Sonic 4: Episode 2

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Well it's not that I hated all the songs. It's just a majority felt very repetitive and got on my nerves really quickly. Particularly, the music for the last Act bothered me a lot. There was some nice background stuff, but it got overrode by the same 16 repeated phrase. I just wish the repeated phrase wasn't so dominant.

And SS45, yes, Sonic 2 came with a manual, but even then, it's not like it told you step by step what was coming up. I'm pretty sure anyone with a slight sense of realism would understand "Oh hey! bombs. Shouldn't touch those." While at the same time be unprepared for the placement of said obstacles.

You also forget there was a ton of trial and error in classic Sonic games as well. Have a look at Sonic 2 again. In Mystic Cave Zone, we all know of the infamous Super Sonic death trap. But how is everyone suppose to understand that? A fair amount of the pits in that same Zone have spikes, but they also have a spring to get back up. In fact, if I recall correctly, some even have goodies like more rings or invincibility. Also check out the final bosses. You get no rings to fight them. How are you suppose to be prepared for anything they can do other than trial by error? Also check out Big Arm, the final boss from Sonic 3. He can grab you and break Super Sonic. Did the manual just tell you that?

Now look at more recent games. We have games like Mega Man 9 and 10 which harbor no sense of direction at all. The entire game is essentially trial by error. It also is highly ranked for being exactly what Sonic 4 is trying to be: A throw back to older titles. Sure Sonic 4 isn't exactly the same with the tag moves and homing, but the same sense of gameplay is still there.
 
So I managed to get a hold of the beta earlier, and played up until the Sylvania Castle boss until the boss music gave me a headache. The game is pretty decent, although the Tails moves are hilariously abusable.
 
In Mystic Cave Zone, we all know of the infamous Super Sonic death trap. But how is everyone suppose to understand that?

Also check out Big Arm, the final boss from Sonic 3. He can grab you and break Super Sonic. Did the manual just tell you that?

There's a difference between "trial and error" and "stuff the developers didn't know about and fix".

We have games like Mega Man 9 and 10 which harbor no sense of direction at all.

In every MegaMan classic game I know of, including 9 and 10, they ALWAYS show part of a level gimmick in an earlier part of the level its on before really pushing it on you. There's always time to learn about something in MegaMan levels before the pressure is on. The only exception is if a gimmick is reused in Wily's fortress, and even then, its pretty uncommon. Oh, and the Endless challenges in 9 and 10, but those don't really count, probably.
 
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There's a difference between "trial and error" and "stuff the developers didn't know about and fix".

I'll give you that. I didn't even give it the idea that it was something just missed. I retract my statement on that.

In every MegaMan classic game I know of, including 9 and 10, they ALWAYS show part of a level gimmick in an earlier part of the level its on before really pushing it on you. There's always time to learn about something in MegaMan levels before the pressure is on. The only exception is if a gimmick is reused in Wily's fortress, and even then, its pretty uncommon. Oh, and the Endless challenges in 9 and 10, but those don't really count, probably.

This is more in regards to bosses, as that is what SS45 is talking about. When in the stages did it doesn't explain what a boss can do. It gives you an idea as to what they are by their name, but you still have no clue what strategy you will need to employ. This goes for the same sense as his idea of bosses needing to be done through trial and error.
 
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On the other hand, there's things in the game that are not fair with what we've become accustomed to with "modern" design, which is trial by error.

Can you give some examples that Sonic 4 is especially guilty of? I know that 2D platformers in general and 2D Sonic games in particular sometimes throw obstacles in the way of players before they can reasonably react to them. But aside from a few ground-based enemies who happened to be placed on straightaways, I can't think of any reason why Sonic 4 is especially bad at this aspect of level design.

Or is my interpretation of what you mean by "trial by error" even correct?
 
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sigh.

It seriously feels like they stuffed the absolute worst shit from Generations in this game.

I just want to hang my head and sigh before going right back to S4E1.
 
犬夜叉;725865 said:
sigh.

It seriously feels like they stuffed the absolute worst shit from Generations in this game.

I just want to hang my head and sigh before going right back to S4E1.

Wait, what did they add from Generations?
 
Well, I've downloaded the game and played through everything except the final boss, so here's my review:
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*Sonic controls much better than in Episode 1, although he accelerates a bit too rapidly. It's also a bit difficult to slow down if you're moving very fast. Precise platorming feels pretty good, though.

*The physics are about halfway between Episode 1's and the classics'. Sonic does have momentum and doesn't come to a halt immediately if you stop pressing a direction, but rolling down slopes doesn't give you enough speed and the rebound that you get from bouncing off enemies and monitors doesn't have enough force behind it. Also, for whatever reason, your rings fly farther the more you get hit per stage, which I really detest.

