New 2D Sonic game "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" announced for 2010

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GREG THE CAT said:
The thing that bugs me most about that[...] Megaman 9 and New Super Mario Bros. Wii is released, a few months later SEGA announces that they are having Dimps develop a CG prerendered sequel to the classic games[...] Super Mario Galaxy 2 is released and a month later Sonic Colours is announced. The thing that's ticking me off here is that SEGA is cashing in on the popular trend at the moment and copying what it's competition is doing.
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I can understand your point about this and why you'd be upset. Indeed, it does seem like they are just trying to follow in the footsteps of successful games. I can understand why you are upset with them, and why you are expecting a disappointment, however, I personally can't agree with you on this next point.

GREG THE CAT said:
If they really want to reel me in, they should try putting more effort into what they're doing and make their strategy plan less predictable.
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Although it is predictable given the current releases of New Super Mario Bros, etc, I believe that for the first time in a long time, Sega is actually putting effort into what they're doing. They really are trying to go back to their roots, and it's not going to be an easy ride.

GREG THE CAT said:
It seemed more like a good portion of my favorite things from the classics that I really liked but half assed yet playable and will appeal more to people who never played a Genesis yet it calls itself a sequel.

OH WAIT. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
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Although a lot of enemies are recycled, the stages are all new and have unique aspects to each of them, despite borrowing ideas and themes from the classics. Because Sega departed from the classic formula for so long, I think that borrowing aspects from the originals is a great idea to help them get back on track. Whether or not this game turns out well, I cannot say that it is a half-hearted attempt.
 
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GREG THE CAT said:
I'd take a perfect replica of a game I played 17 years ago with amazingly well updated graphics that is named appropriately "Sonic 3 & Knuckles HD Remix" than a game that claims to be Sonic 4, yet has nothing new to offer except for a minecart stage with obligatory dynamite and pitch dark areas.
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There is no minecart stage in Sonic 4. There is a zone which has a small minecart sequence somewhere in it. And I don't see how dynamite and pitch dark areas are obligatory, sorry. So, basically, all you've seen is the introduction zone (which never was original even in the "classics") and Lost Labyrinth, which indeed has quite a lot of original stuff. There are still two more zones you haven't seen, so it's much too quick to claim this game has nothing new to offer, don't you think?
 
SpiritCrusher said:
There are still two more zones you haven't seen, so it's much too quick to claim this game has nothing new to offer, don't you think?
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Did you see the leaked footage of all this game's levels a few months ago? Although it's impossible to say that those leaks contained all the gimmicks and other level features that are to be included in the final build, my impression is that we ended up seeing a great deal of it.

I'm a little disappointed in Sonic 4 in terms of originality (the idealist in me wants a graphic and musical evolution of what we saw in the Genesis games, with totally new level tropes, gimmicks, and an entrancing story. I guess this is analogous to GREG THE CAT's ideal). I won't say that about Sonic Colors, though. Though it does seem to ape off of the success of Super Mario Galaxy, I do think that what innovations the developers did create/expand more than make up for that.
 
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Ultimate said:
I believe that for the first time in a long time, Sega is actually putting effort into what they're doing.
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So, you´re telling that a Side-screened 2D game with old concepts had more effort than a smooth-3D hi-speed game with all-new engine, 70 missions, extra content, 60 videos, people to speak with, unlockable skills and real-time gameplay transition?
 
Sonnarkku said:
So, you´re telling that a Side-screened 2D game with old concepts had more effort than a smooth-3D hi-speed game with all-new engine, 70 missions, extra content, 60 videos, people to speak with, unlockable skills and real-time gameplay transition?
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Sorry, should have been more specific. For the first time in a long time they are putting effort in to please the classic players.
 
Ultimate said:
Although a lot of enemies are recycled, the stages are all new and have unique aspects to each of them, despite borrowing ideas and themes from the classics. Because Sega departed from the classic formula for so long, I think that borrowing aspects from the originals is a great idea to help them get back on track. Whether or not this game turns out well, I cannot say that it is a half-hearted attempt.
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Well, yeah, I can see where you are coming from. But the thing is why is SEGA so clueless on what was going on with their franchise 17 years ago yet every fangame I see out of Sonic Retro feels like a sequel to these decade old games should be? Why do the fans have such an excellent knowledge on how these classic games work, yet SEGA has to take baby steps in order to achieve something resembling the classics on all levels? It disappoints me to be honest and makes me feel like they've let me down. What doesn't help is the initial Sonic 4 post from all the way back in February sounded like they were doing it against their will simply to get us (those who loved the classics best) back into enjoying the franchise? They said it similarly to this: "Here you go, what you've all been waiting for. You wanted it, you got it. Yessirre." It didn't seem really sincere back then and it doesn't sound sincere now.

Wombatwarlord777 said:
Did you see the leaked footage of all this game's levels a few months ago? Although it's impossible to say that those leaks contained all the gimmicks and other level features that are to be included in the final build, my impression is that we ended up seeing a great deal of it.

