A Final Message

Kyron Saif

Member
Claiming an SRB2 mod (or even a DOOM mod by proxy, considering what SRB2 is based off/a fork of) as your own is unfortunately a real thing people do, despite virtually every mod lacking a real world license and a copyright (Show me legal proof that I can’t modify someone else's mod when they don’t specify “Open Assets”, or better yet, tell me why your mod would be legally immune to interference from SEGA (or other legal entities that would fall under that criteria)).

Do not use the excuse that "Oh, SEGA doesn't care", not only is there plenty of other properties besides that of SEGA's (including Nintendo) used frequently in this community, the reason SEGA "doesn't care" is because their reputation relies on it to a degree (among other reasons, none of which legally favor you or benefit you in anyway that matters enough for SEGA to take action).)). People make mods that are almost always derivatives of SEGA’s work, and contrasting them to Nintendo doesn't matter. For example, Nintendo has not legally pursued Toby Fox for using the EarthBound soundfont (among others). Why? Nintendo sampled many western works that they most definitely did not have permission to sample when creating EarthBound. If Nintendo were to legally attack Toby Fox, they would most likely be sued by the actual rightsholders (which would be ironic.))

Technically, the GPL 2.0 (SRB2’s License) does allow “this is my mod go awae scammur”, as generally speaking, the mod is not inherently part of the program, however… the GPL doesn’t give you legal right to use copyrighted/trademarked properties you do not own or do not have permission to use (no software license does), especially with regard to preventing others from using it. A valid example of this would be the Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Sonic Adventure 2 modding communities. They modify games that are closed source, but people reuse assets all the time (some people deem it as "stealing" when that is unsubstantiated). It doesn’t matter what the game’s license is in this regard. If I wanted to do something like… completely change Jana's Ultra Instinct Action to something else entirely (In fact, I'm specifically going to out of my way to do this, but not post it on any SRB2 boards of any kind). I could do that with obvious backlash, however I still have the freedom to modify a mod that’s either for an open source (FOSS) or closed source game. Telling us “Waaah, don’t edit my mod ;-;”, holds absolutely no weight in an actual court of law, and is unsubstantiated and possibly illegal (unless the work was entirely original, and does not rely on any assets used without permission, AKA Intellectual Property (which, in of itself is a minority among SRB2 mods, and even video game mods in general)).

Also, for the record, my associates and I are well aware that in various parts of the world, "copyright" can literally be claimed without interacting with a government authority or requiring some kind of payment (assuming you're tasteless enough to really bother doing so with something like that), but, oftentimes, such claiming offers no form of actual legal protection, and if anything is less safe from a large predatory legal entity with much darker ideals who is actually stealing from you (and all of us, really) simply by nabbing it from you, where such faked "protection" is ironically pointless in comparison to something like the GPL or even full on Public Domain (as strange as that sounds).

So in short, the most people can do is yell at me and maybe "discipline" me with some form of moderation specific to the SRB2 Message Board and basically nothing else, and that’s it. No other forms of consequences outside of that legally stop me, or even really exist at all.

In conclusion:

SRB2 Community: "Original the Assets, do not steal."

Me: "NO!"

The “Open Assets” and “Closed Assets” concept doesn’t work, and falls apart (unless you legally own the mod, in which case, show me your USPTO copyright papers that you should have, amigo.) You won’t ever see me specifying Open or Closed assets for my mods (wherever I decide to host them), because the answer is obvious.

You can do whatever the heck you want with them. Time to ditch SRB2 MasterBoard.

God bless.
 
Claiming an SRB2 mod (or even a DOOM mod by proxy, considering what SRB2 is based off/a fork of) as your own is unfortunately a real thing people do, despite virtually every mod lacking a real world license and a copyright (Show me legal proof that I can’t modify someone else's mod when they don’t specify “Open Assets”, or better yet, tell me why your mod would be legally immune to interference from SEGA (or other legal entities that would fall under that criteria)).

Do not use the excuse that "Oh, SEGA doesn't care", not only is there plenty of other properties besides that of SEGA's (including Nintendo) used frequently in this community, the reason SEGA "doesn't care" is because their reputation relies on it to a degree (among other reasons, none of which legally favor you or benefit you in anyway that matters enough for SEGA to take action).)). People make mods that are almost always derivatives of SEGA’s work, and contrasting them to Nintendo doesn't matter. For example, Nintendo has not legally pursued Toby Fox for using the EarthBound soundfont (among others). Why? Nintendo sampled many western works that they most definitely did not have permission to sample when creating EarthBound. If Nintendo were to legally attack Toby Fox, they would most likely be sued by the actual rightsholders (which would be ironic.))

