FOF trouble

Guess what guys? I learned how to wad! That is, that I've learned the basics. But I don't understand FOF's at all. I was following A441's guide. It took me an hour before I actually got past the FOF part. I somehow managed to make the box. But later on, I realized that I was just following his directions, and therefore learned nothing. (I can't follow a guide my entire life, can I?) He said that FOF's could be stacked on top of each other, but I have no idea how. I tried making another box and dragging it on top of the first one, but when I tried the level, the whole area was blocked by one huge box, and an invisible barrier prevented me from entering the original box. Right now, the only thing that really bothers me is that I can't figure out how to make blocks float in the air! I messed around with FOF's for a while, then I gave up and just made a sector that was higher than the ground. Obviously, that didn't work. I couldn't walk under it because of the invisible barrier thing. How can you guys possibly make levels with this kind of program!? Is there any other program (besides DCK) that's better than WadAuthor?

Also, I can't figure out level headers. A441's level header guide says that lumpmod is a command line program, and that you have to copy it to the SRB2 directory. WHAT is the SRB2 directory? (SRB2win, that killeraclient thing, ect.) I tore up my computer looking for it. I put the lumpmod in that SRB2 code folder thing, hoping it would work. But the command line thing just says that it can't find the location of the program, or something lke that. I noticed that at the top of the SRB2 log, there was a command line thing written at the top, so I tried stuffing that in the thing. I think that might have worked, but it tells me that SRB2.src is not found. Which is a lie, because the file is clearly visible on my desktop. What am I doing wrong, what is the SRB2 directory, and could you tell me exactly what to type in the command line to get this to work?

This isn't as important, but how do you make custom textures, backgrounds and objects? What program do I have to use? Do I have to draw the textures by hand and scan them with a scanner, Or do I have to do all the drawing on the computer? Do I need photoshop or something to do it? And how do I get them into the game?

Ritz said:

He said that FOF's could be stacked on top of each other, but I have no idea how.

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Give the control linedefs for each FOF the same tag number.

I tried making another box and dragging it on top of the first one,

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Never do anything like that! Maps are 2D, not 3D. You cannot stack sectors. All you can do is trick the game into putting in extra stuff between the floor and the ceiling.

Right now, the only thing that really bothers me is that I can't figure out how to make blocks float in the air!

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You mean, you can't make FOFs?

I messed around with FOF's for a while, then I gave up and just made a sector that was higher than the ground. Obviously, that didn't work.

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Maybe it's obvious to you, but I have no idea what you're trying to say or how it's possible. The ground is the sector's floor. There is no other ground.

I couldn't walk under it because of the invisible barrier thing.

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Actually, there is no "invisible barrier thing." I would guess that you simply raised a sector's floor height (aka the ground height) without setting the proper textures.

There's a lot of stuff in the "basics" category you don't seem to understand. Before you try messing with FOFs, go back and get a firmer grip on how levels work without them. And if you skipped parts of the guide or failed to follow along with the examples, don't.

SRB2 maps are 2D. You get a top-down view of a map. You make shapes on the map. The shapes cannot overlap, because it's 2D, and 2D shapes overlapping doesn't make any sense. The only way maps are 3D AT ALL is that you set a floor height and ceiling height for each of the shapes. Understand and follow those principles before you try to learn how to violate them.

And don't even THINK about having anyone tell you how to make map headers, textures, custom objects, etc. when your understanding of the most basic concepts is so flagrantly incomplete.

So, all I have to do is make another FOF and give it the same tag number, and it will automatically go on top of the first?

And you don't have to be so rude, y'know.

No. You make a normal sector that has a new sector tag lets say 3. Then set the FOF tag to 3. The normal Sector should have the same height and other settings as the one surrounding it.

Ritz said:

So, all I have to do is make another FOF and give it the same tag number, and it will automatically go on top of the first?

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That's correct.

And you don't have to be so rude, y'know.

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I wasn't rude. You're the one who asked people to take time out of their busy lives to explain a bunch of stuff you aren't ready to learn yet. Keep in mind people exist for other reasons than to serve you personally. For future reference, calling someone rude who's trying to help you is not the best idea in the world, either.

akirahedgehog: Good of you to try and help! I think you misunderstand the problem, though. Ritz is trying to stack FOFs, i.e. have two FOFs, one over another, in the same sector.

