Tortured Planet v9 (scmrtf_TorturedPlanet-v9.wad)
- Thread starter Fawfulfan
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It's called Fume Shaft Zone.
Just because I executed the idea terribly doesn't mean the idea itself is terrible. I certainly need to find a better texture set, and use it in a coherent manner, but that isn't the same thing as removing the wasteland factor from the level.
I guess you could do a 2.0 CEZ/2.1 THZ-like wasteland with withered flowers and such, but that's about it. Wastelands have the tendency to be huge, ugly and empty, and we don't want that, do we?
I just want to know why you want more of a castle theme on a high tech alien planet.
Considering both the aliens and Robotnik are above those standards.
I say, you should just go with a futuristic and vegetated approach. This can be done by using glass like textures and oddly shaped buildings. (I say oddly shaped buildings because that's more alien-like and different than what people normally see). This also opens room for gimmicks such as the now unused beam-rope pulleys from Spacewalk Zone, teleporters, mazes, reverse gravity, lazer gates, and even water gimmicks. I'm thinking it could use Techno Hill Zone textures. I know it's meant to be a tortured planet, but it looking like a wasteland is not really doing anything to help the visuals. It could still be a tortured planet if you locked up some wisps/alien sprites locked up in barred cells that can be seen by passing players, maybe even some of the buildings could be smashed or have some flames on them (though I think the appearance of Robotnik's badniks gives it away).
Thought this would require a complete recreation of the stage and re-imagining of the stage, rather than the current and boring extended Castle Eggman Zone remake with black stone and acid; so feel free to ignore my suggestion.
Considering both the aliens and Robotnik are above those standards.
I say, you should just go with a futuristic and vegetated approach. This can be done by using glass like textures and oddly shaped buildings. (I say oddly shaped buildings because that's more alien-like and different than what people normally see). This also opens room for gimmicks such as the now unused beam-rope pulleys from Spacewalk Zone, teleporters, mazes, reverse gravity, lazer gates, and even water gimmicks. I'm thinking it could use Techno Hill Zone textures. I know it's meant to be a tortured planet, but it looking like a wasteland is not really doing anything to help the visuals. It could still be a tortured planet if you locked up some wisps/alien sprites locked up in barred cells that can be seen by passing players, maybe even some of the buildings could be smashed or have some flames on them (though I think the appearance of Robotnik's badniks gives it away).
Thought this would require a complete recreation of the stage and re-imagining of the stage, rather than the current and boring extended Castle Eggman Zone remake with black stone and acid; so feel free to ignore my suggestion.
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Did you forget about Castle Eggman Zone?
That could have easily been an old castle that Eggman decided to pick up and use as a base, considering what few adjustments he'd need to do.
Okay, thought I'd give an update on AAZ's progress. I did a few significant things to the zone today. I'm going to divide what I did into two categories, based on the urgency with which SpiritCrusher and Mystic--those blunt voices of neglected truth--have told me to do these things.
Category 1: Why the fuck are you bothering to do this when you should just be mashing the DELETE key?
-A few rooms in AAZ1 contour differently now.
-The boat in the AAZ1 underwater section bobs gently up and down now.
-The square platforms in the final room of AAZ1 aren't quite so square anymore.
-The beginning of AAZ2 has been significantly modified so it's not so needlessly twisty and awkward.
Category 2: Okay, so you mashed the DELETE key. But why the fuck didn't you do MORE?
-In AAZ2, everything between the quicksand-lava room with the two spinning maces and the final room has been deleted. There is a new segment in its place, but it's much shorter, more compact, better looking, and more interesting. Additionally, the cannonball-filled courtyard before that room has been completely renovated so that it actually has some content.
I'm not done. I intend to delete even more. For example, I have my sights set on the majority of those copypaste staircases...
Category 1: Why the fuck are you bothering to do this when you should just be mashing the DELETE key?
-A few rooms in AAZ1 contour differently now.
-The boat in the AAZ1 underwater section bobs gently up and down now.
-The square platforms in the final room of AAZ1 aren't quite so square anymore.
-The beginning of AAZ2 has been significantly modified so it's not so needlessly twisty and awkward.
Category 2: Okay, so you mashed the DELETE key. But why the fuck didn't you do MORE?
-In AAZ2, everything between the quicksand-lava room with the two spinning maces and the final room has been deleted. There is a new segment in its place, but it's much shorter, more compact, better looking, and more interesting. Additionally, the cannonball-filled courtyard before that room has been completely renovated so that it actually has some content.
I'm not done. I intend to delete even more. For example, I have my sights set on the majority of those copypaste staircases...
