding it would remove some aerial mobility since you can't just drop out of glide to avoid shots, which as spidy knux demonstrated is pretty powerful in match.
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Old 05-20-2015   #4815
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Originally Posted by MudkipYeah! View Post
Well it all depends if the game registers Knuckles as "On the ground" and not in the air. While yes it looks like he is on the ground, Im not sure exactly how this game reads if a character in the air or not. Otherwise though I like that idea. Doesn't look too akward, allows for a better way to conserve momentum, and it is efficient in terms of what has to be written. But that does beg the question of how you're gonna go about programming this, since you can't really go by frames and sprites, because I'm pretty sure you use the glide sprites and frames during a slide.
Pretty sure the reason you enter a slide to begin with is because the game knows you're not in the air.

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Knuckles being forced to stop moving after a glide? Not one of Sonic Team's finest ideas.
Completely disagree. Knuckles in Sonic 3 felt like an extremely different character because of this, it changed his gameplay flow completely. Levels were designed around how he moved, and his get-up/landing animation could be canceled entirely with a spindash. Having him not lose any momentum from a glide would have been really awkward to play with in that game.


Can't say the same for srb2, and its a shame that any SP change ruins match, but oh well
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Old 05-20-2015   #4816
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Originally Posted by MudkipYeah! View Post
But that does beg the question of how you're gonna go about programming this
Bitch please. I added slopes to the software renderer. Do you really think an on-ground check is going to thwart me?

Not to mention toaster's right
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Old 05-20-2015   #4817
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Originally Posted by Zubat View Post
Sure, SRB2's spindash method is different from the classics (holding a spin button vs mashing the jump button while crouching), but you still get that speed in about the same amount of time.
Not particularily. I can rev up a spindash very quickly and gain an immense amount of speed if I mash the jump button quicker while charging one up in the classics. In SRB2, it usually takes awhile to reach ludicrous speeds with the spindash since all you can do is hold the button, and the fact you have to go to a standstill and wait roughly three seconds to reach that speed is easily the most prominent reason why a character like Sonic would never need to use it. Even Tails and Knuckles struggle to use it in Match, which is important because it is their only source of speed outside of Super Sneaks. Which is also why I am secretly hinting at a 'please buff spindashing' suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Zubat View Post
but maybe we should take into account that he's a powerhouse and needs to stick his landings ingame.
what does that mean

I can stick landings very easily as Knuckles in SRB2 without the added lag found in the classics. In fact, it's easier to land in SRB2 and not get punished for it since the removal of the crouching animation allows you to react to ring fire/badniks more effectively (unless you spindash from a landing in the classics; didn't know you could do that). If you're talking visually, I guess I understand that. At the same time, we're still missing Tails swimming sprites so I wouldn't really expect too much.

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Old 05-20-2015   #4818
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(are we seriously doing all of this for knakles' glide)

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Originally Posted by RedEnchilada View Post
What if we just let Knuckles jump out of a slide? Fully, as though it were a normal jump.
Looks like the best idea if you do really plan to make Knuckles lose all his momentum after a glide. I still disagree about implenting it, Knuckles is already too much disadvantaged compared to Tails and Sonic, because of his jump height and the fact that he's painfully slow on climbing walls, making it an easy target, and making glide&climb a perfectly useless ability in gametypes other than Hide and Seek (and maybe Tag.) And no one ever play those! ...Okay maybe few servers running Tag on.

Anyway, another thing I saw...
Mashing the jump button to Spindash would actually make the player unable to cancel it by jumping (Which is the only way to do it in SRB2) and would also require crouching frames (2 if we want an accruate animation)
Would allow to charge the spindash faster tough.
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Old 05-20-2015   #4819
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Originally Posted by Jasper the Fox View Post
what does that mean
I meant that I think Knuckles should feel heavier since he's considered a strong character. I see everybody's point now. It really would change things a lot and not in the best of ways (especially considering match). On the other hand, being able to jump out of a slide sounds great.
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Mashing the jump button to Spindash would actually make the player unable to cancel it by jumping
Then maybe you could press spin again while moving to go into a spindash. Hold spin to crouch, mash jump to charge the spindash, and let go of spin to zoom off. Then while moving, press spin again to go back into running frames (I think I may have suggested this before, but it might not have been on this thread). EDIT: Found it!

Last edited by YevaEA; 05-20-2015 at 06:01 PM. Reason: Added a response to "Lat".
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Old 05-21-2015   #4820
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Originally Posted by "Lat'" View Post
Mashing the jump button to Spindash would actually make the player unable to cancel it by jumping (Which is the only way to do it in SRB2) and would also require crouching frames (2 if we want an accruate animation)
Perhaps if the jump button wasn't mashed after intiating a spindash, the spindash itself would slow down (like it normally does in the classics) and will eventually bring the player back to crouching sprites once it gets too slow? I guess the main problem would be that it's not an instantaneous stop, but you could always try to release the spindash earlier for a much slower speed that would be easier to recover from by using abilities.

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I meant that I think Knuckles should feel heavier since he's considered a strong character. I see everybody's point now.
I still think there's merit to making a character more unique in how they handle and play based on their physique and whatnot, but there has to be some sort of happy medium between what would be considered effective gameplay wise as well. If there was some way to make Knuckles feel heavier and bulky without having it cripple him in every competitive gametype in the game I'd be all for that. ;-;
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