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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #1
Solid SOAP
 
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Default Features from modern games that you would feel welcome in SRB2

First and foremost, I am aware that SRB2 is and always has been a direct homage to the 2D games. Everything from the level design philosophy to the game's aesthetic screams "Classic Sonic." However, with it being a 3D game, I do believe that there are things that the game can learn from the other 3D titles. I'll start with one idea I think will be easy to parse:



The goal posts in SRB2 are too small; period. It has never deeply affected the game's playability, but I think that this feature would be improved by having a wider radius ala Sonic Adventure and subsequent games. The addition of these goal posts would not feel intrusive or out of place, and would merely improve this aspect of the game, even slightly.

What do you guys think?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #2
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y'see i think that's a good idea in theory but in practice it's not bad, it's just completely pointless.
how checkpoints work in srb2 is that there are areas of ground (sectors) that you can assign a tag to in zone builder/ultimate doom builder. if you assign the right linedef executor to the sector, you can call a checkpoint to be activated whenever you're standing on that sector.

again, not that your idea is bad, i quite like it, but it's completely pointless when you look at the innerworkings of srb2 and checkpoints themselves.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #3
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Originally Posted by SilverVortex View Post
y'see i think that's a good idea in theory but in practice it's not bad, it's just completely pointless.
how checkpoints work in srb2 is that there are areas of ground (sectors) that you can assign a tag to in zone builder/ultimate doom builder. if you assign the right linedef executor to the sector, you can call a checkpoint to be activated whenever you're standing on that sector.

again, not that your idea is bad, i quite like it, but it's completely pointless when you look at the innerworkings of srb2 and checkpoints themselves.
With knowledge of the ins and outs of the game yes it serves no function, but the visual of the checkpoint is just as important as the function itself. New players aren't going to automatically know where every area is that will activate the checkpoint, so by changing the visual it will make it much easier to cover more ground and activate for new players.

Let me provide an example:

In Mario Galaxy 1, there were no checkpoint flags or any visual indicator of saving progress mid-level. Galaxy 2, however, introduced checkpkint flags as a visual indicator of saving progress. It didn't serve any functional purpose, but the visual indicator allowed you to have a greater idea of where you will reappear when you die.

Adding a wider area of activation for checkpoints, or at least their visuals, would be a positive function in my book.

Last edited by Solid SOAP; 3 Weeks Ago at 04:49 PM.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #4
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Although I was disappointed when I first played SRB2 (a few days before 2.2 came out) and saw that the checkpoints weren't designed like they are in the modern Sonic games, I can accept the checkpoint design as it stands because checkpoints tend to be put in places that are hard to miss, often right at the start of path splits. Arguably the placement of checkpoints is more important than how much space they take up.

As for a feature from the modern Sonic games other than checkpoints, I'm really not sure what would be a good idea to have in the game. Homing attack and boost, probably the two most iconic features, both have variants included in SRB2, with the attraction shield and Metal Sonic's boost mode (which can plow through enemies and run on water just like the modern games' boost) respectively.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #5
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A pipe dream feature for me would be Chao Gardens. Not sure how they would be implemented and be used in the grand scheme of things with other players but it would be a nice novelty to have. I haven't gone super in depth with Chao Gardens in Adventure and Adventure 2 but seeing it come to life in SRB2 would be an accolade within itself.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #6
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As was mentioned previously, it's trivially easy to have the checkpoints auto-activate by progressing past the area they're placed in. The fact that all current levels force you to actually touch the checkpoint to activate it is... strange.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #7
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A simple world map screen for Singleplayer, more like the one from Sonic Adventure 2 than the later games. I always found light worldbuilding like that a nice gesture.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #8
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None, it would be a huge mistake to implement a modern element into that classic game.


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Originally Posted by Unknownlight View Post
As was mentioned previously, it's trivially easy to have the checkpoints auto-activate by progressing past the area they're placed in. The fact that all current levels force you to actually touch the checkpoint to activate it is... strange.
Maybe to incite players into having more skill and not just zoom past the checkpoints.


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A simple world map screen for Single-player, more like the one from Sonic Adventure 2 than the later games. I always found light world-building like that a nice gesture.
Why? Not having a map is good to avoid consistency errors (like how Sega messed it up). World-building isn't really needed, it's just Mobius and that's all we need to know.



The current level select is also more straightforward and practical than SA2's.

Last edited by Icarus; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:06 PM.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #9
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Originally Posted by Larz T View Post
A pipe dream feature for me would be Chao Gardens. Not sure how they would be implemented and be used in the grand scheme of things with other players but it would be a nice novelty to have. I haven't gone super in depth with Chao Gardens in Adventure and Adventure 2 but seeing it come to life in SRB2 would be an accolade within itself.
Yessssss. I was going to post this. I know they were supposed to be limited to the Adventure games, but it would be cool to have Chao in SRB2. I know someone is working on it currently for an add-on, so we'll have to wait and see how that turns out. But I think having Chao would add a ton of replay value to the game. The Flickies would probably have to be updated to add more variety, and of course, they would have to be turned into collectibles.

