What if there was a sandbox style sonic game?

[Miyosaki]

* WARNING! May have Dangerious amount of Fan Raeg! **Apology included**

erm...not sure if that is indeed a bump...But I digress, I do have a rebuttal.

Sonic sandbox game: No plot, no forced Eggman

There is one thing you forgot Ultima: Progression, All games need that at some point, In GTA, there is Progression even when your playing about hi-jacking cars and running from Cops.

My point resides in that even in a sandbox game, there needs to be progression, here's an example of this "No plot" take on things. Let's say you are playing Mario 64, no Stars to collect and No objectives to partake in and no Princess to save...you just run about with no incentive to keep going...So what do you do, just run around, That's why there needs to be Progression.

The fun in some games is knowing your progressing through the game, like in Mario 64 once more, you can see your collection of Stars and know you got those by yourself. I can understand goofing off is fun too, and I do goof off sometimes, but the idea of not being able to make progress while simply playing around seems...boring to me.

o, no. You play it YOUR way. This means you choose to have emeralds or not. You choose to have emerald hunts. You choose to go super. Good/evil... Shadow the Hedgehog

I can understand the case here completely Ultima, but any of this can not be done with...that's right! Progression! =P

Basically saying: Why would Sonic decide to turn evil even though all these years he has been a good guy? There must be plot to help explain the circumstances of his change to evil. In the case of Progression once more; Let's say you decide to go evil on this supposed Sonic Sandbox, and you want to go all out on the civilians, you have at it and partake in this killing spree; But what's this? are you Progressing through other means? what could happen now? In other words: Your still progressing, the plot can still continue, etc. etc., who knows? maybe through Progressing through the game, you can unlock new skills to take down civilians and soldiers alike.

TL;DR: Progression and Plot help keep a game together, I know I may get flack for this whole rant here, but I needed to make a point.


/rant

I apologize for the case of offending users if I sounded perhaps too "Abrasive" with my opinion, I apologize for that; I just wanted to make my point of this slightly unnerving "No Plot" way of things

 

[Virt]

And if you did just go around beatin' up the civilians, the newsguys and the police are just like, "Ohh, it's some other imposter Hedgehog. Sonic's innocent." And such. So you could be a bad guy, but people still think you're good! :3

 

[LongcrierCat]

Does the original Jak & Daxter count as 'sandbox', where the entire game was just one level, split into one big area? If they somehow managed to mix with the Sonic gameplay from SA1/2, that'd be great. Just make it a Mario 64 style collect-a-thon, with long stretches of speed-based gameplay, and platforming challenges to get to the collectibles.

Funny you should mention that game since Yasuhara, a god of Sonic level design and one of as such the Golden Fathers of Sonic (alongside Naoto Oshima and Yuji Naka, the Mother of Sonic is in her own group) created the level design in that game.

And yes, we are taking heavy inspiration from his level design in Sonic CD and Jak and Daxter and applying that to FreeRunner.

You know, this thread should be merged with the Sonic FreeRunner topic, since our fangame is needing critique and I've seen some absolutely brilliant posts in this thread.

Sonic 2 happened to nail one thing that UltimaXtreme forgot is that there is a plot to good sandbox games. You have an entire world whose zones are connected altogether in one huge map, but the thing that makes exploring and poking around in it interesting is dialogue from "Mobians" and seeing how they will react if you do something for or against them. You can either team up with Robotnik, be roboticized and follow his rule, or you can beat his latest evil scheme and gain the respect and admiration of the peoples of Mobius.

That is what differentiates sandbox from a reality simulation. It has a story in place, but you set it in motion, or you further the events in this story however you see fit and it does come to an end, but that's not always up to you because of the opposition of other characters or the arch adversary or his cronies.

But yeah. It will probably be an excellent idea to merge this with the Sonic FreeRunner topic. I'm glad you guys are discussing this because this is helping us formulate an idea of how to make this game.

 

[sims]

But yeah. It will probably be an excellent idea to merge this with the Sonic FreeRunner topic. I'm glad you guys are discussing this because this is helping us formulate an idea of how to make this game.

Not really no, considering hardly any of the posts in this topic have anything to do with your fangame.

 

[BlazingPhoenix]

You know, this thread should be merged with the Sonic FreeRunner topic, since our fangame is needing critique and I've seen some absolutely brilliant posts in this thread.

