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Kart Krew™'s exe mods

My only lingering question about v2- er- Ring Racers ('Tis a joke, for those unaware)...

How will mods be handled? Will Ring Racers have its own fork of the SRB2MB just like Kart, or will it be something else like a new forum hosted elsewhere? I can get the idea that Kart mods and Ring Racers mods would be separated, for RR would most likely require new sprites (and a higher standard for quality, though that is regarding the style of DRRR), new code, etc.
 
My only lingering question about v2- er- Ring Racers ('Tis a joke, for those unaware)...

How will mods be handled? Will Ring Racers have its own fork of the SRB2MB just like Kart, or will it be something else like a new forum hosted elsewhere? I can get the idea that Kart mods and Ring Racers mods would be separated, for RR would most likely require new sprites (and a higher standard for quality, though that is regarding the style of DRRR), new code, etc.
Not something we've worked out the exact logistics of yet, but what I can say is that Kart Releases will stay open and Ring Racers addons will be separate in some capacity, yeah.
 
I'll be real with you here, chief: I ain't interested in V2 anymore. Not after I saw the 3rd anniversary update, and certainly not after I saw all the other junk I've seen after that.

The reason SRB2K is popular, if you somehow didn't know, is because of 2 simple reasons. First, the game is basically a free Mario Kart game for the PC, and the simplicity of its mechanics & controls makes it easy for new players to just pick up the game & start playing. Second, the game has a huge library of mods: characters, maps, gamemodes, and all sorts of other crazy things that keeps the game fresh and keeps players coming back for more. It's an incredibly solid system, I'd even say it's addicting.

All of these great things are what kept me (and numerous other people) playing the game for 5 whole years, And when I saw the first V2 gifs/screenshots in 2019 or so I was totally down for it. The changes shown were all things the game sorely needed: rings & slipstreaming to buff the weaker & less viable light characters, actual single player content in the form of a Grand Prix mode, and even some fun bonuses like a few new items, characters, and maps.

Then the 3rd anniversary update dropped. And oh boy, was I disappointed.

The game had been changed, and sadly, it was for the worse. The tumble mechanics look excessively punishing for no goddamn reason whatsoever, hitlag seems to make every single item in the game more annoying & punishing, a weird new camera that would make anyone horribly seasick after 5 seconds, and Position, a completely idiotic and unnecessary Mario Party mini-game you have to play for god knows what reason before every goddamn race.

It only continues to get worse from here. A trick system that appears to be more of a nuisance than a mechanic, perfectly good tracks getting trashed for no reason (Ancient Tomb? VOLCANIC VALLEY?), HITLAG STACKING, and apparently some kind of "mod embargo" that will be enforced on release (What?!). Honestly, I'm beyond disappointed, and my friends who just recently started playing (and only play the game with me occasionally in a private server) all feel the same way. Not to mention the numerous other people I've seen in various different corners of the internet who are all voicing the exact same concerns. If new players and literal randos online are saying the same things an SRB2K veteran like myself are saying, that's really, really not a good sign for the future of this game.

As far as the new mechanics go, I'd like to discuss them each individually. The tumble mechanic, as I've stated, seems to be excessively punishing for no goddamn reason at all, and it being coupled with like 3 separate items makes it seem like it's going to be the most frustrating & awful game mechanic ever conceived. Getting hit by anything that puts you into tumble seems like it can potentially lock you into it for upwards of 10 seconds, which just seems like overkill. Not to mention that most of the tumble items (Invincibility & Grow specifically) will end up crowding the middle of the pack and make the game utter hell for anyone who isn't in 1st or last place.

Hitlag was a really, really stupid idea from the moment it was conceived. This is a kart racer, not a fighting game. Putting an incredibly jarring, second-long pause after getting smacked by pretty much any item imaginable is an absolutely idiotic idea, especially for a racing game where, generally, nobody wants the game to stop dead in its tracks. People want to keep moving without slowing down for anything. And stopping the game for well over a second just because you got hit by the SRB2K equivalent of a green shell (an extremely common item) is incredibly disorienting and utterly ruins the pacing of the game. I'd also like to mention that claiming that hitlag is "inspired by Kirby Air Ride" is very indicative of someone who hasn't actually played Air Ride for any more than 5 minutes. The game barely has such a mechanic, and when it does it's very short & unnoticeable (and certainly isn't on every single goddamn hit in the game).