I'm a little disappointed in Sonic 4 in terms of originality (the idealist in me wants a graphic and musical evolution of what we saw in the Genesis games, with totally new level tropes, gimmicks, and an entrancing story. I guess this is analogous to GREG THE CAT's ideal). I won't say that about Sonic Colors, though. Though it does seem to ape off of the success of Super Mario Galaxy, I do think that what innovations the developers did create/expand more than make up for that.
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Exactly, on all levels. We're on the same page on all accounts. Sonic gameplay from Unleashed isn't my favorite play style from any of the franchise's outgoings but it worked and was admittedly fun despite being linear. Colours' alt. routes may be power up accessible only, but it's still opening new paths to take and explore, something that Unleashed lacked. What also has me interested is that it has multiplayer which was in demand ever since Unleashed's release, and should be a fun addition to the formula. I'm actually looking forward to Colours as long as we get the promise of solid gameplay (which is being satisfied pretty well) and that the final boss is Robotnik (I mean, the Madworld writers should be more than capable of making Robotnik more bad ass especially in his final fight against his arch foe).

I hope that the future episodes of Sonic 4 will interest me though, since word is going around that brand new content will be in it.

Friend/Contact added: WombatWarlord777.
 
Yeah, really. It's like Fox News said the sky is blue, but since it's Fox News you'll just say they're full of shit.
 
The source is obviously valid, let's get past "lol TSSZ" and talk about boost pads. Iizuka's right, in a way: boosts do affect the pacing of the game, and I'd like to use Chemical Plant as an example.

You could describe Sonic 2's zones pretty easily: Emerald Hill was the Beginner's Level, getting the player accustomed to the basic elements of the game, like platforming, items, enemies, and hazards; Aquatic Ruins was the Water Level, featuring a level-exclusive hazard that heavily altered how the player went through the zone and provided a unique challenge; Casino Nights was the Physics Level, entertaining the player with the unique pinball mechanics of a Sonic game... so on and so forth.

Chemical Plant, perhaps excluding the infamous rising chemicals part of Act 2, was the Speed Level, dazzling the player with incredible speed and constant twists and turns. Speed was Chemical Plant's unique gimmick, and for this purpose, boost pads were sometimes more practical than horizontal springs at keeping the fast paced action of the level flowing. Unrestrained speed was fun, but it was also easy, so Chemical Plant made a good second zone, and the rising acids spilled (lolpun) into Aquatic Ruins' prime gimmick, which made it a good transition into the water level.

Every other level in Sonic 2 uses horizontal springs, for the most part. The difference between these and boost pads is that pads are laid on the ground, and are therefore easy to run into. With horizontal springs, you have to consciously run into them a lot of times; you can easily recognize and jump over them, or you can just ignore them altogether. The boost pads were a good level-exclusive gimmick, but if the level isn't supposed to be speedspeedspeed, then it'd just get in the way, and so the horizontal springs remained superior.

This is why I think Sonic Team's level design would improve with the use of horizontal springs rather than boost pads. Boost pads might keep the pacing, but they're also auto-pilot inducing -- the player runs on top of it before he knows it and is moving forward automatically. With horizontal springs, the player could choose to go a certain direction very quickly... or they could very easily choose not to take the spring, that way they could do something different, like, I dunno, spindash through the path, or go backwards through the level because the player missed something. Sonic Adventure was testing Sonic in a 3D environment, so it's a bit understandable why they'd use the boost paths and scripted loops, sacrificing control in favor of ease of use... but it's 2010, and this isn't even a 3D Sonic game. It's Sonic 4. Are we going to get four Speed Levels, or are we going to get the kind of diversity the old Genesis games delivered?

tl;dr Boost pads aren't bad for one or two levels, but I don't want it to dominate the entire game, because it has a tendency of reducing player control and encouraging... "hold right to win" tendencies, as people call it. Just leave it to springs.
 
I actually think boost pads can be used, as long as they are placed in front of obstacles or in the edges of plataforms, and are not placed in the middle of the track.

Now, comparing this to the previous release, Sonic Unleashed, it was a game based on Plataforming and Speed, the problem is, the Act 1 of each level, lacked places to brake, there was not ending to the running, and in the other hand, the Act 2 of each level lacked speed, They were just about god damn jumping and not falling off the cliff, then more jump, and jump, and jump. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tacJ2Ksa7nA The thing is, I know this is Sonic Unleashed, and the topic is about STH 4, but with all the hype that is being made up about ¨Plataforming¨ and stuff for Sonic 4, well, I don´t know what to expect.
 
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Sonnarkku said:
I actually think boost pads can be used, as long as they are placed in front of obstacles or in the edges of plataforms, and are not placed in the middle of the track.
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You mean placing boost pads in places where using them would actually hurt you in some way? I would consider that nothing but annoying.
 
SpiritCrusher said:
You mean placing boost pads in places where using them would actually hurt you in some way? I would consider that nothing but annoying.
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I actually was trying to say it the oposite way, I´ll say an example.

You go running trough a meadow, and then there are spikes, you jump over the spikes, there is a boost near the spikes, but you miss it because you jumped too far but there is an inclinated sector you can´t go trough, so you have to go back close to the spikes, then take the boost.

