Which level do you like/hate the most in SRB2?
- Thread starter Galefox
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Sure it was. There is nothing remotely challenging about Green Hill Zone at all, except that spike pit of glitched instant death.
I am planning to spruce up GFZ1, but this will not lengthen it at all. The issue with it is that certain things that are important to teach the player aren't dealt with properly. Otherwise it's doing its job fine.
I am planning to spruce up GFZ1, but this will not lengthen it at all. The issue with it is that certain things that are important to teach the player aren't dealt with properly. Otherwise it's doing its job fine.
I have watched many new players start playing SRB2 and get hit to Crawlas. I know this might annoy a lot of you but our control scheme takes a bit of getting used to and we cannot expect someone picking this game up to have any idea how to use FPS-style controls. I have watched people struggle with basic hazards like the bridge over the lake.
Yes, maybe this kind of introduction isn't necessary for YOU, and it's certainly no longer necessary for you, but it is important to have that there and we are not going to make GFZ1 any harder than the piss-easy stage it currently is. The last thing we want is a new player, struggling with the controls on the first level, to get a Game Over, say "fuck this", and quit right there and then because the beginning of the game wasn't easy enough for his skill level.
Yes, maybe this kind of introduction isn't necessary for YOU, and it's certainly no longer necessary for you, but it is important to have that there and we are not going to make GFZ1 any harder than the piss-easy stage it currently is. The last thing we want is a new player, struggling with the controls on the first level, to get a Game Over, say "fuck this", and quit right there and then because the beginning of the game wasn't easy enough for his skill level.
falcon
Ryuujin K
RRREEEEEAAAAAALLLLLYYYYY??????? I gotta start playing it again to make sure.
Anyway, my favorite is ERZ2. Why? Because I like infiltrating bases every once in a while. CEZ and DSZ are the least favorites,and we all know why...>_>
Edit: *points at above post* YA, SEE KIDS! THATS WHY GFZ1 IS SO EASY. FOR ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T USED TO THE 3-D SONIC GAMES OR ARE NEW TO SRB2.
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JigglyWiggly
Member
That eggmanzone, the old one was bettah.
Galefox
Nomad of the sky
THANK YOU!!!
One thing that always annoys me when people discuss levels is when people say "Oh the first level is too easy" No freakin' duh! It's the FIRST LEVEL! If I played Eggrock as my first SRB2 level I'd have quit after shattering my keyboard.
Because I don't play this game as much as others I never really got used to Greenflower so I still spend, what? 12 minutes in it? That, and my nature is to take the path that isn't obvious, I do this even when rushing through levels so I end up getting lost, even if I'm playing as Tails, which I usually am.
I like Arid Canyon Zone because it's fun as Tails, even though I have an unabashed love for flying, sometimes I just want something to fly over that makes me feel like I'm up high, and sometimes it's exciting to know my skills at mastering the ridiculously tight flying are needed to not plumit to my death, so I like this level, and I'd love to play it with someone in co-op because then I'd really have a reason to be awesome at flying.
This is, possibly, a really stupid complaint, but Tails' swimming mechanics are frustrating as crap under water, that's partly why I kept dieing, I eventually had to give up trying to swim and just use the springs, I couldn't even use it to speed up, which I do commonly, also the water has too much of a pull on you, it wasn't nearly this frustrating to control in Sonic 3, or any other Sonic game, and the breath limit is too short.
Deep Sea Zone isn't too long though, I noticed when I got used to Zone 2 which felt like an eternity the first time I kept dieing in it, it was kind of short, but the thing is, there really is no obvious path, and playing as Tails actually makes the level harder because there are those of us that seek to keep our heads above water whereas Sonic is just forced to go with the flow, pun intended, when I finally surrendered to the indea that this is a level that I either have to accept the failure of drowning in or not passing it wasn't that hard, but I do agree, for it's place in the level order you do need a route that has you spending less time in the water.
I would suggest putting Arid Canyon zone before Deep Sea Zone simply because the level causes many Sonic fans to overcome an innate fear bred into us by many a Genesis game - WATER.
By the way, I never did get an answer as to why people don't like co-op.
Before, people were saying that's all people were doing on the MS, but people aren't even doing THAT anymore. I'd like to know why people hate it, at least. I can understand hating Match of CTF, but there's not much that's frustrating about co-op. Unless you get someone who speeds through the level...
What I meant by that is, I don't see what's frustrating about it, and I want to.
Spazzo
Member
Can you be a bit more descriptive and detailed? I really don't know what you're talking about here.
I believe he's talking about Castle Eggman. Granted, the old Act 2 was more playable, but only because the new one suffers from unplayable framerate issues.
I actually don't have a loathing for the new CEZ2, because thankfully this new laptop is awesome enough to handle it without a single stutter.