Technically, the GPL 2.0 (SRB2’s License) does allow “this is my mod go awae scammur”, as generally speaking, the mod is not inherently part of the program, however… the GPL doesn’t give you legal right to use copyrighted/trademarked properties you do not own or do not have permission to use (no software license does), especially with regard to preventing others from using it. A valid example of this would be the Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Sonic Adventure 2 modding communities. They modify games that are closed source, but people reuse assets all the time (some people deem it as "stealing" when that is unsubstantiated). It doesn’t matter what the game’s license is in this regard. If I wanted to do something like… completely change Jana's Ultra Instinct Action to something else entirely (In fact, I'm specifically going to out of my way to do this, but not post it on any SRB2 boards of any kind). I could do that with obvious backlash, however I still have the freedom to modify a mod that’s either for an open source (FOSS) or closed source game. Telling us “Waaah, don’t edit my mod ;-;”, holds absolutely no weight in an actual court of law, and is unsubstantiated and possibly illegal (unless the work was entirely original, and does not rely on any assets used without permission, AKA Intellectual Property (which, in of itself is a minority among SRB2 mods, and even video game mods in general)).

Also, for the record, my associates and I are well aware that in various parts of the world, "copyright" can literally be claimed without interacting with a government authority or requiring some kind of payment (assuming you're tasteless enough to really bother doing so with something like that), but, oftentimes, such claiming offers no form of actual legal protection, and if anything is less safe from a large predatory legal entity with much darker ideals who is actually stealing from you (and all of us, really) simply by nabbing it from you, where such faked "protection" is ironically pointless in comparison to something like the GPL or even full on Public Domain (as strange as that sounds).

So in short, the most people can do is yell at me and maybe "discipline" me with some form of moderation specific to the SRB2 Message Board and basically nothing else, and that’s it. No other forms of consequences outside of that legally stop me, or even really exist at all.

In conclusion:

SRB2 Community: "Original the Assets, do not steal."

Me: "NO!"

The “Open Assets” and “Closed Assets” concept doesn’t work, and falls apart (unless you legally own the mod, in which case, show me your USPTO copyright papers that you should have, amigo.) You won’t ever see me specifying Open or Closed assets for my mods (wherever I decide to host them), because the answer is obvious.

You can do whatever the heck you want with them. Time to ditch SRB2 MasterBoard.

God bless.
Nevermind, I just realized I read this wrong.
It falls more to the people here. It's moreso common sense. If people don't want you messing with their stuff, just don't. And they're posting their mods here. If it's edited from a closed assets thing, saying they don't want people messing with it, it kinda falls on you for not listening to rules.
Now, why did you post this, may I ask? To take a fucking shit on the MB? To get attention? To look "cool" and "rebellious"?
 
I'll put my own two cents into this discussion.

Credit is great and all, but refusing to let people use your work as a base or something similar regardless of if they credit you or not just seems petty and a way to boost your ego because "oooo, it's something I made, and I don't want anyone else using my free work made for a free fangame which itself is open source!"

I feel like the mods should all be under the same principle of being open source as well.
I understand that assets for mods are very far from being effortless to make, but it's still additional content for an open source video game.
Besides, people still take assets from non-reusable mods regardless of if you like it or not. Assets from mods without the Open Assets tag being reused are only really enforceable on this message board and this message board alone, and to me, that just looks like a losing battle.

I understand why the Open Assets system is a thing, but that doesn't mean I personally agree with it.


EDIT: I'm also not saying "Let's let everyone copy the good mods bar for bar and pass it off as their own!". I'm saying that mods should be able to be modified or have their individual assets be reused elsewhere by others. Making bar for bar copies and/or passing work off as one's own is a different story and those actions specifically should be disallowed, as that's not proper use of open source assets as far as I'm aware.
 
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Credit is great and all, but refusing to let people use your work as a base regardless of if they credit you or not just seems petty and a way to boost your ego because "oooo, it's something I made, and I don't want anyone else using my free work made for a free fangame which itself is open source!"

I feel like the mods should all be under the same principle of being open source as well.
I understand that assets for mods are very far from being effortless to make, but it's still additional content for an open source video game.
Besides, people still take assets from non-reusable mods regardless of if you like it or not. Assets from mods without the Open Assets tag being reused are only really enforceable on this message board and this message board alone, and to me, that just looks like a losing battle.

I understand why the Open Assets system is a thing, but that doesn't mean I personally agree with it.
What if you...
KEEP IT ON THE MESSAGE BOARD!? CRAZY, RIGHT? :000
(This is a satire joke. But I somewhat agree with your opinion, respectfully.)
 
What if you...
KEEP IT ON THE MESSAGE BOARD!? CRAZY, RIGHT? :000
(This is a satire joke. But I somewhat agree with your opinion, respectfully.)
My point is that there is no point to the Open Assets system, since it specifically isn't in place anywhere else.
I've already said that keeping it here is just petty and trying to stay standing in a losing battle.
 