Are you kidding me? None of that has anything to do with mashing the delete key.
See, Mystic tried to explain it to you often enough. It works like this:
- Delete every room that is not interesting. Just delete it outright. Don't replace it with anything at all. Leave holes in the structure of the level.
- Modify every room that is interesting but flawed in some way.
- Make new content.
- Rearrange everything and add filler hallways where two rooms don't or can't quite connect.
Eh, Spiritcrusher, you missed the point there. The first category was things that were marginal upgrades, while the second category was things that actually involved deleting.
As it is, Fawfulfan, I am entirely for you removing AAZ as it is, and building a new, better one from the ground up. I'd be willing to help you with the design of it, too. The way it stands, AAZ is right now just Mars. With acid. And castles. The thing is, Mars + Acid + Castles isn't a very nice combination. Combining an ugly red dusty planet with UFO's and medieval technology is frankly, pretty silly. It's not very imaginative, beautiful, inspiring, or anything at all. It's just... Yucky.
That being said, you're gonna need a plan for the new AAZ, if you choose to make one.
I think what you need to do is entirely rework the way these aliens work, being disconnected from Earth through they're entire existence. Basically, build a new culture for these aliens. I have quite a few ideas here that I want to share with you, regarding that new culture.
#1: What are these aliens like? Are they big hulking brutes? Are they relatively cute creatures, like the Wisps? Are they green martians, like you have in the current AAZ? What they're like will determine the entire demeanor, and even stature, of everything on the planet.
#2: How different are the standards of architecture and beauty, from what we humans have invented here on earth? What do the buildings look like? Considering this would be very important, because it would help you give an alien look to the buildings of the world, something very important for a society that had years and years to come up with completely different things than humanity has. You could do everything from angular, jutting buildings, to smooth, crystalline structures, to underground towns and cities. (Expanding on that last random idea: Perhaps the solar rays from the planet's star are too powerful for anything to survive on the surface, so the aliens build civilizations inside the world? Maybe there could be giant crystals embedded in the surface of the planet, which serve to filter the intense light, and give it passage into the underworld, where the aliens use it to grow the necessary food?) Of course, that's just an idea I came up with on the spot, there's plenty of other possibilities that you could come up with.
#3: How different is the ecosystem? Don't forget, on a different planet, the conditions of the world would mean for an entire different breed of plants and animals. Although animals certainly aren't much of an option in SRB2, plants certainly are. One of the things AAZ in it's current state is missing, is any form of life, plant especially. I don't care whether it's a ravaged planet or not, there should be some signs of life. Flora is pretty much a necessary part of any life, so there should at least be some evidence of it. Again, there's a lot of possibilities for what you could make the plant life like. Is it giant fungus like plants? Perhaps the plant life is somewhat more alive than it is here? Even the idea of simply changing some colors around slightly would make it seem somewhat alien. Blue trees? Purple horizons? Teal grass?
#4: How has Robotnik's havoc influenced the planet? Many ways you could show this, everything from abandoned buildings, smoking craters, scorched farm fields, and captive aliens. Use your imagination, and I'm sure you can do a lot of interesting things with it.
Perhaps Act 1 could be in a relatively unharmed part of the planet, but throughout it, you would gradually come upon more and more destruction as you followed the path of Robotnik's trail of Armageddon? Then, Act 2 could take place in his master fortress, where he controls the havoc from, and imprisons any that resist his will?
There's just a lot of unexplored imagination and possibilities when it comes to this stuff. I think you should seriously consider doing something new with AAZ.
As it is, Fawfulfan, I am entirely for you removing AAZ as it is, and building a new, better one from the ground up. I'd be willing to help you with the design of it, too. The way it stands, AAZ is right now just Mars. With acid. And castles. The thing is, Mars + Acid + Castles isn't a very nice combination. Combining an ugly red dusty planet with UFO's and medieval technology is frankly, pretty silly. It's not very imaginative, beautiful, inspiring, or anything at all. It's just... Yucky.
That being said, you're gonna need a plan for the new AAZ, if you choose to make one.
I think what you need to do is entirely rework the way these aliens work, being disconnected from Earth through they're entire existence. Basically, build a new culture for these aliens. I have quite a few ideas here that I want to share with you, regarding that new culture.
#1: What are these aliens like? Are they big hulking brutes? Are they relatively cute creatures, like the Wisps? Are they green martians, like you have in the current AAZ? What they're like will determine the entire demeanor, and even stature, of everything on the planet.