So, you want this merged just so you can pimp your fangame?... Heh, what a douche.

 

[Monster Iestyn]

You know, this thread should be merged with the Sonic FreeRunner topic, since our fangame is needing critique and I've seen some absolutely brilliant posts in this thread.

What? Most of the posts in this thread don't even have to do with Sonic FreeRunner at all. =/

EDIT: Oh great, double ninja'd! D=

 

[WedgeStratos]

And yes, we are taking heavy inspiration from his level design in Sonic CD and Jak and Daxter and applying that to FreeRunner.

I'll say this RIGHT NOW, I do not, nor will ever support FreeRunner. BlitzSonic's main purpose was to be an open engine for anyone to make changes to it as they please. You may consider making FreeRunner is "your own changes" as a personal engine, but you're wrong. I deny FreeRunner with all my heart, and i shall never talk about it.

TL;DR Don't screw with BlitzSonic. I don't like FreeRunner.

Sonic 2 happened to nail one thing that UltimaXtreme forgot is that there is a plot to good sandbox games. You have an entire world whose zones are connected altogether in one huge map, but the thing that makes exploring and poking around in it interesting is dialogue from "Mobians" and seeing how they will react if you do something for or against them. You can either team up with Robotnik, be roboticized and follow his rule, or you can beat his latest evil scheme and gain the respect and admiration of the peoples of Mobius.

Sonic 2 did not not nail anything. Garry's Mod is a sandbox game, do you see a story in that? No, and even then, they only exist if you make them for machinima. Plots in sandbox games AREN'T necessary. They're fun add a purpose to the game slightly, but like Garry's Mod, no.

But yeah. It will probably be an excellent idea to merge this with the Sonic FreeRunner topic. I'm glad you guys are discussing this because this is helping us formulate an idea of how to make this game.

Backseat moderation powers GO! Don't say you should merge one topic with another. Especially when both f these topics have NOTHING to do with each other. You're basically advertising a crappy idea. Until SRB2MB gets advertised on, Keep topics to themselves. Please.

erm...not sure if that is indeed a bump...But I digress, I do have a rebuttal.

It's a bump.

There is one thing you forgot Ultima: Progression, All games need that at some point, In GTA, there is Progression even when your playing about hi-jacking cars and running from Cops.

That's only because you can't do ragdoll physics or spawn 500 BOMBS and nuke the entire city. They try to make up for that by including a plot. If you could do a lot more than you do in GTA, the plot would never have been needed. Anyone with a bran and an IQ of over 20 would've been wise to get the PC version of GTASA, then they can run SA:MP, or MTA. That's where plots are useless. That's why you don't see many people playing the singleplayer game of GTA4. They have online and always play multiplayer.

My point resides in that even in a sandbox game, there needs to be progression, here's an example of this "No plot" take on things. Let's say you are playing Mario 64, no Stars to collect and No objectives to partake in and no Princess to save...you just run about with no incentive to keep going...So what do you do, just run around, That's why there needs to be Progression.

I'm gonna cut you off right there. I don't need you saying Mario 64 is a sandbox game. It isn't. It never was. It never will be. Don't say another thing about "Mario 64" and "sandbox" here.

I can understand the case here completely Ultima, but any of this can not be done with...that's right! Progression! =P

Basically saying: Why would Sonic decide to turn evil even though all these years he has been a good guy? There must be plot to help explain the circumstances of his change to evil. In the case of Progression once more; Let's say you decide to go evil on this supposed Sonic Sandbox, and you want to go all out on the civilians, you have at it and partake in this killing spree; But what's this? are you Progressing through other means? what could happen now? In other words: Your still progressing, the plot can still continue, etc. etc., who knows? maybe through Progressing through the game, you can unlock new skills to take down civilians and soldiers alike.

TL;DR: Progression and Plot help keep a game together, I know I may get flack for this whole rant here, but I needed to make a point.

Let's see what exactly went wrong here! I never said anything about Sonic having a decision to go evil. If you remember, It was Sonic 2 that made that comment.

And I think it would be cool to have a similar concept of being good or evil, similiar to inFamous; where Sonic could chose his path as well as perhaps have more Abilities to have access to...

Talk to him about it.
Next, why WOULD Sonic decide to attack people? Guess what. We got 3 game that do that. InFamous, Prototype, and Shadow. Keep Sonic off the "evil guy" side.
Progression and plot in a GMOD style Sonic game are not needed. Don't be trying to pull that crap.