*Using Tails to fly isn't as overpowered as it might seem, especially since Tails tires out so quickly, and swimming with him controls well and isn't overpowered either. However, the "69-attack" is significantly more powerful than it should be. It lets you ignore spikes, fire, and enemies completely, and you almost have to try to get forced out of it. However, the facts that it can't slow down or change direction and that you can't use other combo moves while it's active mean that it gets less and less useful as the game goes on. I'll elaborate on the specifics of the game in the zone descriptions below:

Sylvania Castle is a pretty darn good starting zone, certainly an improvement over Splash Hill. Act 1 makes for a good general introduction stage and gives you some well-needed practice at flying with Tails, something you'll be doing a lot of in the other four zones. Act 2 works well as an introduction to water and swimming with Tails, and Act 3 does a good job of showing you how platforming handles in this game. The boss is about as challenging as a first boss should be, but for all the wrong reasons. Its attacks are much too easy to dodge, but you need to fly up and hit him with Tails in order to damage him, which would be fine if jumping off of Tails in mid-flight wasn't so awkward. My only real gripes with this zone are the boss and the fact that you can't use Tails' abilities until the game shows them to you. Other than that, it works pretty well as an introduction zone.

White Park just might be my favorite zone in the game. Act 1 is one of the best individual levels, with an enjoyable mix of speed, platforming, and plenty of alternate paths. I also like the digging-through-snow-with-Tails gimmick that it features. Act 2 doesn't have much in the way of platforming, but it's fun nonetheless. Some of the crushing tracks just come out of nowhere, though. Act 3 is the opposite of Act 2: unnecessarily slow, but with lots of thoughtfully laid-out platforming and interesting gimmicks. The swimming section at the end also taught me that you can accelerate horizontally with the jump button while swimming, which would have been useful information if that wasn't the last time water was used in the entire game. I have no qualms with the boss. Once again, a great zone with a wide variety of act types.

Oil Desert is fun in general, but not very interesting. Act 1 is a decent level, but lacking in intriguing gimmicks, with the exception of the blowing wind. Act 2 is stupidly short and can be made even shorter by spamming the 69-attack. Act 3 is probably the best of the group, with alternating outside speedy sections and interesting platforming challenges involving rising sand. The boss is probably the best in the game, and certainly the most unique, although it doesn't really make sense how you can jump on top of the main body and damage it when it's in the background. Overall, a decent zone, but nothing special.

Sky Fortress would be the best zone in the game if not for the god-awful Act 1, a miserable attempt at replicating the magnificence of Sky Chase. While it is somewhat fun to be controlling the Tornado again, the level in general is plagued by the two worst gimmicks that could ever be inserted into a 2D game: overabundant bottomless pits and automatic movement. There is nothing more frustrating than falling thousands of feet to your death because your homing attack refused to target that Turtloid or getting smooshed against the left side of the screen because the Tornado was auto-flying too fast for you to see that wall of destructible crates approaching. Bottomless pits and auto-running are fine in 3D games because of the enhanced movement and camera position, but in 2D games they're just NO GOOD. Sky Fortress Act 1 is proof of that.

Anyway, now that I'm done with that long rant, let's move on to the other 3/4 of the zone. Act 2 is pretty good, and the amount of bottomless pits in it is more bearable. It still has a few of those automatic movement sections, but the punishment for screwing them up isn't instant death, which I was thankful for. Act 3 is probably my favorite single level in the game, with a phenomenal blend of speed, platforming, exploration, interesting gimmicks, and creative uses of Tails' abilities. Sky Fortress' boss is certainly unique, and the auto-movement section at the end is a lot less maddening than the ones in Act 1. In conclusion, the airship itself is the best environment in the game IMO, but Act 1 drags the zone as a whole way, way down.

Death Egg mk.II was an okay final level, but a lot of its potential was wasted. It would have been great if the first Metal Sonic boss was removed from Act 1 and replaced with more interesting and creative uses of the upside-down, sideways, and diagonal gravity gimmicks. The race with Metal at the end was a welcome addition to the zone, but it is kind of annoying how the only way to beat him (as far as I know) is by spamming the 69-attack. I haven't beaten the final boss yet, as mentioned above, but it is creative and fun to battle, judging by what I've experienced of it so far.

*All of the zones are excellent aesthetically, with expansive backgrounds and realistically detailed foregrounds. I especially like the sunset effects seen in Sky Fortress's third act and boss, as well as the general look and feel of Sylvania Castle Act 3. Sonic and Tails themselves look great as well, especially Sonic, who looks much less like he's made of plastic than in Episode 1.

*The badniks, both old and new, are well-designed and interesting to battle, although their placement is sometimes a bit cheap.

*Finally, the special stages are well-done in general, although Sonic's jump in them feels a bit off. I'm not really sure why. I can't discuss the stages' difficulty, though, since I only bothered to get 50 rings in one act, and therefore have only played and beaten one stage. Special Stage 1 is easy as always, so no issues there so far.

In conclusion, Sonic 4: Episode 2 is a solid Sonic game and a singificant improvement over Episode 1 in almost every way. However, the physics and general gameplay don't really capture the feel of the classics, which is fine with me. In my opinion, Sonic games don't have to follow the classic formula to be good, and that relates to why I see Episode 2 as rather unusual. It tries and fails to be what the Genesis games were, but its blunders in that department shape it into a unique and generally worth-the-15-dollars-or-however-much-it-is-in-your-country experience. The hit-and-miss bosses, sometimes-cheap hazard placement, Oil Desert, and F***ING SKY FORTRESS ACT 1 prevent it from being a fantastic game, but it's still better than a lot of the 3D games and, in my opinion, well worth your money.
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So, what do other people have to say about the second installment in the Sonic 4 saga?
 
but it is kind of annoying how the only way to beat him (as far as I know) is by spamming the 69-attack.