I don't even really understand the trick system, honestly. Even after 2 whole videos demonstrating it I still can't make heads or tails of it. These tricks seem like an incredibly distracting QTE that actively punishes you if you fail it, which doesn't seem fair or even all that fun. Tricks in Mario Kart work because of their simplicity, you press a button on a ramp or a bouncy object, and you get a small animation of your character tricking and a small boost afterwards. Simple, well-communicated, and easy to understand. Even then, the old springs were fine, what the hell is the point of replacing them with this convoluted jank? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Don't even get me started on Position. According to the Kart Krew themselves, the standard starting grid was replaced because it was, and I quote:

Excuse my french, but fucking what? The ENTIRE GODDAMN POINT of a starting grid is for it to be static. Every driver starts out in roughly the same spot so nobody gets too far ahead or too far behind when the race starts. Every kart racer in existence does it this way for this very reason. I don't think anyone on the entire planet has a problem with races starting like this outside of the Kart Krew echo chamber. It's a completely idiotic change that completely fails to understand what makes kart racers (and racing in general) so appealing, and will do nothing but make race starts take far longer than they need to and make lightweight characters even more obsolete than they already are. Absolutely fantastic.

Next, I'll discuss the modding situation. Kart Krew has decided, in their infinite wisdom, to change all sorts of stuff related to modding. While some of these changes are good things, like the switch to UDMF for maps, I feel a lot of other changes with V2 are gonna screw up some things with modding, specifically with porting old mods.

The new character sprites do look good, but the issue is you now have 5 years worth of character mods that need to be ported over by the community, and I really doubt that a good majority of modders are just gonna sit down and say "Yeah, I'll go completely resprite every character I made over the span of 5 years that also need more new sprites made for each of them!". Same thing applies to maps, as well. People aren't going to be flocking to remake a whole mountain of maps to accommodate for the new gameplay changes. I won't even touch on the whole "mod embargo" junk because it's such a mindbogglingly misguided & moronic idea that I fail to understand how any sane developer could unironically tell themselves "Yes, this will be a healthy and good idea for this community!"

Lastly, I'll discuss how the community itself has handled all of this. It is absolutely impossible to have any discussion or concerns about V2's mechanics in the official discord server because every single dissenter is met with the same idiotic, childish drivel:

"iT's A nEw GamE"
"yOu HaVeN't PlAyEd It YeT, hOw Do YoU kNoW?"
"yOu WiLl LiKe It, JuSt WaIt!"

(and numerous other passive-aggressive statements in the vain of "NOOOOO MY RACE IS RUINED!!!")

If people don't like the changes, they don't like the changes. Don't force people to like them, don't mock them like petty schoolyard bullies, and certainly don't threaten them with a banhammer if they still don't like them. But hey, maybe it's my fault for expecting civil discussion to take place on discord in the first place, who knows. :wink:

I've really tried to be supportive of Kart Krew and V2 in general before all of this, but the more stupid changes I see, the more I've decided to just stick with V1. You had something really special here, and I'm concerned that all of the punishing & confusing mechanics that come with V2 will drive away players both new and old. The changes seem less concerned with improving the game, rather they're concerned with changing things for the sake of change and drawing in millions of more views for "epic kart compilation dude gets totally owned" videos on YouTube. You can scream about how "IT'S A NEW GAME!!!" until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't change the fact that nobody wanted a new game, people wanted an update to the old game that improves on it and adds a handful of fun new things. Again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Signed, a longtime SRB2K player.
Boy, it sure does feel good to be right after all this time.
 
While I don't hate DRRR like some of my friends, it could be way better. I don't mind the new mechanics, and the new physics take some getting used to. But overall it's a ok racing game. I played through the ring cup, and after the first 3 races and the minigame, I got hit by 1 item and since I didn't know how to start a race before the second one I got a gameover because everyone was way further than me for no reason.
 
Imagine removing two of the key features that made your game popular in the first place.

Not only did Kart Krew remove the easy-to-learn Mario Kart-like gameplay from SRB2K, (which I could forgive, but it still detracts from accessibility)
they made the game have an hour of forced setup before you can play online and load mods.

You took 5 years to develop this thing. We get it.

What a load of bullshit.
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Imagine removing two of the key features that made your game popular in the first place.

Not only did Kart Krew remove the easy-to-learn Mario Kart-like gameplay from SRB2K, (which I could forgive, but it still detracts from accessibility)
they made the game have an hour of forced setup before you can play online and load mods.

You took 5 years to develop this thing. We get it.

What a load of bullshit.
After playing the game for a bit, I feel like I should actually say something a bit more constructive.

Before I get to the meat, yes. I still think how they did the unlockables is completely stupid.
I feel like after a (much less exhaustive) tutorial, letting the player have the ability to play online, mod the game, and in addition, giving them not only the color you choose in the tutorial, but also the color of every character you unlock would be a much better way to have the game start off.
Would that be perfect? No, but I feel like that would be the best solution Kart Krew would (and probably should) choose.

Now then, the overall look and feel of the game is awesome. But the title screen music being the same as Karts really throws me off and it just straight up feels unfitting.

The actual mechanics themselves are pretty sound too. But the tricks are underused to a horrible fault. I haven't played one actual track with trick-pads or whatever they're called in them. The only mechanic I dislike is the rings. But specifically where there's a hill that's too steep and I don't have an amount of rings that allows me to scale it. I know that's supposed to encourage you to always have some, but it happens a lot more than it should.

