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Old 10-01-2016   #1
Rapidgame7
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Default 2D CTF map!?

2D CTF map.

2D seems like a pretty neat thing for a CTF stage, as we have a lot of 3D CTF stages, but


So I aim to make a 2D Match/CTF stage of relatively regular quality.

Presenting: This!
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This stage is played in 2D mode.
Not the "TypeOfLevel = 2D" thing, as it breaks spectator mode.

The stage is comprised with 5 layers of 2D paths, connected by springs and a Lua script that prevents players from missing the intended target.
Depending on the spring and the orientation, it can send you to another layer in the background or foreground.
Yellow springs will always shift the player by 1 layer, while diagonal red springs aiming diagonally will shift 2 and diagonal red springs aiming directly to the foreground/background will shift 3.
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While being sprung to another layer, the player cannot move, but can try to shoot down a player that is in the destination.

Since the stage is in 2D mode, you cannot attack players in different layers than yours.

And, to give players an opportunity to not fall in a pit and return back to the floor, some lasers have been placed so if you were to accidentally fall on a pit by falling of the side of a platform, you're given an extra opportunity. Unless you're invincible.


And that's pretty much it!
I'm planning on adding more platforms, removing a lot of pits, moving stuff around, changing the textures and placing some extra decoration around, but I'm not sure on what would be nice to add, and where.
I can't call it complete because I still need to place weapon rings, emerald spawns and deathmatch spawns, and of course platforms and decoration.

In the meanwhile I thought I could showcase what I'm doing, so I hope you like it!
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Last edited by Rapidgame7; 10-01-2016 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 10-01-2016   #2
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This idea is pretty neat. The only thing I would think of that would hinder the gametype is that shooting would be extremely difficult, and players who've got the flag could avoid being shot by quickly jumping from layer to layer. Other than that, keep up the good work! I'm sure you'll find a solution to those problems.
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Old 10-03-2016   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidgame7 View Post
So I aim to make a 2D Match/CTF stage of relatively regular quality.
It's not that the previous attempts were badly designed maps. The problem is that our match/ctf gameplay does not operate in a reasonable manner in 2D. The projectiles you fire in match move very fast and there's no way to see the players you're firing at off-screen, so it basically turns into firing blind shots with the hopes that someone is in your line of fire. There's basically no situation where you can actually fire at someone you can see. Our powerups actively make this even worse. The elemental shield in particular is hilariously overpowered in a 2D stage where you can't sidestep out of it.

While the concept of 2D CTF is neat, you'd have to completely tear out our match mode mechanics and do something else to stop players with the flag, because those mechanics just don't work at all in 2D.
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Old 10-03-2016   #4
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Neat concept, However you're going to make few changes to the gameplay, I heard the current SRB2 version does not allow creating custom weapon rings so i don't think you can create slower thrown rings that you cannot aim up / down with, and that is the main problem, in 2D it would be awkward to aim up / down .

2nd Problem is flying characters like Tails, you cannot aim at them, So you might have to completely disallow flying or at least change it to something else .
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Old 10-04-2016   #5
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You can do a lot of things to circumvent this, Romio. You could cap the ring's speed through Lua, and use a camera modification to tilt the camera so it faces a little ahead for the player while they move.

Secondly, is the fact of trying to avoid objects. The players jump much to lightly for effective object dodging in 2D, so I was thinking one could increase the gravity and the player's jump height.
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Old 10-04-2016   #6
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The post was a giant wall of text, so I put it between spoiler tags.
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
there's no way to see the players you're firing at off-screen, so it basically turns into firing blind shots with the hopes that someone is in your line of fire. There's basically no situation where you can actually fire at someone you can see.
I tried to do something with the camera, but the camera that follows the player is read-only and the only thing I could find that is close to "Change the camera position" was the Linedef executor 422, but that makes the camera static.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
Our powerups actively make this even worse. The elemental shield in particular is hilariously overpowered in a 2D stage where you can't sidestep out of it.
Yeah, I found that out while testing the map with some players.
Maybe I could try making the elemental shield monitor switch to something else when it spawns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
you'd have to completely tear out our match mode mechanics and do something else to stop players with the flag, because those mechanics just don't work at all in 2D
I don't know how I would be able to do that since I actually wanted to make use of the 2D mode in a Match/CTF environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
The projectiles you fire in match move very fast
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomioTheBadass View Post
i don't think you can create slower thrown rings that you cannot aim up / down with
I actually can. It's just matter of changing the ring momentum and make it never travel up or down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomioTheBadass View Post
2nd Problem is flying characters like Tails, you cannot aim at them, So you might have to completely disallow flying or at least change it to something else .
Maybe if I don't actually disable aiming, and I add more platforms so Tails doesn't get much of a chance to fly away?

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Originally Posted by Blaze The Cat View Post
and use a camera modification to tilt the camera so it faces a little ahead for the player while they move
The camera stuff is read only, unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze The Cat View Post
The players jump much to lightly for effective object dodging in 2D, so I was thinking one could increase the gravity and the player's jump height.
I haven't found anything that would let me change the gravity for an object.
As far as I've researched, the most I can do is make a little hack where the player's momentum goes down faster.


I could do something like what PhysAttk.lua does, where you can hit other players by merely jumping/spindashing into them.
That would eliminate the need of weapon rings and aiming, but that would imply that I also reduce the speed of characters and the spindashing speed so it is easier to hit other people.
It could compensate the fact that the 2D camera is near the player.
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Last edited by Rapidgame7; 10-04-2016 at 06:26 PM. Reason: what
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Old 10-04-2016   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidgame7 View Post
I haven't found anything that would let me change the gravity for an object.
As far as I've researched, the most I can do is make a little hack where the player's momentum goes down faster.