Ritz said:

Also, I can't figure out level headers. A441's level header guide says that lumpmod is a command line program, and that you have to copy it to the SRB2 directory. WHAT is the SRB2 directory?

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The srb2 directory is wherever you extracted srb2 to whenever you downloaded it.. surely you know where this is? You have to double click on the program every time you play.. that is, unless, you put a shortcut on your desktop.

I'd try making a picture or something to help you out with this whole FOF thing, but I have school and.. yeah.. that's about it, skoll suk.

No on neds skoll i meen jez every1 nos how two spel!!

a441 said:

There's a lot of stuff in the "basics" category you don't seem to understand. Before you try messing with FOFs, go back and get a firmer grip on how levels work without them. And if you skipped parts of the guide or failed to follow along with the examples, don't.

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I've already went through the guide 3 times now, and I didn't skip anything. And when I said that I didn't understand how to make them float in the air, I meant that they weren't actually in the air, to a degree where I can actually walk under it from any angle. Y'see, I don't want a box with walls, I want a platform that can be walked under from any angle. And you knew that's what I meant. Remember, you don't have to use tech talk every time someone asks you a question. And I can understand how creating textures and such really isn't important, but the map header is. I can still make levels without FOFs right now. so if you could explain that to me, I'd be really grateful. And I really don't like how you're trying to make me look like something that i'm not. I'm not some selfish jerk who only thinks about himself. I understand that people don't always have time to help others. But I wasn't demanding for someone to help me. I simply hoped that someone would be kind enough to give me some advice when they had the time.

Oh, and yes Shaf, It's an icon on my desktop. Is that a problem? If it is, could I just put it in a folder, or do I have to redownload it?

I use a box with walls as an example to show how FOFs fit into larger constructions. The top of the box can be walked under.

But NOT from all directions. that is, no walls at all.

EDIT: sorry, I didn't understand what you meant the first time. ^_^()

Are you talking about walking -inside- of an FOF?
If you are, then you can't do that.. it's impossible to walk inside an FOF.. unless you use some weird kind..

If you're not talking about that then.. I dunno what you're talking about ^^;

from what I read I think hes talking about a hall way.

Maybe a cave.. in which case, you wouldn't need an FOF

How about this, give us an example in the game of what you want :P

You know what maybe I might need to know how to make a hall way because I'm going to make a level about my school.(Peabody middle)

Umm... Just make 3 sectors, attach them, and make the middle one have a higher ceiling.

Sorry, I just figured it out. Y'see, I wanted to know how to make an FOF float in the air. But then I realized what A441 meant: that's just what an FOF does, it floats in the air. But I thought that the FOF was only for making 3d blocks, and that once you turn it on, it becomes part of the block. Well, I decided to fool around with the other FOF types. The first I tried was the laser. But when I tried the level, I noticed that only the ceiling was a laser. Then it hit me: the reason for that is because the FOF isn't the whole block, It's just the top of it! so I made a new FOF without the block thing, and tada! It was floating in the air, just as I wanted it to. It was so simple! I'm surprized I didn't realize it before. Now I know that when you stack the FOFs, your not stacking boxes, like I thought. That guide was horribly misleading. Thanks for the help, anyway.

Now all I need to know is how to get the level header to work. As I was saying before, The program is just an icon on my desktop. Is there any other way to do this without having to redownload it?

A "directory" is an old-fashioned name for a "folder." Is there something else you didn't understand about the headers?

I agree that the FOF part of the level guide blows chun... I mean, needs improvement. The example is unnecessarily complicated. However, the explanation at the beginning, with the two diagrams, seems pretty straightforward to me. Can you tell me what misled you about that?

Well, you kept calling it a 3d block. Not that that's a confusing term or anything, it's just that when you told us to make the box thing first, I thought that you had to make the box EVERY time you make an FOF, so I began to confuse the term 3d block with 3d box. I know it's hard to understand what i'm saying, but that's the only way I can explain it. No wonder I couldn't stack the box part. And also, I was stacking them the wrong way. (I thought you actually had to make another sector somewhere, and then give that sector the same tag number) If you want to make that part of the guide easier to understand, try explaning how to make an FOF first, and THEN show how it fits into larger constructions.

