Does anyone know where the claim that this is "an art community" came from?

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time gear said:
This reads the same to me as "I think paintings are a form of art, I am not going to call it art because I prefer calling it by what it is, a painting." or "I think books are a form of art, I am not going to call it art because I prefer calling it by what it is, a book." Yeah, video games are a form of artistic media. Simply boiling them down to "video games" doesn't make them less art any more than boiling down "paintings" or "books" or "movies" does with them.
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what im saying is that the term "art" gets thrown around way too much around these parts, that it just makes us think that its like the greatest thing ever. we should be calling things by what they are, not some broad term that makes the thing look better than it actually is, this applies for my mods too. i know that my mods are art, but im never gonna call them that because literally no one outside of this community would refer to it as so.

ring racers being called "fan art" on the github, im bringing this up again, if i showed my friend ring racers, and said to him "yeah this is a work of fan art," my friend would be like "no, this is a fan game."

"art" is a good DESCRIPTIVE word for the mods we make. i would agree if you said "this mod is a work of art!" yes, it is a work of art! but the word around here is instead used as a NOUN, which is too broad of a term for what we make here.

what im saying is that the term "art" is so abused around here to the point where everyone just thinks "oh yeah this is art!" as in a NOUN when art is (and should) be used in the DESCRIPTIVE way. i am not denying that mods are a form of art, but i am sick of the word art being used in a way that makes basically everything in this community seem more high and mighty and based than it really is.

i may be proud of my mods, but i know that they are never going to be my best work due to srb2's limits, so i don't put them on an unnecessary pedestal for everyone to see because i know that i can do better. plus this is a mod for srb2, so you're working off of something that isn't yours anyways. so maybe the "art" here isn't as original as everyone may think
 
Bandder said:
what im saying is that the term "art" gets thrown around way too much around these parts, that it just makes us think that its like the greatest thing ever. we should be calling things by what they are, not some broad term that makes the thing look better than it actually is, this applies for my mods too. i know that my mods are art, but im never gonna call them that because literally no one outside of this community would refer to it as so.
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Like I mentioned before, I don't really see a lot of this myself, and it certainly isn't what I mean when I refer to it as art. I simply call it art because that's what it is. Not a matter of status, but a matter of substance.
Bandder said:
ring racers being called "fan art" on the github, im bringing this up again, if i showed my friend ring racers, and said to him "yeah this is a work of fan art," my friend would be like "no, this is a fan game."
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The only difference I see here is a matter of specificity. It's like the difference between the Platforming genre and the 3D Platforming subgenre.
Bandder said:
what im saying is that the term "art" is so abused around here to the point where everyone just thinks "oh yeah this is art!" as in a NOUN when art is (and should) be used in the DESCRIPTIVE way. i am not denying that mods are a form of art, but i am sick of the word art being used in a way that makes basically everything in this community seem more high and mighty and based than it really is.
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Do you have any examples of this behavior? All I've ever personally seen is the game and mods for it being described as art in the correct sense; that this is an artform and that those who are creating for the game are creating art the same way anyone who draws or writes books or etc. is creating art.
 
Lemerksdagaming said:
Wat
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Even if you disagree that this community isn't largely focused on art, hence an art community, you should treat creators and the like with some form of basic respect regardless for their willingness to make and share stuff. Now obviously this doesn't mean they're free from criticism in return and if they use their art to actively go after other people, you're more than free to call them out for doing so in the first case.
 
Bandder said:
what im saying is that the term "art" is so abused around here to the point where everyone just thinks "oh yeah this is art!" as in a NOUN when art is (and should) be used in the DESCRIPTIVE way. i am not denying that mods are a form of art, but i am sick of the word art being used in a way that makes basically everything in this community seem more high and mighty and based than it really is.
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i think it's a little odd to be against calling this an art community... i see plenty of people creating art constantly and even if you don't want to call a mod art on its own (which i would personally consider mods art! i use my skills as an artist to create mods, why wouldn't they be art?) there are so many people making things every day in this community. it's primarily a video game community, yes, but it's also an art community. because it's comprised of so many people that love to create.
i don't see why this is even a discussion honestly LOL. why would calling this an art community make it seem high and mighty...? is art not a thing for everyone to be able to enjoy? i personally think your view on what art is might be a little too close-minded

Bandder said:
i may be proud of my mods, but i know that they are never going to be my best work due to srb2's limits, so i don't put them on an unnecessary pedestal for everyone to see because i know that i can do better. plus this is a mod for srb2, so you're working off of something that isn't yours anyways. so maybe the "art" here isn't as original as everyone may think
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i also think this is a little. sad? rude? frustrating?? not even sure LOL, but it just feels unpleasant to read. why can't you think it's your best work? if anything, i'm more proud of my mods than anything else i've made and ABSOLUTELY think they're my best work because of the amount of time i've spent on them and the fact that my friends and i were capable of making something so cool even within srb2's limits, which i wouldn't even say are that restrictive. i don't think i'm that great at composition or shading or anything like that but i do know i can make a damn good srb2 character imo.
sure, you're working off of something that isn't yours but... in that case, would any piece of fanart not count as art? what about other things that take heavy inspiration from others? for example star wars has several things it takes from (like flash gordon or mythology in general,) would you not call it art because of this?