Not to mention the controls NEED a SEGA Saturn pad, though. I was using a modified version of the keybinds I use for Kart, and it was horrible. But when I started using a Saturn controller, it all really started making sense. Although, can't imagine why.

I'll probably drip-feed more of my thoughts as I play the game.
 
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Before I get to the meat, yes. I still think how they did the unlockables is completely stupid.
I feel like after a (much less exhaustive) tutorial, letting the player have the ability to play online, mod the game, and in addition, giving them not only the color you choose in the tutorial, but also the color of every character you unlock would be a much better way to have the game start off.
Would that be perfect? No, but I feel like that would be the best solution Kart Krew would (and probably should) choose.

Now then, the overall look and feel of the game is awesome. But the title screen music being the same as Karts really throws me off and it just straight up feels unfitting.

The actual mechanics themselves are pretty sound too. But the tricks are underused to a horrible fault. I haven't played one actual track with trick-pads or whatever they're called in them. The only mechanic I dislike is the rings. But specifically where there's a hill that's too steep and I don't have an amount of rings that allows me to scale it. I know that's supposed to encourage you to always have some, but it happens a lot more than it should.
This is a good example of how critique of the new game should be approached. If anyone thinks the game is bad in one way or another, then they need to explain why and what can be done to improve the gameplay and user experience. The developers can't do anything otherwise if they have to make guesses.
 
I keep seeing complaints about visual overstimulation giving players headaches.

What did you expect from the people who foisted Koda on you for years? They don't care about epileptics and they don't care about eye strain. This game was made out of spite.
 
I have to be honest, the more I played Ring Racers the less I liked it. I really wanted to like it, but I can't shake this feeling of disappointment. I'll list off my thoughts and feelings in no particular order.

To start off, item play is ridiculous. There are about 3 items that are worth thinking about at all, and one of them is completely busted. None of them have any real counterplay. Nonetheless, all of them are worth dropping without a second thought just so you can use your overpowered ring boost. The bumper item needs to be either toned down immensely or removed. The game just stops being fun the moment someone drops a bumper on the track. You lose all control of your character the moment you touch it and get sent God knows where.

Speaking of, just remove tumbling. Remove it. It's not fun at all. Which playtesters enjoyed watching their character get flung a quarter of a lap backwards, unable to do anything but curse themselves for daring to not see a tiny green object in the middle of a chaotic race track? Ring sting needs to be way less punishing as long as tumbling is in the game. The smallest collisions will make your character roll around like a ping pong ball.

Item boxes turning into ring boxes makes no sense and only serves to make it harder for players lagging behind to catch up. Why not just let item boxes and ring boxes be separate things? Or better yet, give players who clearly need a helping hand both?

The controls are... fine, but the game doesn't help you learn them at all. Why the Sega Saturn buttons? Just show me the keys I binded them too so I don't have to go to the profile menu to refresh my memory every session.

The instawhip needs its own button to be useful. No one is gonna ditch their items and all their rings for a melee attack with frankly pitiful range and some ring debt just because. It should be instant with a cooldown instead of taking a second to charge up. While you're at it, you might as well split rings and items into separate buttons so I don't have to ditch my items to have a chance at getting anything higher than second to last place.

The spindash is an obvious crutch for bad level design. Either make resistance from upwards slopes less severe or don't put slopes that steep in maps. No one is going to want to Strategically Come To A Full Stop For 3 Seconds to clime a really steep hill.

Grand Prix is flat out not fun because the bots cheat hard as fuck. You can see some recordings in the KK Discord server. The rubber banding is ridiculous. How am I supposed to counterplay against cheaters?

I don't have anything negative to say about the art style and music. It's very consistent and stylish in that regard. I love the detailed lighting effects in some maps and the emissive textures, you have to show us what you did to the engine to enable those at some point. The dialogue in the tutorial is cute too.

I don't really mind colours being unlockable. Though, there should be an "are you sure" prompt when you pick your first one because the game doesn't tell you which one you picked until you pick it and colour blindness is a thing.

All in all the game in its current state needs a massive balance pass and some serious rethinking. The gameplay mechanics are the weak point, but it's a very weak point. I hope this project can move forwards and become somehing truly incredible.
 
the only thing I will say... I don’t know how to describe it, but I think that this game was created not from devs to players, it's from devs to devs
 
What did you expect from the people who foisted Koda on you for years? They don't care about epileptics and they don't care about eye strain. This game was made out of spite.
They care. There is a warning at the beginning of the game and they don't like people posting flashy GIFs in the Discord server.
Although, I can attest to getting a headache while playing the game.

the only thing I will say... I don’t know how to describe it, but I think that this game was created not from devs to players, it's from devs to devs
It does seem like they prioritized making the game enjoyable for themselves more than making it fun for as many people as possible.



This game needed semi-public beta testing.
 
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