Probably shouldn't tie any emblems to the Chao Garden, though. Or at least, don't include them in the count for completion bonuses, such as Pandora's Box. I've been in enough of these discussions to know that the people who don't like Chao wouldn't appreciate being forced to raise them to get emblems. Maybe they can have a different type of collectible, though, which would unlock new stuff for the Chao Garden, such as new egg colors to choose from.

Would also be neat if you could also take one of your Chao with you on adventures. But I realize at this point, I'm basically asking for a new game. lol

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Originally Posted by Soufon View Post
A simple world map screen for Singleplayer, more like the one from Sonic Adventure 2 than the later games. I always found light worldbuilding like that a nice gesture.
This would be cool. I've seen a fan made picture floating around that mapped out all of SRB2's levels (including the multiplayer ones). Having trouble finding it now, though.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #10
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I have no problem with monitors using their classic design, but I do think it would be beneficial for them to break on contact with a player similar to the more modern capsules, rather than needing to be jumped on.

The mentality that nothing from the more modern games should be implemented into SRB2 is very flawed. Such a mentality is basically just to limit SRB2 to what was already in Sonic 1 - 3&K, when SRB2 isn't one of these games. The way I see it, SRB2 is to be treated as a new game within the franchise. It is themed after the classic series, and generally should adhere to a design mentality inspired by it, but otherwise there's no issue with it learning a thing or two from the modern games. Such a distinction is nothing more than marketing on SEGA's part ever since Generations. All the way up until Colors, there wasn't a "Classic Sonic" and "Modern Sonic", there was just "Sonic".

On that note, something else I would also like to see is a full sound design overhaul for the game. Footstep sounds, the energy radiation sound that comes off Super Sonic, maybe even some custom recreations of some of the classic sounds such as jumping and breaking a badnik to give SRB2 a little bit more of it's own unique feel and identity to it, in addition to the original graphics and music it already has going on.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
None, it would be a huge mistake to implement a modern element into that classic game.



Maybe to incite players into having more skill and not just zoom past the checkpoints.




Why? Not having a map is good to avoid consistency errors (like how Sega messed it up). World-building isn't really needed, it's just Mobius and that's all we need to know.



The current level select is also more straightforward and practical than SA2's.
I really don't understand this whole mentality you have of absolutely hating modern Sonic games and claiming they objectively have zero redeeming qualities that SRB2 should stay as far away from as possible. As I said earlier in this thread, some elements from those games have had variants of them included in SRB2. For more examples, Amy's moveset is based on pretty much a combination of her moveset in Adventure 1 and Advance 1 (I haven't played the latter, that's just what I'm informed), and Fang's shooter system is not unlike the mech shooter levels in the Adventure games. Also, the emblem system in SRB2 was directly inspired by that from the Adventure games.

Most of the examples I brought up are from the Adventure games, which isn't too surprising because that's when 3D Sonic just started diverging from 2D Sonic.
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Last edited by cookiefonster; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:02 PM.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #12
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On a different note, recurling (debuted in SA1) would be an interesting feature to apply to SRB2 I feel.

During a conversation in the Official Discord, someone (I think it was Krabs?) talked about being able to use midair abilities regardless of your midair state, and while I'm not too sure how I feel about that yet it doesn't seem like it'd do much harm so I'll add that to my list too.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiefonster View Post
I really don't understand this whole mentality you have of absolutely hating modern Sonic games and claiming they objectively have zero redeeming qualities that SRB2 should stay as far away from as possible. As I said earlier in this thread, some elements from those games have had variants of them included in SRB2. For more examples, Amy's moveset is based on pretty much a combination of her moveset in Adventure 1 and Advance 1 (I haven't played the latter, that's just what I'm informed), and Fang's shooter system is not unlike the mech shooter levels in the Adventure games. Also, the emblem system in SRB2 was directly inspired by that from the Adventure games.

Most of the examples I brought up are from the Adventure games, which isn't too surprising because that's when 3D Sonic just started diverging from 2D Sonic.



Same I think Some Modern stuff in SRB2 would work if done right. I really don't get why a lot of people want Modern to stay completely away from Classic.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #14
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Same I think Some Modern stuff in SRB2 would work if done right. I really don't get why a lot of people want Modern to stay completely away from Classic.
Especially considering, as I mentioned in my previous post, all the way up through Sonic Colors there was no distinction. Each game was just a new game in the series. The Adventure games were made to be a follow up to the Genesis/Mega Drive games making use of the new technology they had available to them. They continued to try to innovate from there. It wasn't until Generations did the whole "Two Sonic's" thing that they marketed the classic games as a different thing from the modern games. It's strictly marketing, nothing more.