...this is starting to become much more philosophical than i thought it would LMAO. i'm probably not making any sense though it's almost midnight and i'm not thinking straight today, just wanted to give my thoughts on this
 
Okay so like literally I'll say this again like many other topics but this is an art community not im the sense everything is art but the fact that people make projects that make you feel something and you see what the creator is expressing, I don't really understanding why so many can't understand that. If you view things differently then fine but do try to view the Lens of others just a lil bit, like i see about anything as art in uts own way in a philosophical sense, a tv is a tv but it's also something that was made and others see it as many things, or food which there's all kinds of that literally everyone has had to have at some point in order to survive n stuff or if they just wanna take a sample of to see if it's good. Writing this actually reminded me of cybershells sonic adventure dx is a bad port video which at the says that more important than wars and stuff is art, and (imo) he's literally the sonic youtuber to ever exist and idk why people ignored that last part, that's the video that made me play sonic adventure on how it originally was and I appreciated the game even more than before, I felt like I was playing around in some kind of draft of what sonic is, idkbof that makes much sense but I think someone has had a feeling like that before so idc. In conclusion I think it's a fun way of seeing things as an an artist myself, if you don't have as much autism as me then maybe you don't see it as much but I do hope reading all this would make this thought make a lil more sense
 
crystallinegazer said:
sure, you're working off of something that isn't yours but... in that case, would any piece of fanart not count as art? what about other things that take heavy inspiration from others? for example star wars has several things it takes from (like flash gordon or mythology in general,) would you not call it art because of this?
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This is an important point to make. Art isn't defined by its originality, its defined by the artists intention behind it and others ability to interpret it differently and form their own opinion on it. It's about creative expression and interpretation. Art not being original can be a valid criticism against its quality, sure, especially in regards to outright plagiarism. However it's not an outright disqualification for being art in general.

When it comes to fan works and such, originality is especially not a focus. It would be silly to even say that art is of lesser quality just because it's a fan work rather than official. The criticism should be more substantial than that to be taken seriously, as the whole point of fan works is that they're based on a pre-existing intellectual property. The very fact that they allow someone to put their own spin on something that already exists is what makes them fan art.

Which ties back into the whole "Fan games are not fan art" thing, as I feel my previous description of the matter could use some more elaboration;
Bandder said:
if i showed my friend ring racers, and said to him "yeah this is a work of fan art," my friend would be like "no, this is a fan game."
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It's not that fan games aren't fan art, they absolutely are. It's that games are a subsection of the broader scope of what art is. Books, movies, games, drawings, poems, etc. All these things are subsections of the broader thing we call "art", which can then be broken down further into genres and even sub-genres. It could be valid to say "No, it's not a First Person Shooter, it's a 3D Platformer.", but to say "No, it's not fan art it's a fan game." is like saying "No, it's not a platformer, it's a 3D platformer.", which is quite silly as all you have done is add specificity as to which type of art it would be categorized as, not contradicted its existence as fan art to begin with. It's a tad unconventional to refer to fan games as fan art, but it's not incorrect to do so. It's just not a thing people do often, which doesn't make it wrong. Just unspecific.
 
GFZ themed level : drab, boring, unexpressive, not art

GFZ themed level that spells out the letters "G F Z" when looked at inside Ultimate Zone Builder: immaculate work of art, its beauty cannot be expressed in mere words, FRACUNITs need to get involved

there was a point I wanted to make but I forgot, it's about perspective I guess
 
Zipper said:
GFZ themed level : drab, boring, unexpressive, not art

GFZ themed level that spells out the letters "G F Z" when looked at inside Ultimate Zone Builder: immaculate work of art, its beauty cannot be expressed in mere words, FRACUNITs need to get involved

there was a point I wanted to make but I forgot, it's about perspective I guess
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WHERE-
WHERE CAN I GET SUCH A BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF ART
 