#2: How different are the standards of architecture and beauty, from what we humans have invented here on earth? What do the buildings look like? Considering this would be very important, because it would help you give an alien look to the buildings of the world, something very important for a society that had years and years to come up with completely different things than humanity has. You could do everything from angular, jutting buildings, to smooth, crystalline structures, to underground towns and cities. (Expanding on that last random idea: Perhaps the solar rays from the planet's star are too powerful for anything to survive on the surface, so the aliens build civilizations inside the world? Maybe there could be giant crystals embedded in the surface of the planet, which serve to filter the intense light, and give it passage into the underworld, where the aliens use it to grow the necessary food?) Of course, that's just an idea I came up with on the spot, there's plenty of other possibilities that you could come up with.
#3: How different is the ecosystem? Don't forget, on a different planet, the conditions of the world would mean for an entire different breed of plants and animals. Although animals certainly aren't much of an option in SRB2, plants certainly are. One of the things AAZ in it's current state is missing, is any form of life, plant especially. I don't care whether it's a ravaged planet or not, there should be some signs of life. Flora is pretty much a necessary part of any life, so there should at least be some evidence of it. Again, there's a lot of possibilities for what you could make the plant life like. Is it giant fungus like plants? Perhaps the plant life is somewhat more alive than it is here? Even the idea of simply changing some colors around slightly would make it seem somewhat alien. Blue trees? Purple horizons? Teal grass?
#4: How has Robotnik's havoc influenced the planet? Many ways you could show this, everything from abandoned buildings, smoking craters, scorched farm fields, and captive aliens. Use your imagination, and I'm sure you can do a lot of interesting things with it.
Perhaps Act 1 could be in a relatively unharmed part of the planet, but throughout it, you would gradually come upon more and more destruction as you followed the path of Robotnik's trail of Armageddon? Then, Act 2 could take place in his master fortress, where he controls the havoc from, and imprisons any that resist his will?
There's just a lot of unexplored imagination and possibilities when it comes to this stuff. I think you should seriously consider doing something new with AAZ.
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Bringing this up, I'm legitimately curious as to how it is eggman took over 'the planet' so quickly, and why it is he was so reluctant to do so to earth/mobius in the same manor. I mean if the planet is totally destroyed outright, then why was earth/mobius not a viable option to this exact same effort? Because he wants domination over mankind? Why would he not want domination over the alienkind, if he's just killing them outright?
If I may inject Sonic Battle's plotline, at the end of the game, Eggman says outright, "No! Don't destroy the planet! If it's destroyed I'll have nothing to take over!" -- or something to that extent.
I mean really, what EXACTLY is his plan here? And how the fudgenuggets does he do this within the course of ONLY A FEW MONTHS? Did the alien planet have absolutely no military? No wars? No differing beliefs as to cause conflict? No wild animals of its own?
Error 404, sense not found.
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I thought I made it clear what his plan was: conquer this resource-rich planet and subjugate its citizens (which would be easy because the planet doesn't have Sonic the Hedgehog), reestablish his empire there, and then try to take over Mobius as usual. Or at least, I thought that what wasn't explicit was implied.
And I want to assure everyone that the changes I did today were not minor. I outright deleted about five or six rooms from the end of AAZ2 (depending on your definition of a "room"). Yes, I added content after doing that, but:
1. The new segment has decent visuals, competent gameplay and platforming, and a compact layout (basically the antithesis of every other part of AAZ)
2. I had the inspiration for it right then and there. Why should I let an actual idea go to waste if I get one? The last time I did something like this, in AAZ1, it resulted in the deletion of the horrendous twisting narrow passages over identical acid pits and the subsequent creation of the UFO gimmick. And this time, I actually deleted more content than on that occasion.
3. The new content does not in any way take after the layout of the original; it was seriously a straight-up reboot after the previous area was scrapped.
One last thing. Charybdizs, how is AAZ even remotely like Mars? Mars has a red surface and a beige sky. AAZ has a black surface and a red sky. But your long rant actually did give me some inspiration for a new setpiece...
And I want to assure everyone that the changes I did today were not minor. I outright deleted about five or six rooms from the end of AAZ2 (depending on your definition of a "room"). Yes, I added content after doing that, but:
1. The new segment has decent visuals, competent gameplay and platforming, and a compact layout (basically the antithesis of every other part of AAZ)
2. I had the inspiration for it right then and there. Why should I let an actual idea go to waste if I get one? The last time I did something like this, in AAZ1, it resulted in the deletion of the horrendous twisting narrow passages over identical acid pits and the subsequent creation of the UFO gimmick. And this time, I actually deleted more content than on that occasion.
3. The new content does not in any way take after the layout of the original; it was seriously a straight-up reboot after the previous area was scrapped.