Also, there are a couple things I don't understand about the header. How do I copy the lumpmod.exe into the folder? Can I just put it in the same folder as SRB2, or do I have to make a copy of it? And what is the lumpmod.exe anyway? is it the thing that says lumpmod, the one with the blue and white window for an icon? And when I switch to the SRB2 directory (if that's what I did), I don't get an error message like I usually do. (It tells me it can't find the specified path) Instead, another command line pops up. only instead of saying something new, it says exactly what it says in the beginning. (the default directory, documents and settings) The same thing happens when I press the enter button without typing anything, so I know I didn't do the right thing. Does the command line give you some sort of notification that the directory was correctly switched? And is there any better way to do this?

Ritz said:

How do I copy the lumpmod.exe into the folder?

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Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V if you're on Windows.

Ritz said:

Can I just put it in the same folder as SRB2, or do I have to make a copy of it?

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Copy.

Ritz said:

And what is the lumpmod.exe anyway?

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It's a WAD tool that adds lumps (id est: files) to the WAD as you see fit. Other things, like XWE or Wintex or even DeePSea can doo the same kind of thing, too.

Ritz said:

is it the thing that says lumpmod, the one with the blue and white window for an icon?

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You mean the Windows console? No, that just comes up if you try to run a DOS program in Windows. You can bring it up seperately with "cmd" in the Run box, or if you've downloaded the PowerToy, right-clicking the folder and saying "Open Command Window Here". (You can find that 'un at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx.

Ritz said:

And when I switch to the SRB2 directory (if that's what I did), I don't get an error message like I usually do. (It tells me it can't find the specified path) Instead, another command line pops up. only instead of saying something new, it says exactly what it says in the beginning. (the default directory, documents and settings) The same thing happens when I press the enter button without typing anything, so I know I didn't do the right thing. Does the command line give you some sort of notification that the directory was correctly switched?

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Not particularly. It'll just pop up with the new directory, waiting for you to input the next command. And just to ensure you're doing the right thing, directory changing is "cd [directory]".

Ritz said:

And is there any better way to do this?

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As mentioned, XWE, Wintex and DeePSea all work really well for those who can't stand command lines.

Ritz said:

This isn't as important, but how do you make custom textures, backgrounds and objects?

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By inputing them into the WAD and adding them to the lump files TEXTURE1 and PNAMES.

Ritz said:

What program do I have to use?

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Maybe lumpmod can do this, but I strongly suggest XWE or Wintex for this instead.

Do I have to draw the textures by hand and scan them with a scanner, Or do I have to do all the drawing on the computer?

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Both work, but the latter will likely give you better results as it'll tile better.

Ritz said:

Do I need photoshop or something to do it?

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Most likely, unless it's a pre-made texture (but even then, you need to apply the DOOM palette).

Ritz said:

And how do I get them into the game?

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See above.

Shadow Hog is mostly right, but:

Ritz said:

Can I just put it in the same folder as SRB2, or do I have to make a copy of it?

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Either way, doesn't matter. Although I suggest you keep lumpmod.html nearby because it has help with commands, which will come in handy if you try to do something more sophisticated than insert headers.

And what is the lumpmod.exe anyway? is it the thing that says lumpmod, the one with the blue and white window for an icon?

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From the sound of it, yes. You should enable showing extensions in Windows Explorer. In XP, go to Tools, Folder Options, View tab, and uncheck "Hide extensions for known file types." Things make a lot more sense that way.

And when I switch to the SRB2 directory...it says exactly what it says in the beginning.

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What exact command are you typing?

And is there any better way to do this?

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You're smart enough to figure it out. :)

Command line programs make a lot more sense than GUIs once you get used to them. The old way was to insert map headers with DeePsea, and it took forever because you had to wait for the bloated piece of crap to load, listen to the first few seconds of some choice Doom music, and go through a billion dialogs. My dissatisfaction with that process was what drove me to write LumpMod.

If I recall, you can't do it with WinTex. It thinks MAP01D is a map name or some stupidity like that.

Thanks for the suggestions re: FOF tutorial, I'll work them into the next version.

a441 said:

What exact command are you typing?

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Can't quite remember... something along the lines of C: "CD/Program Files/SRB2". I kept alternating between typing SRB2 and Sonic Robo Bast 2, because I can't figure out which one is the right one. Tell me, why isn't there some sort of program in SRB2 that lets you customize your level the same way that the objectplace does? There would be no level headers to worry about. You could just save it when your done, and you wouldn't have to go through all this command line nonsense. Anyway, could you just tell me what you usually type in the command line? I'll probaby get it right that way.