My point is that there is no point to the Open Assets system, since it specifically isn't in place anywhere else.
Good point. Counter point.
All the somewhat decent mods are here, most of the others are shit, lmao. So people HAVE to come here.
Not disagreeing, just putting a little comment.
 
oooo, it's something I made, and I don't want anyone else using my free work made for a free fangame which itself is open source!
i partially agree with that.
like, i don’t care whether people use my stuff i made. do whatever the hell you want with it, you don’t need permission, just use it. but if it’s basically like a carbon copy in terms of what it is, all i’m asking for is something like “btw this person made this sprite”, or “this ability’s code was made by this person”. not too hard, right?
 
The biggest thing is balance, the amazing addon creators spend hours of work on these mods so it's very important to respect their work. But I definitely see your point Jammin' and agree with some parts of it, but also believe that their work is their time and effort so if they say no then it is their brain child and should be respected
 
The biggest thing is balance, the amazing addon creators spend hours of work on these mods so it's very important to respect their work. But I definitely see your point Jammin' and agree with some parts of it, but also believe that their work is their time and effort so if they say no then it is their brain child and should be respected
Brain Mitosis:
 
View attachment 146380
"HEY GUYS, TOHRU ADACHI HERE TO EXPLAIN THE JOKE-"
Jokes aside, Mitosis is a science thing. Basically, reproduction for cells with no bitches.
Since Brains have cells in them, I said that Brain Child could be traced back to Mitosis, therefore creating...
BRAIN MITOSIS! :000
I know but at a quick glance, and with my brain having the power equivalent to a SEGA Master System I was very confused for a second
 
I just saw this post that Kyron made and I have no clue who that guy even was. I'm likely not gonna stay into this situation as I was just confused why did Kyron made the post.
 
Ragebait post and I'm about to fall for it. You see, there's a certain feeling that you get when you make a mod and you feel proud of it, and you don't want others benefiting off of your hard work. However you likely do not make mods. I'm sure if you did, and put some real effort into it you would understand why reusability is a thing. Also just wanted to say it's pretty crazy to be bringing up legal stuff when arguing about Sonic fangame mods, you should be respecting other's work and what they wish to do with it, its a very basic principal.
 
One thing I'll say is that, I consider talking about "identically copying" in this case to kind of be a straw man argument, as it's antithetical to the idea of what reusability actually means. That's like saying if I posted the StephChars mod on 4Chan or elsewhere. That doesn't count as "reusing", that's just reposting a mod (redistributing is not the same as creating a transformative work). Of course, giving credit is something I do support, as even I don't support sanely taking others works and taking credit for them (this portion about giving credit has nothing to do with copyright, though it can be related to it. Mentioning this just in case).

My intent with my post wasn't to really... "start anything" per se. I just felt the need to be vocal about this, as surprisingly nobody has discussed this (with some exceptions). People like to prioritize what they deem as "morality" over "legality", and forget what that actually means. If I wanted to actually start something, don't you think I would have said more harsh things, rather than be informative? I want to be a form of help, not someone people just assume is a "situation starter".

I'd like to say as well...

I make mods. I have a few in the works for SRB2, but I make mods for other games (Nazo and Seelkadoom in SA2 is a prominent example), and I do not care if people use them, modify them, or otherwise redistribute them. Thus is the way of Computing Freedom, and I will always encourage this.

Unless I'm missing something (and people are free to correct me), but I'm pretty sure the Open and Closed Assets concept didn't exist in the past. Having "the good mods" is not an excuse to have bad policy. "Intellectual Property enforcement" and a lack of quality control are not mutually exclusive and shouldn't be confused.
 
Claiming an SRB2 mod (or even a DOOM mod by proxy, considering what SRB2 is based off/a fork of) as your own is unfortunately a real thing people do, despite virtually every mod lacking a real world license and a copyright (Show me legal proof that I can’t modify someone else's mod when they don’t specify “Open Assets”, or better yet, tell me why your mod would be legally immune to interference from SEGA (or other legal entities that would fall under that criteria)).

Do not use the excuse that "Oh, SEGA doesn't care", not only is there plenty of other properties besides that of SEGA's (including Nintendo) used frequently in this community, the reason SEGA "doesn't care" is because their reputation relies on it to a degree (among other reasons, none of which legally favor you or benefit you in anyway that matters enough for SEGA to take action).)). People make mods that are almost always derivatives of SEGA’s work, and contrasting them to Nintendo doesn't matter. For example, Nintendo has not legally pursued Toby Fox for using the EarthBound soundfont (among others). Why? Nintendo sampled many western works that they most definitely did not have permission to sample when creating EarthBound. If Nintendo were to legally attack Toby Fox, they would most likely be sued by the actual rightsholders (which would be ironic.))