So, you want this merged just so you can pimp your fangame?... Heh, what a douche.

Prime example of why merging topics that have NOTHING to do with each other is pointless.

And for all those who were REALLY lazy and skipped this whole thing.
TL;DR I don't like FreeRunner, nobody plays GTA4 unless it's online, GMOD style Sonic game = No plot, kthx.

 

[light the elementa]

I thought about this for some time now! Even though I don't even know HOW to make games... but anyways, it should have preferably the speed from SA2B... and a level-up system, like you level up and unlock abilities, like... well idk lol. And certain abilities, like Homing Attack and Lightdash you could learn by doing storyline missions.

 

[Miyosaki]

Let's see what exactly went wrong here! I never said anything about Sonic having a decision to go evil. If you remember, It was Sonic 2 that made that comment.

I guess I should've said that more like this: Theoretically thinking... *rest of post*

I can see however that Your ideas and Mine conflict on many levels, I accept that. I will just stop so no need for either of us to get a strike. =D

Ontopic: That sounds like it could work, Light-dash will be slightly odd to implement ( not like there would be rows of rings in the air to light-dash on), but the Homing attack could work. =D

 

[LongcrierCat]

So, you want this merged just so you can pimp your fangame?... Heh, what a douche.

Okay, I do admit to that being highly backseat mod of me to say, and I was being a douche, BUT our plan for FreeRunner is to make it a sandbox Sonic game. However, I now know that we should keep these seperate. All I did was notice the discussion being highly helpful to our (Azukara and the team's) project and acted on whim.

Okay, now that is done with and I shall never ever do such a thing again.

I'll say this RIGHT NOW, I do not, nor will ever support FreeRunner. BlitzSonic's main purpose was to be an open engine for anyone to make changes to it as they please. You may consider making FreeRunner is "your own changes" as a personal engine, but you're wrong. I deny FreeRunner with all my heart, and i shall never talk about it.

TL;DR Don't screw with BlitzSonic. I don't like FreeRunner.


Sonic 2 did not not nail anything. Garry's Mod is a sandbox game, do you see a story in that? No, and even then, they only exist if you make them for machinima. Plots in sandbox games AREN'T necessary. They're fun add a purpose to the game slightly, but like Garry's Mod, no.

That's only because you can't do ragdoll physics or spawn 500 BOMBS and nuke the entire city. They try to make up for that by including a plot. If you could do a lot more than you do in GTA, the plot would never have been needed. Anyone with a bran and an IQ of over 20 would've been wise to get the PC version of GTASA, then they can run SA:MP, or MTA. That's where plots are useless. That's why you don't see many people playing the singleplayer game of GTA4. They have online and always play multiplayer.


Progression and plot in a GMOD style Sonic game are not needed. Don't be trying to pull that crap.

And for all those who were REALLY lazy and skipped this whole thing.
TL;DR I don't like FreeRunner, nobody plays GTA4 unless it's online, GMOD style Sonic game = No plot, kthx.

WOW... That was the least helpful thing I've ever read in this topic. And people call me a douchebag.

I've had this on my mind for a long time and I'm saying it now. I'm denying SRB2 as a true Sonic game.

YES, I'm fucking doing it. It's not a real Sonic game. Does it focus on momentum based spinball physic gameplay with slopes and a big focus on platforming that controls naturally? The only thing I see in this game is platforming but that's IT. Graphics may remind me of the classic Sonics but while I play, I keep getting the feeling I'm playing Doom with Sonic in it than a real Sonic game. AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S WHAT IT IS.

Yet you're denying our project because of BlitzSonic? Funny that you hold a Doom Sonic in higher regard than something closer to an actual Sonic game and its values. And as far as the project is concerned, we're actually considering moving to C++ and furthering the programming into advanced terrotory because Blitz cannot satisfy all of our demands and objectives planned for the game. So we just might be making our own personal engine after all, but you don't want to accept our project since it started on Blitz.

And the reason I'm not responding to all of your points is because what you're suggesting isn't a game at all, but rather a "Life of Sonic the Hedgehog" simulator. Who the hell would want to play that game? YOU NEED PLOT AND PROGRESSION. Without it, you will lose the interest of your players. You NEED progression. You start a plot or further the plot in your own way. Sandbox or not, you need a plot and you need progression. 'Nuff said.