I actually don't have a loathing for the new CEZ2, because thankfully this new laptop is awesome enough to handle it without a single stutter.
Galefox
Nomad of the sky
Especially since FPS style control isn't at all usual FOR A PLATFORMER.
When I started, I expected a platformer, I expected it to control like a platformer, I didn't expect a game where using the mouse to steer is actually easier than the keypad. But then again, I didn't know how much harder it is to make analog-style movement for a computer. SRB2 took getting used to, going in a straight line was hell for me at first, and I started on the old version, the old version is so much harder to control than the newer version so at least someone's trying to make a platformer play like a platformer.
Personally, I like it that the level isn't flooded with enemies that are hard, I like it that SRB2 doesn't have alot of focus on enemies except in Castle Eggman where there's way too many of them, but maybe when the level is finished they can be replaced with hazards more fitting for the fourth level, if not for the enemies I could buzz through that level AS SONIC. That's pretty bad, but the swing things are a cool gimmick, I think, I actually gave up flying over pits to play with them as Tails, I like figuring out how stuff works in levels.
Arid Canyon's pulleys can screw off though, there's something wrong with the jumping mechanics, they fling you forward and make it hard to grab onto another, I think as Sonic that would be cheap death city. Maybe do something about the jumping without having to move the pulleys, I think their placement is fine but the 'grab box' seems too small and doesn't feel very natural.
Red Volcano os a deathfest of rising lava that makes Hilltop from Sonic 2 look like Tourquise Hill Zone from Sonic Chaos.
But as Tails that leve's really cheap, it needs more going for it besides rising lava traps. And there's way too many rising lava traps, maybe some moving platform action as Sonic would make the level less repetitive. Rising lava is frightening in any platformer but it loses it's effect after a while. The waves of lava near the end made me shit a brick when I saw it, but again, it's not very hard as Tails.
I'm not saying I like a challenge, I don't, in fact, I was relieved to know I wasn't Sonic when I saw that, but there aren't very many things that stop you from flying over everything and it made the level really short. At least one or two things should give Tails a hard time in a level. I know Tails is supposed to be easy mode, which is why he's the first character I'm completing the game with (and he's my favorite... if it's not obvious by my av) but that far in the game, his flying should stop being as cheap.
I think that level would be short as Sonic as well since it has you running through the entire thing and I couldn't see much in the way of alternate paths... Maybe it was because I wasn't looking, I don't know.
If I have to be perfectly honest, Techno Hill Zone Act 2, this was the first time I'd ever played it. I never got past THZ1 because I didn't play SRB2 as often. There were no interesting levels until this update.
And I'm telling you there IS a difficulty spike. If you make the level longer it might be a good idea to add something that's a bit harder around the end, the level feels flat to me, and other than a few places, it just doesn't feel that difficult compared to Deep Sea Zone.
The lag isn't an isolated issue? It killed my computer this morning... I thought it was just my computer. Glad to know it's not just me so someone can fix it.
YOU try navigating under water with a lag! I hate water as is, now just flood the stupid level and then I'll officially hate it more than Deep Sea Zone.
I think I'm getting used to these initials...
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falcon
Ryuujin K
Possibly some Co-Op haters...*shot by everybody on message board* But really, what's wrong with Co-Op?
Hell some might say I'm crazy, I actually prefer Co-Op over Match ANY DAY.
Some comments on the issues of the last two pages:
No, GFZ1 should not be made longer or even harder. It's perfectly fine as it is, and I would never question that. My problem lies with GFZ2. The problem is not that it should be made more challenging or even longer (it's really not that short if you're new to the game). It just needs something that makes it more interesting, either visuals (because they're quite lacking, especially on those huge walls) or some really piss-easy gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless. Something that doesn't make the level harder at all but more fun. The classic games had loops for that purpose, but we can't do that.
Next up is THZ1. I'm glad to hear that it's going to get touched up a bit. My main problem with the stage lie in the beginning section, because it's really bland and consists only of running. This also applies to the left path which consists of running and waiting for a slow platform. It gets way better with the island jumping and steam jets later on, and I'd suggest to expand a bit more on these little ideas and remove some of the flat empty running stretches. This would also remove the minor difficulty spike between Act 1 and 2. Also, I again feel the need to express my hate for Red Crawlas. Make them look more interesting, even if they're gonna behave the same.
I don't see how CEZ has an abundance of enemies. They're actually used in moderation (which is a very good thing) except for that flooding room at the end of Act 2 maybe. ACZ is actually a worse offender in this regard, but even there it's not too much, but actually just fine. The main things CEZ needs are more scenery, more secrets (and that stupid Tails/Knuckles room in Act 2 needs to go badly) and just more content (seeing as it's unfinished). For me, Act 1 looks even more unfinished than Act 2, even if it's actually already complete. It's just that empty.