One last thing. Charybdizs, how is AAZ even remotely like Mars? Mars has a red surface and a beige sky. AAZ has a black surface and a red sky. But your long rant actually did give me some inspiration for a new setpiece...
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Mars
= Red/Brown rocky planet with nothing interesting naturally on it.
Alien Armageddon/Tortured Planet/Planet With Some Name That I Can't Remember
= Black/Brown rocky planet with nothing interesting naturally on it.
Only a setpiece? ;~;
What you should have done is to create that new part. But not connect it to the rest of the level and build it somewhere entirely else on the map as a separate entity. You're just shooting yourself in the foot by keeping the old layout half-intact.
Monster Iestyn
Fangtastic
Well, this is Sonic video game logic you're questioning, after all.
I made a list of all the songs that I've done, and that still need to be done, today when I was sitting around. It turns out I still need to compose:
Liftoff Gantry Zone Act 1 - This one I'm currently working on, it's coming along good, and sounding nice now, thankfully. I haven't done any major progress at one time, due to business, but every time I sit down at it, I get a few steps farther. It will be ready in a matter of days.
Gritty Columns Zone Act 1 - This one, I haven't started. It's going to be very similar to the second, except some background chord changes, and lots more Sitar action. Well, that's what my current plan is, at least.
Snowcap Nimbus Zone Act 1 - This one I have some interesting plans for. A friend of mine, somewhat musically oriented, somehow got really enthusiastic about this project, and wants to help me compose it. One of these weekends we're gonna hang out, and stay up all night jamming it. I've talked to him about it beforehand, and he definitely has the right ideas about what it should sound like. It won't be my first team composition either, so we should be able to pull it off.
Snowcap Nimbus Zone Act 2 - This will obviously be some sort of remix of the first. Seeing as the first isn't made, I have no clue what it will sound like. :p
Alien Armageddon Zone Act 1 - I'm gonna wait until AAZ gets fixed before I make this one. I just can't find any inspiration from AAZ in it's current mess.
Alien Armageddon Zone Act 2 - Same as above.
Boss Theme - I've most definitely scrapped the idea of making each stage an individual remix. As nice as it would be, I have a hard enough time remixing one of my songs ONCE. :x
Start Theme - Not quite sure what I'll do with this. Suggestions are welcome. ^_^
That really doesn't seem like a lot, at all. If I keep up the pace, it should be finished before the year is over.
Liftoff Gantry Zone Act 1 - This one I'm currently working on, it's coming along good, and sounding nice now, thankfully. I haven't done any major progress at one time, due to business, but every time I sit down at it, I get a few steps farther. It will be ready in a matter of days.
Gritty Columns Zone Act 1 - This one, I haven't started. It's going to be very similar to the second, except some background chord changes, and lots more Sitar action. Well, that's what my current plan is, at least.
Snowcap Nimbus Zone Act 1 - This one I have some interesting plans for. A friend of mine, somewhat musically oriented, somehow got really enthusiastic about this project, and wants to help me compose it. One of these weekends we're gonna hang out, and stay up all night jamming it. I've talked to him about it beforehand, and he definitely has the right ideas about what it should sound like. It won't be my first team composition either, so we should be able to pull it off.
Snowcap Nimbus Zone Act 2 - This will obviously be some sort of remix of the first. Seeing as the first isn't made, I have no clue what it will sound like. :p
Alien Armageddon Zone Act 1 - I'm gonna wait until AAZ gets fixed before I make this one. I just can't find any inspiration from AAZ in it's current mess.
Alien Armageddon Zone Act 2 - Same as above.
Boss Theme - I've most definitely scrapped the idea of making each stage an individual remix. As nice as it would be, I have a hard enough time remixing one of my songs ONCE. :x
Start Theme - Not quite sure what I'll do with this. Suggestions are welcome. ^_^
That really doesn't seem like a lot, at all. If I keep up the pace, it should be finished before the year is over.
Sergeant Brown
An Eggman Fan
I know you already have an idea about the music for Snowcap Nimbus Zone, but maybe you wouldn't mind if I share with you a rather fitting music for an Ice Mountain Zone.
If you feel that it is more fitting than the plan you had, maybe use it as a reference, I dunno.
If you feel that it is more fitting than the plan you had, maybe use it as a reference, I dunno.
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Metal-Rawr
Also known as Teravolt now
Use intruments from this pleaseeeeeee. It fits the barren wastleland which is GCZ1 so damn well.
[Offtopic] Congrats to Brown on the 1500th post. Weee [/Offtopic]
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