Letter drawing, FTW:


__________^^^_>>___________/

The >> are speed sectors and ^^^ are spikes, you have to brake in order to get the speed sector, instead, if you just jump, you will miss the speed sector.
 
Sonnarkku said:
I actually think boost pads can be used, as long as they are placed in front of obstacles or in the edges of plataforms, and are not placed in the middle of the track.
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I'm guessing you mean places where Sonic might actually need the diagonal boost to get to the next platform. That's not necessarily a bad idea, but that's still nothing a diagonal spring couldn't or wouldn't do either. Plus, springs stand out a little more visually, so I'm inclined to say it's the better option there, even if only slightly.

EDIT: I missed your next post, but yeah.

Now, comparing this to the previous release, Sonic Unleashed, it was a game based on Plataforming and Speed, the problem is, the Act 1 of each level, lacked places to brake, there was not ending to the running, and in the other hand, the Act 2 of each level lacked speed, They were just about god damn jumping and not falling off the cliff, then more jump, and jump, and jump. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tacJ2Ksa7nA The thing is, I know this is Sonic Unleashed, and the topic is about STH 4, but with all the hype that is being made up about ¨Plataforming¨ and stuff for Sonic 4, well, I don´t know what to expect.
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...Platforming. It's spelled platforming.

Although I can't quite speak for the 360 version of Unleashed, I found a large problem with the Wii version was that it was basically linear by design. Even with its branching paths in 3D sections, you were still restricted to set paths, unlike a game like Sonic Adventure, which typically had a much wider plain allowing for more movement. The 2D segments are not at all structured the way a classic Genesis game would have done its level design; borrowing off Sonic 2 again as an example, the level you linked to could have simply been a "top" section (with rewards like 1-ups for staying on the path for so long), whilst falling below would land you into another section which might allow for more speed, but may also be more hazardous and less rewarding.

Quintessentially, the design SEGA seems to prefer nowadays limits the player's freedom. This is why I'm doubtful that I'll have reason to look forward to Sonic Colors; although the special abilities and the design catering to it delivers the gameplay diversity that Sonic has been sorely lacking in for a while now, it's still following the footsteps of Unleashed with its linear 3D segments and boostpads augmenting the lack of freedom, which frankly isn't how a Sonic game should be, for all I'm concerned.
 
Blue Warrior said:
...Platforming. It's spelled platforming.

Quintessentially, the design SEGA seems to prefer nowadays limits the player's freedom. This is why I'm doubtful that I'll have reason to look forward to Sonic Colors; although the special abilities and the design catering to it delivers the gameplay diversity that Sonic has been sorely lacking in for a while now, it's still following the footsteps of Unleashed with its linear 3D segments and boostpads augmenting the lack of freedom, which frankly isn't how a Sonic game should be, for all I'm concerned.
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I blame Comunism for my Nazi accent... Or spelling.

Anyways, the PS360 version of Unleashed DID have plenty of paths to choose, but once you selected one, it felt more like a tunnel than a route, if you get what I mean, deathpits in both of your sides woudn´t even allow you to THINK of getting creative with your paths. As it shows in the previous video, too much plataforming, but lack of exploration.
 
Sonic 4 Fanboys

I'm getting tired of the Sonic fanboys saying how much Sonic 4 sucks.
Buying Sonic 1? I say, I always thought the term "Fan" ment sticking and liking something or someone. Isn't Sonic fans SUPPOSE to like Sonic? I see lots of rants on Sonic 4, sheesh some of there voices are a tad annoying. Sonic is suppose to be a All ages game, not a 14+ peice of crap. Homing attack isn't the worst. It's like Sonic's spin-attack-thing in Sonic 3 when pressing jump 2 times. Sonic 1 special stage in Sonic 4, awesome!. Metropolis & a kind of Labyrinth zone is coming back also. I'm actually excited to play it. C'mon guys...it's not the horrible-est game ever that had glitches everywhere and ect.
What's next? Boyscotts for Megaman universe? *Sigh* Well that's all.

Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Trailer - Labyrinth Level
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR1cYsl-tfI

Metal Gear Zone w/ Super Sonic (BETA footage or not..)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2pd0HP4WoQ&feature=related

Splash Hill Zone Act 2 Music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjz5qacq77k
 
The thing is that, because it's a direct sequel, the people expect it to be a sequel. Guess what, that's not actually going to happen. Sonic is SEGA's mascot, not the fanbase's. If SEGA wants Sonic to be floaty, he'll be floaty. If SEGA wants Sonic to have a homing attack, he'll have a homing attack. If SEGA wants Sonic to get high whenever he jumps into a giant ring, that's what will happen.
 
I don't have a problem with any used gimmicks from other Sonic classics. Those fans are judging the game when they didn't actually play it. Gameplay videos aren't the answer. 70% are kids trying to act cool as for 30% are adults expecting it for Sonic to be awesome. Sonic is once again, made for all ages therefore those fans should actually get a life.
 
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