I also have minor problems with RVZ1. As Galefox said, there is too much lava dodging involved, and it tends to get repetitive, even at its short length (which should be also expanded a little bit). I still don't understand why there are no flamethrowers to be found in the whole level.
Oh, and regarding the coop issue: Single Player with multiple people doesn't add to the experience in most cases. It's only useful if you've just started the game, or if you're looking for secrets. But if you've found all secrets and played the levels to death, coop becomes quite useless.
No, GFZ1 should not be made longer or even harder. It's perfectly fine as it is, and I would never question that. My problem lies with GFZ2. The problem is not that it should be made more challenging or even longer (it's really not that short if you're new to the game). It just needs something that makes it more interesting, either visuals (because they're quite lacking, especially on those huge walls) or some really piss-easy gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless. Something that doesn't make the level harder at all but more fun. The classic games had loops for that purpose, but we can't do that.
Next up is THZ1. I'm glad to hear that it's going to get touched up a bit. My main problem with the stage lie in the beginning section, because it's really bland and consists only of running. This also applies to the left path which consists of running and waiting for a slow platform. It gets way better with the island jumping and steam jets later on, and I'd suggest to expand a bit more on these little ideas and remove some of the flat empty running stretches. This would also remove the minor difficulty spike between Act 1 and 2. Also, I again feel the need to express my hate for Red Crawlas. Make them look more interesting, even if they're gonna behave the same.
I don't see how CEZ has an abundance of enemies. They're actually used in moderation (which is a very good thing) except for that flooding room at the end of Act 2 maybe. ACZ is actually a worse offender in this regard, but even there it's not too much, but actually just fine. The main things CEZ needs are more scenery, more secrets (and that stupid Tails/Knuckles room in Act 2 needs to go badly) and just more content (seeing as it's unfinished). For me, Act 1 looks even more unfinished than Act 2, even if it's actually already complete. It's just that empty.
I also have minor problems with RVZ1. As Galefox said, there is too much lava dodging involved, and it tends to get repetitive, even at its short length (which should be also expanded a little bit). I still don't understand why there are no flamethrowers to be found in the whole level.
Oh, and regarding the coop issue: Single Player with multiple people doesn't add to the experience in most cases. It's only useful if you've just started the game, or if you're looking for secrets. But if you've found all secrets and played the levels to death, coop becomes quite useless.
stoneywagner
SRB2-inactive
I had friends, that when they first played SRB2, they got lost on Greenflower Zone 1.
I did too. I went in a circle at the beginning for 10 minutes. It didn't help either that it was April, and I thought that finding those Easter Eggs was actually the goal of the level. It was my first Sonic game, you know...
Sky The Destroyer
Member
There's lag in CEZ? I never knew that. (Seriously)
Anyways, GFZ1 is way to easy, it should be at least a little more of a challenge, or at least some more length.
Anyways, GFZ1 is way to easy, it should be at least a little more of a challenge, or at least some more length.
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I thought we had been over that a couple of times now. GFZ1 is the first SRB2 stage a newcomer will play. It has to be absolutely piss-easy and short, otherwise they will quit in frustration. SRB2's control scheme is really hard for beginners.
Torgo
Member
Yeah, I NEVER got used to normal 3rd person controls. If I didn't have an analog gamepad with shoulder pads, I probably wouldn't be here today. (Maybe I should consider going back in time and take it away from me :3)
For me, it is either analog mode, or 1st person mode. This is getting a bit off topic though, so I should just stop talking about that.
For me, it is either analog mode, or 1st person mode. This is getting a bit off topic though, so I should just stop talking about that.
Galefox
Nomad of the sky
Same, I like playing with other people, I don't like playing against people... At least, people I don't know. It's just not fun to me when there's seven other people in a level and all they see you as is an easy target, I'm bad at match, and due to the fact that getting good at match would just make more people hate me or go after me, I don't think I want to get good at it.
I think it's more for those people who like it when other people hate / fear / respect them... But I like it when people have a reason to appreciate me, and I'm glad Tails can carry people, because I loved doing that on Sonic 3...
I don't have a problem with discussion in this thread as long as it's about levels, actually, I like it when threads end up being a well of information. =3
I just have to comment though, someone suggested I try music track 15, it's not there.
It depends, really. When you have the option to play online with others, and the only two choices (on this game, at least) are playing with them and getting beat up by them, I think the former sounds much more appealing...
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You only get "beat up" because you're not good enough at Match. The only way to change that is actually start playing. Of course, it will take some time, but after a while, you will find that you'll be the one shooting others.
Galefox
Nomad of the sky
Earlier in that post, I said I sucked at match, and I also said why I don't care to get better at it...
I'm trying not to go off-topic, so I'm not repeating it.
I keep dieing on eggrock zone, at the first part, those stupid crushers are the worst cheap death machines I've ever seen, I died but it barely touched me?
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