Technically, the GPL 2.0 (SRB2’s License) does allow “this is my mod go awae scammur”, as generally speaking, the mod is not inherently part of the program, however… the GPL doesn’t give you legal right to use copyrighted/trademarked properties you do not own or do not have permission to use (no software license does), especially with regard to preventing others from using it. A valid example of this would be the Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Sonic Adventure 2 modding communities. They modify games that are closed source, but people reuse assets all the time (some people deem it as "stealing" when that is unsubstantiated). It doesn’t matter what the game’s license is in this regard. If I wanted to do something like… completely change Jana's Ultra Instinct Action to something else entirely (In fact, I'm specifically going to out of my way to do this, but not post it on any SRB2 boards of any kind). I could do that with obvious backlash, however I still have the freedom to modify a mod that’s either for an open source (FOSS) or closed source game. Telling us “Waaah, don’t edit my mod ;-;”, holds absolutely no weight in an actual court of law, and is unsubstantiated and possibly illegal (unless the work was entirely original, and does not rely on any assets used without permission, AKA Intellectual Property (which, in of itself is a minority among SRB2 mods, and even video game mods in general)).

Also, for the record, my associates and I are well aware that in various parts of the world, "copyright" can literally be claimed without interacting with a government authority or requiring some kind of payment (assuming you're tasteless enough to really bother doing so with something like that), but, oftentimes, such claiming offers no form of actual legal protection, and if anything is less safe from a large predatory legal entity with much darker ideals who is actually stealing from you (and all of us, really) simply by nabbing it from you, where such faked "protection" is ironically pointless in comparison to something like the GPL or even full on Public Domain (as strange as that sounds).

So in short, the most people can do is yell at me and maybe "discipline" me with some form of moderation specific to the SRB2 Message Board and basically nothing else, and that’s it. No other forms of consequences outside of that legally stop me, or even really exist at all.

In conclusion:

SRB2 Community: "Original the Assets, do not steal."

Me: "NO!"

The “Open Assets” and “Closed Assets” concept doesn’t work, and falls apart (unless you legally own the mod, in which case, show me your USPTO copyright papers that you should have, amigo.) You won’t ever see me specifying Open or Closed assets for my mods (wherever I decide to host them), because the answer is obvious.

You can do whatever the heck you want with them. Time to ditch SRB2 MasterBoard.

God bless.
Well, it all just boils down to "stealing". The whole copyright thing has been in motion for 60 years or less, and the whole point of it is people are scared of their art being stolen and reclaimed. So therefore, it's why these Open/Closed assets thing is a rule here. Besides, mod stealing is a big no-no. A good example of stealing SRB2 mods is the WIP SRB2 Megamix project, which steals the Shadow character mod. And I'm not talking about SRB2 in general, other modding communities also experience that "Stealing" thing too. But truth to be told, is it really that simple to steal little parts of a "Closed" asset mod and then crediting them for their work? I mean, you're being honest about yourself and spreading someone's work across the community, and not being some illegal fool that cries "I MADE IT NOT U". It can also apply to unofficial ports of older mods that're not on the "Ports" segment on the SRB2 & Ring Racers Addons & More. But then again, it's still someone's work. But it's not like you'll take someone's idea and then make it into a crappy public mobile game that are gaining money, right?
 
Ultimately it's not about legality to begin with. Reusability isn't something that the SRB2MB is trying to legally enforce; you're not going to get brought to court if you take a mod and modify it without permission. In fact, nobody is truly doing anything to stop you from doing this, and can't anyway. Rather, it's a matter of community rules and conduct. If you modify someone else's work without permission, you're not allowed to repost it here. It's treated as community mods and the game itself as being two separate pieces of art. The game itself is open source, individual mods made for it aren't necessarily also intended to be and the desires of the author are respected even if not legally enforceable. You don't have to agree, but by the same token they don't have to accept your submissions either.
 
i personally don't agree with reusability in retrospect but i also don't think its a good idea to remove it at this point as i think it would be very harmful and cause chaos in the community due to how its ingrained into everyone's brains at this point. this community already has its fair share of chaos every once in a while. we really don't need more.

but i can appreciate that there's finally a discussion about this that isn't "no reusability is good ur wrong go die" or "no reusability bad go die" or something like that
 
i personally don't agree with reusability in retrospect but i also don't think its a good idea to remove it at this point as i think it would be very harmful and cause chaos in the community due to how its ingrained into everyone's brains at this point. this community already has its fair share of chaos every once in a while. we really don't need more.

but i can appreciate that there's finally a discussion about this that isn't "no reusability is good ur wrong go die" or "no reusability bad go die" or something like that
"No reusability is good ur wrong go die" Fucking got me lmao-
 

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