The reason why this is important is because the classic games are all 2D titles, but SRB2 is attempting to do something similar to Adventure; Translate that gameplay into 3D. As such, learning a few things from the 3D games as needed makes complete sense. Even newer 2D games such as the Advance and Rush series might have some things of value to translate into SRB2.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #15
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Especially considering, as I mentioned in my previous post, all the way up through Sonic Colors there was no distinction. Each game was just a new game in the series. The Adventure games were made to be a follow up to the Genesis/Mega Drive games making use of the new technology they had available to them. They continued to try to innovate from there. It wasn't until Generations did the whole "Two Sonic's" thing that they marketed the classic games as a different thing from the modern games. It's strictly marketing, nothing more.

The reason why this is important is because the classic games are all 2D titles, but SRB2 is attempting to do something similar to Adventure; Translate that gameplay into 3D. As such, learning a few things from the 3D games as needed makes complete sense. Even newer 2D games such as the Advance and Rush series might have some things of value to translate into SRB2.
The Advance games, as I said, did have some ideas make their way into SRB2. Specifically Amy hammering on springs to boost their power, and boost mode which I remember hearing was a thing in Advance 2.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #16
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There is already Modern aspects in SRB2. Like the Boost ability the Metal Sonic has or the Homing attack. I think SRB2 can really benefit if the mind set Classic and Modern are removed and just keep in mind that SRB2 is just like Sonic Adventure. The Adventure are was so good, because of the fact that they built upon the Genesis games. So I thinks that Modern Sonic can fit into SRB2.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #17
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is it cheating to say "a HUD that looks more presentable"
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Maybe to incite players into having more skill and not just zoom past the checkpoints.
Touching a checkpoint is supposed to be a reward for overcoming level challenges, not a challenge itself.

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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
None, it would be a huge mistake to implement a modern element into that classic game.
Remember when we talked about contributing to discussions you decide to pitch into? This does not accomplish that! SRB2 isn't meant to be a purist "Classic" game monolith: we've already let the milk mix into the coffee long ago. Take your brain for a walk for a bit, try to recall why you think that way, then let your imagination fly as well instead of sniping other people's balloons in a pipe dream thread.

That said, Chao Gardens, please
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #19
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
None, it would be a huge mistake to implement a modern element into that classic game.
I do not agree with this mindset. While no, the game shouldn't look and feel like a "modern" game (e.g. no cutscenes, no melodramatic story, character designs/level aesthetic should be based on the classics, etc.), I do believe that there are lessons to be learned from the early modern games, particularly Adventure 1 and 2.

Quote:
Maybe to incite players into having more skill and not just zoom past the checkpoints.
The game rewards skillful play more than probably any official 3D Sonic game in many ways, and that is one of the reasons I love the game. That being said, as Tatsuru said, checkpoints should be a reward for executing said skillful play. Having a wider radius to activate a checkpoint would only improve the rewarding nature of finding one.

Quote:
Why? Not having a map is good to avoid consistency errors (like how Sega messed it up). World-building isn't really needed, it's just Mobius and that's all we need to know.
I do agree that a world map isn't needed and that the level select as it exists currently is sufficient, as the game should progress like the classics in that you immediately move from level to level. That being said, if implemented as a level select screen, I wouldn't complain.

However, the one true caveat of such a level select screen is that problems could arise when selecting your level for a modded stage, or if the developers choose to add more levels to the game they may have to completely redesign sections of the world map.

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Originally Posted by DrTapeworm View Post
is it cheating to say "a HUD that looks more presentable"
Lol, nah. I think the HUD should still be based on the classic games, but it is a wee bit garish and could use some work.

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That said, Chao Gardens, please
Chao Gardens could be great if implemented well and similar to Sonic Adventure 2. I'd love to collect animals from enemies and maybe find items in levels that would progress the A-life functions.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid SOAP View Post
I do agree that a world map isn't needed and that the level select as it exists currently is sufficient, as the game should progress like the classics in that you immediately move from level to level. That being said, if implemented as a level select screen, I wouldn't complain.

However, the one true caveat of such a level select screen is that problems could arise when selecting your level for a modded stage, or if the developers choose to add more levels to the game they may have to completely redesign sections of the world map.
Something that could probably be done to make it work is to use a world map for the main campaign levels, but keep the existing level select for the extra levels such as Haunted Heights. This could allow for support in using the existing level select system for modded in levels, and could also allow modders to create their own world map for custom campaigns.
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