I didn't have this problem, I beat him first time. Though, I used the general Metal Sonic race logic from CD (which is, jump when it's flat and you will avoid most problems) only getting stopped twice. The part at the end with the closing doors just needs a heck load of speed to manage to get under them.

I really liked this game, it really felt nice to play this game. It felt quite smooth to me without feeling intruding. I have to admit, Oil Desert Zone 2 did surprise me in its length, though I haven't got its Red Star Ring yet, so I'm not sure.
 
I'm just awaiting the Android/Tegra 3 version. It'll most likely be cheaper than on Steam if Episode I is any indication
 
It's similar to Generations in that EVERY BOSS in the game is terrible, save maybe Oil Desert's (because it actually managed to keep me engaged during the fight). The game suffers from the same "let's make every boss battle take for-fucking-ever syndrome" that fangames tend to do, which I absolutely loathe. Also, death on the main bosses is near impossible unless you get caught in some instant-kill trap as the game is CONSTANTLY flooding you with rings for all but the first fight (I believe it doesn't do that there, anyway?).

And then there's the final boss which is just a pain in the ass in general, with wonky gravity shit. That gimmick was fun during DE2Z, but, much less so during that fight.

I'm not as livid as I was earlier, it doesn't really play that badly (just, trying to play with a headache kinda agitated me), but still. The deal with the bosses will probably stop me from replaying the entire game again like I sometimes still do with E1.

Also:
Also, for whatever reason, your rings fly farther the more you get hit per stage, which I really detest.
Oh ho ho, you're gonna hate 2.1 then, because our ring loss now works the exact same way. (Except that it has a very slow cooldown.)
 
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犬夜叉;725881 said:
It's similar to Generations in that EVERY BOSS in the game is terrible, save maybe Oil Desert's. The game suffers from the same "let's make every boss battle take for-fucking-ever syndrome" that fangames tend to do, which I absolutely loathe.

Man, I didn't really like the bosses in Generations either (except for 3DS's Biolizard <3), especially after Colours' bosses were so great.
 
犬夜叉;725881 said:
Oh ho ho, you're gonna hate 2.1 then, because our ring loss now works the exact same way. (Except that it has a very slow cooldown.)

It's alright in SRB2, since it's in 3D and therefore you can get more rings back faster. Please tell me you increased the default ring flying distance in 2D, though. One thing that makes the SRB1 remake so easy is that it barely requires any effort to get literally every single ring back.
 
I think part of my problem with this game is that it has the exact opposite flaw as its predecessor; it's near impossible to stop moving quickly. For instance, skidding takes two to three seconds and you still go waaaay too far trying to stop, which is most definitely not how it should be.
 
So this game was released for the Android Platform yesterday. Everything from Episode 1 still happens in episode 2, minus the uncurling.

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Tails has been like this for a good minute now.

This game is still awful, but an improvement nonetheless.
 
Well, I played through the game co-op a few days ago and made a very silly stream of it so I guess it's worth saying what I think on the game now.

It's incredibly okay, for £10 I'm willing to excuse some of the flaws and there are a few nice ideas in there and Sega is clearly learning how to make a better game, but they just haven't learned enough.

The online co-op was a blast, playing through the game while talking over the skype to communicate as we cooperate (or compete and destroy each other whenever possible, as is the case in all coop games) was great fun. But oh my god, Sky Fortress act 1 and the boss were almost impossible in coop mode because one player controls the tornado and the other controls Sonic. It required military levels of preciscion and teamwork to complete without dying, and if I'll be entirely honest, with this in mind these two levels were as difficult as something you would find in Battletoads.

I found the rest of the game enjoyable, but not particularly memorable. The Oil Desert boss and Sky Fortress acts 2 and 3 were nothing short of amazing though.
 
But oh my god, Sky Fortress act 1 and the boss were almost impossible in coop mode because one player controls the tornado and the other controls Sonic. It required military levels of preciscion and teamwork to complete without dying, and if I'll be entirely honest, with this in mind these two levels were as difficult as something you would find in Battletoads.

Actually, you can just press the tag button/key/whateverthehelliphoneuses and Sonic will dash over to the tornado.(or atleast the guy playing as Tails can anyway, haven't tried as Sonic...)

As for my opinion of the game itself... Well, I pretty much agree with everything this guy says.

Also, I can't help but question why episode Metal is so short. I mean, if the levels were all just "Hard Mode" episode 1 levels, why not do them all instead of just the first act of each zone? Not like they'd lose any profits or anything since Episode 1 is required to even access episode Metal...

EDIT: One more thing, after playing some co-op with a friend, it also seems pretty dumb how they didn't add Super Tails. I wouldn't really care if it weren't for the shared ring counter, if Tails gets hurt Sonic is just deprived of his super form, even when already in it.
 
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