Then we can just add our own gravity.

Code:
addHook("ThinkFrame", do
    for play in players.iterate
        if play.valid
            play.jumpfactor = 2*FRACUNIT
            if play.mo.valid
                if play.mo.z > play.mo.floorz
                    if play.mo.eflags & MFE_UNDERWATER
                        P_SetObjectMomZ(play.mo, -(gravity/2), true)
                    else
                        P_SetObjectMomZ(play.mo, -gravity, true)
                    end
                end
            end
        end
    end
end)
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Old 10-07-2016   #8
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I'm sorry to say this but someone's been already trying to do this.

Sonic Smash Brawl has the exact same concept of making 2D Match and CTF levels but features more requirement of items and super forms and the ability to hurt people with spinning.
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Old 10-08-2016   #9
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I tought making CTF in 2D would be a bad idea, but I saw the gifs and I said "WOAH", I would download that.
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Old 10-08-2016   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonic ze Hedgefox View Post
I'm sorry to say this but someone's been already trying to do this.

Sonic Smash Brawl has the exact same concept of making 2D Match and CTF levels but features more requirement of items and super forms and the ability to hurt people with spinning.
What Rapid is trying to do is nothing like what Sonic Smash Brawl attempts to pull of with 2D CTF, as that mod is based more on physical combat, while this has multiple layers of the stage you can travel into, pretty unique if you ask me. Don't try to shoot this down, it has so much potential.
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Old 10-08-2016   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow View Post
What Rapid is trying to do is nothing like what Sonic Smash Brawl attempts to pull of with 2D CTF, as that mod is based more on physical combat, while this has multiple layers of the stage you can travel into, pretty unique if you ask me. Don't try to this down, it has so much potential.
I agree with snow. This is nothing like SSB. Plus when did SSB have multiple layers?

Great work rapid. Like mystic said, it'll hard to make a 2D Ctf map but it can work.
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Old 10-08-2016   #12
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TBH, I like this idea, not only does it introduce a new gimmick in a CTF map for the first time, it's 2D as well! Plus, SSB never did something like this. Keep up the awesome work, Rapid! We're all eager for this!
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Old 10-08-2016   #13
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Hmm, one thing that I'm not sure what to make of at the moment is the multiple 2D layers.
It doesn't seem fair that players who are in the foreground layers have a decent view of things in the background, including other players moving around, whereas that isn't the case with players in the background.
Maybe some aspect of level design could compensate for that? I dunno, but even still, what's to stop a player from waiting for someone in the background to enter the same layer as them and then intercepting their landing?
Even with high enough walls, there'll always have to be an "opening" where players are launched into the foreground, and because of that, foreground players "may" get the opportunity to exploit this, provided the player from the background hit a spring that corresponds to the one of the foreground player, but yeah. Not as bad as I originally thought, since it seems like it might be situational.





That said, the concept seems interesting and I look forward to seeing where this goes. =3
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Last edited by Mr Chezz; 10-08-2016 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 10-09-2016   #14
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Hey guys!
Sorry for dissapearing, but I had some trouble and work these days and excuses.

I did some stuff based on the suggestions you all made:
(I actually have this written in my code)


- Red rings cannot travel in the Y or Z axes
- Red rings are slower

Exactly! Now, rings can either be shot left or right.
And they are slower so there are now more chances to avoid them!

- Increased gravity

Exactly.
In SRB2, the gravity is set to 1, or [FRACUNIT/2].
Every tic, an object in air affected by gravity will have their Z momentum modified by -FRACUNIT/2. If their momentum is 0, the gravity is doubled for that tic.
Well, in the map, all players have MF_NOGRAVITY and their momentum is set by [artificialGravity]. Now players touch the floor faster!
Gravity is set to normal for a player that is flying to another layer.

- Player invincibility during travel
- Player invinciblity on layer landing


While flying to another layer, players will be invincible. Once the player reaches the destination layer, he will be flashing for an extra second.
This should help a bit on avoiding getting hit by "campers", but this could be exploited.

- Ring clashing

Because dodging is overrated.


I still have to find a way to make the elemental shield not that powerful, compensate the camera being too close to the player, make players a tad bit more slower and increase the jump height a bit (because gravity), but so far I have this.
I thought I could stop by and say that "I'm not dead" in the form of progress!
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Old 10-09-2016   #15
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Hah. I love the ring clashing effect.
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Old 10-09-2016   #16
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We should totally have ring clashing in Vanilla.

If you want to rework the camera, look up the 2014 OLDC level I made called "Cloud Convoy". It does a lot of complicated stuff with the camera, but if you cut through the control-changing stuff you can totally see how it would be used to "zoom out".
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Old 10-09-2016   #17
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This is awesome!

How would this work in 1st person or better to ask, will it work in 1st person? Beacause all i see is 3rd person action
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Old 10-09-2016   #18
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Think of match/ctf on a 2D plane.



It's fucking horrifying.
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Old 10-09-2016   #19
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Personally I think 1st person camera in 2D mode is awful and should probably be killed =V

If you want an actual explanation though, in standard SRB2 at least it controls just like 3rd person view except the controls of turn left/right are swapped with forward/backwards ....so forward/backwards now go right and left along the map respectively, and turn left makes you roll into a spin if you're walking.
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Old 10-09-2016   #20
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Looks like things are shaping up nicely. Good stuff!
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