Side Note: Man.. I hope Azukara doesn't hate me now.

 

[Mystic]

WOW... That was the least helpful thing I've ever read in this topic. And people call me a douchebag.

Actually, I'd like to note that your post was even LESS helpful. This is the kind of response you'll get for incredibly unhelpful posts.

I've had this on my mind for a long time and I'm saying it now. I'm denying SRB2 as a true Sonic game.

YES, I'm fucking doing it. It's not a real Sonic game. Does it focus on momentum based spinball physic gameplay with slopes and a big focus on platforming that controls naturally? The only thing I see in this game is platforming but that's IT. Graphics may remind me of the classic Sonics but while I play, I keep getting the feeling I'm playing Doom with Sonic in it than a real Sonic game. AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S WHAT IT IS.

I'd really like to note this here, because you're really forgetting something. "Does it focus on momentum based spinball physic gameplay with slopes and a big focus on platforming that controls naturally?" No, I guess it doesn't. Does it focus on momentum-based physics-based gameplay and a big focus on platforming that controls naturally? Yes, actually it does. The only part of classic Sonic we DON'T have is the ramp physics and trigonometry. I'm not saying that isn't a big part of the classic Sonic formula, because it is, but I wouldn't say that we aren't a Sonic game because we don't have one part of the classic formula. By that standard the only Sonic games that are a real Sonic game are Sonic 1, 2, 3K, and CD, since those are the only games that have every part of the formula intact.

And the reason I'm not responding to all of your points is because what you're suggesting isn't a game at all, but rather a "Life of Sonic the Hedgehog" simulator. Who the hell would want to play that game? YOU NEED PLOT AND PROGRESSION. Without it, you will lose the interest of your players. You NEED progression. You start a plot or further the plot in your own way. Sandbox or not, you need a plot and you need progression. 'Nuff said.

Plot? What the fuck are you talking about? You don't need plot to make a game, especially a Sonic game. You do need progression, but progression is only what separates a game from a toy. A lot of sandbox games are simply toys if you remove the progression from it. Remove the progression and you end up with a Sonic toy. Remove the plot and you lose nothing.

 

[MascaraSnake]

I've had this on my mind for a long time and I'm saying it now. I'm denying SRB2 as a true Sonic game.

YES, I'm fucking doing it. It's not a real Sonic game. Does it focus on momentum based spinball physic gameplay with slopes and a big focus on platforming that controls naturally? The only thing I see in this game is platforming but that's IT. Graphics may remind me of the classic Sonics but while I play, I keep getting the feeling I'm playing Doom with Sonic in it than a real Sonic game. AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S WHAT IT IS.

Yet you're denying our project because of BlitzSonic? Funny that you hold a Doom Sonic in higher regard than something closer to an actual Sonic game and its values.

Do you care more about the "Sonic-ness" that about the quality of the game. Quite honestly, I don't care at all if SRB2 is anything like the classics as long as it's good.

 

[Cue]

Nobody cares about your dodgy sandbox game, Greg, if they did they'd be in the thread for it, so kindly keep discussion of it in that thread.

 

[Autosaver]

There is a thread for it. :p But the issue is, this thread doesn't really have a purpose to be merged with it.

. And people call me a douchebag.

Live with it, I've been called names too. If you don't change your posts.(Just look at how many arguments there have been) It'll just get worse and worse.

 

[Wombatwarlord777]

While there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with one's opinion and even, in some cases, their attitude, I'm kind of appalled by the vulgar and entirely mean-spirited name-calling that's been going on in this thread.

 

[Mystic]

While there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with one's opinion and even, in some cases, their attitude, I'm kind of appalled by the vulgar and entirely mean-spirited name-calling that's been going on in this thread.

I suspect what's going on is that because I posted something antagonistic towards Greg calling him out on his behavior, everyone else has decided that's it's free game. That is simply not the case. It's my JOB to call people out on their behavior. Not yours.

 

[WedgeStratos]

I suspect what's going on is that because I posted something antagonistic towards Greg calling him out on his behavior, everyone else has decided that's it's free game. That is simply not the case. It's my JOB to call people out on their behavior. Not yours.

I would argue about how extremely wrong you are, but seeing as you fall under "Administrator" I am forced to abide by the incorrect remark you made.