crystallinegazer said:
sure, you're working off of something that isn't yours but... in that case, would any piece of fanart not count as art? what about other things that take heavy inspiration from others? for example star wars has several things it takes from (like flash gordon or mythology in general,) would you not call it art because of this?
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fanart is art because its just drawing a picture of something you like. meanwhile with code you are using pre-made scripts already in the game, and mushing them all together into something new. you could argue that this is like AI art and how it takes snippets of premade things and makes a new picture out if it, only here the only thing you are taking are scripts already implimented in the game. obviously i am not saying “code is ai art” im just saying that the way it works is similar, and if you think i AM saying that then you should go back to kindergarten and learn to read. idk what made you think “fanart” and “code” are exactly the same, cuz they aren’t
crystallinegazer said:
i also think this is a little. sad? rude? frustrating?? not even sure LOL, but it just feels unpleasant to read. why can't you think it's your best work? if anything, i'm more proud of my mods than anything else i've made and ABSOLUTELY think they're my best work because of the amount of time i've spent on them and the fact that my friends and i were capable of making something so cool even within srb2's limits
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ok so? that’s what you think is your best work. i was also saying what i thought was my best work. also if your best work is a mod of something then idk what to say to you i guess. also sad? rude? frustrating? my guy i just want the best for the community that i left. i have nothing to lose by being mean tbh
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also when i say “code” i mean “srb2 lua”

some people are dumb so i need to specify
 
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Bandder said:
fanart is art because its just drawing a picture of something you like
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It seems to me as though you're getting confused by popular usage of terminology that's skewing your perception of what the terminology means. It's commonplace for pictures, fan works and otherwise, to simply get referred to as "art". However, this common usage falls into the same specificity problem I outlined earlier. Technically, these pictures "should" get referred to as "drawings" and "paintings" and "pixel art/sprites" and such when applicable, with the "fan" prefix in front when they are fan works rather than completely original/official works.

As such, because of this popular usage you seem to be under the impression that fan drawings are fan art but fan games are not, which is incorrect. They are both examples of fan art, just different categories.
Bandder said:
meanwhile with code you are using pre-made scripts already in the game, and mushing them all together into something new
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Congratulations, you just described how literally everyone making any art undergoes the creative process. It's all just a bunch of borrowing and reinterpreting and remixing different aspects of other things to make something new out of it. This is what is being referred to when artists list out the inspirations behind their work. As long as something isn't lifted from something else verbatim to the point it becomes plagiarism, this is all completely fine and ordinary, and is why individual things started getting categorized into tropes.

Make no mistake, code absolutely can be used to create art through the experience provided from playing the end result, and the process of taking pre-existing code and reworking it into something new to create new art is the same sort of thing as, say, when an artist pays homage to another artist in their drawings with similar posing in their image for example.
 
Just gonna give my mini take real quick: this is not really "art", but it is artistic. It's a mod community for a mod of a game, no need to get harsh about it.
 
Alright, so lemme lay it straight, so yall stop arguing over a MERE word.
Yes Art is mainly referred to as a title for drawings and the like. However, it is commonly used to say something is masterfully done or crafted. So yes, a mod for a game CAN be considered art, according to the English terminology rules.
I rest my case.
 
This is reminds me of the phrase
“Just because your correct doesn’t mean your right”


According to the textbook definition of art, a lot of things can be considered “art”.

While you could considering making srb2 mods as making art, I feel like the term of art is normally associated with prestige.

To me personally it comes off as pretentious. I personally do not believe that this community should be considered an art community because there’s a lot more to srb2 then just the textbook definition of “art”.
 
XtremeXavier said:
Sounds to me like you equate the idea of this being an "art community" to needing to treat people's work with a measure of respect you aren't willing to give.
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welp i guess im disrespecting myself then! cuz i have not only made mods on this site, but i am artist myself, and i am also a programmer for my own original game! please do some basic research before making an argument like this. you really hurt an artist's feelings here, which is what this community is against. i do respect artists like myself, but i do not respect them when they treat stuff like mods for a silly sonic doom engine game as the mona lisa, and force everyone else to treat it as such.

time gear said:
Congratulations, you just described how literally everyone making any art undergoes the creative process. It's all just a bunch of borrowing and reinterpreting and remixing different aspects of other things to make something new out of it. This is what is being referred to when artists list out the inspirations behind their work. As long as something isn't lifted from something else verbatim to the point it becomes plagiarism, this is all completely fine and ordinary, and is why individual things started getting categorized into tropes.
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literally not the same thing, with code, ur using said code to make the game that you DIDN'T make do something. i said "code" multiple times throughout my statement, not art. and i even specified at the bottom that when i say "code" i mean "srb2 lua," and you treated it as if i said "art" the entire time. please read more closely, it will help you later down in life

time gear said:
As such, because of this popular usage you seem to be under the impression that fan drawings are fan art but fan games are not, which is incorrect. They are both examples of fan art, just different categories.
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yes, all those things are art, but calling everything "art" is once again used as an excuse to "treat stuff like mods for a silly sonic doom engine game as the mona lisa, and force everyone else to treat it as such." as i have already said before

Bartz said:
While you could considering making srb2 mods as making art, I feel like the term of art is normally associated with prestige.

To me personally it comes off as pretentious. I personally do not believe that this community should be considered an art community because there’s a lot more to srb2 then just the textbook definition of “art”.
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yeah what he said, pretty based
 
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