SonicHacker141
battle network-er
i'll just take the blame for that.That's literally because the thread is about the workshop, even when where on the 40th page. It's crazy to think how it went to 2023 to 2024 in this thread.
i'll just take the blame for that.That's literally because the thread is about the workshop, even when where on the 40th page. It's crazy to think how it went to 2023 to 2024 in this thread.
To get a basic understanding of what you just said I'm gonna ask this, which do you prefer, WS or MB?So the permissions debate is still raging on to this day, huh? I have a lot to say about this based on the past of a different modding community. Unlike the SRB2 modding community, this community had (and still does have) an artist shortage so 99% of the mods made for it were entirely code-based, using sprites from other commercial games when necessary (Which was often). Despite this, the permissions logic persisted with people claiming that any edits of mods or even custom content that used small bits of code from another mod were deemed blasphemous. Any artist who didn't learn to code themselves would have to "sign an exclusivity deal" with one of the established coders or get shunned (or worse, permabanned), It reached a point where a modder would upon leaving the community declare someone as their "spokesperson" to continue enforcing the anti-portleg/bugfix/whatever rule despite them dramatically announcing their absence. These modders claimed that they set up the policies to prevent a surge of bad mods from releasing that would ruin the base game's reputation, but in reality, it was a fear that someone would outdo them using their own ideas, which is exactly what happened when someone rose to admin status while secretly disagreeing with the permissions logic and slowly disassembled those rules for an alternative ruleset inspired by Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike. Of course, the situation here is different as there are a lot of people spriting their OCs as SRB2 mods but I believe the coding side of things should be as open-source as the base SRB2. I also believe that "others may not maintain my submission, even in my absence." should not be an acceptable policy if 2.3 onwards are not completely retro-compatible with mods from 2.2. As for the community I mentioned earlier? They have entered a new renaissance age with the low-effort mods and mods that don't credit the original artists or coders being naturally weeded out of the message board while the high-effort mods get showered with praise.
Neither, but I think the MB has the potential to be the one I prefer if it changes its policies based on the suggestions in my post.To get a basic understanding of what you just said I'm gonna ask this, which do you prefer, WS or MB?
to get a basic understanding of the message, you can just... read it?To get a basic understanding of what you just said I'm gonna ask this, which do you prefer, WS or MB?
Coding a mod is not of the same caliber as making a modification to the base C code that SRB2 runs on, so having mod authors essentially follow the same license as the source code itself is a strange move to make.I believe the coding side of things should be as open-source as the base SRB2. I also believe that "others may not maintain my submission, even in my absence." should not be an acceptable policy if 2.3 onwards are not completely retro-compatible with mods from 2.2.
That's an understandable fear, but what can you do? Lay down the ground work for something, and if it works, someone will want more of it. And people will want to make their own take of [your thing]. Which is fine! That's how you get innovation.These modders claimed that they set up the policies to prevent a surge of bad mods from releasing that would ruin the base game's reputation, but in reality, it was a fear that someone would outdo them using their own ideas
Coding a mod is not of the same caliber as making a modification to the base C code that SRB2 runs on, so having mod authors essentially follow the same license as the source code itself is a strange move to make.
Authored stuff belongs to the author, and it should be up to them to decide if they want to make it open source or not.
It should also be up to the author if they want their mod to exist in a newer version of the game.
Maybe the game does some physics changes that they don't like, or maybe there are a lot of breaking changes that require precision to make work. Maybe there were policy changes that the author does not agree with (which would be stupid petty, mind you).
Whatever the happening is, the author should be the one to decide where to take the mod next and how to tackle it, if they want to, instead of someone making a port because they want a port.
It may suck for someone if they were expecting [popular mod] to work in 2.3, but maybe there's an underlying reason for it that isn't being chalked up as "author lazy".
That's an understandable fear, but what can you do? Lay down the ground work for something, and if it works, someone will want more of it. And people will want to make their own take of [your thing]. Which is fine! That's how you get innovation.
It just gets muddy when they want to use your own work, usually with no regards for how you feel about it. Or how would it even work if your mod works in such an esoteric way that the new guy will have to make so many bandaid patches it would make the code stupid underperformant. I am exaggerating by the way, but that's an example.
It takes a little bit of effort to make your own version, but you get free knowledge on why are things like they are.
This shouldn't be necessary.If the author wants to be the one to decide where to take the mod next once 2.3 comes around, they should stay active in the community when the new version comes around so that they can make a port that does their vision justice. If such a thing would take a while and remaining silent runs the risk of portlegs, then a WIP thread for the official port should be made so people know that an official port is planned.
If the modder turns out to be "stupid petty" but also talented [...], their pettiness is called out and things usually get worked out. If things don't work out, they get banned for reasons similar to Mystic getting banned resulting in either a Mystic Realm Community Edition situation or the exiled modder making their own message board to keep their strict rules intact.
Why would you need to "stand on the shoulders of giants"?Keeping a mods code walled off from any form of further modification prevents people from being able to stand on the shoulders of giants.
It's the Mugen community, while technically an engine and not a game. Editing a character to play completely differently is a common practice there as long as credit is given and effort is put in. Large chunks of character code by other authors are considered universal assets for certain playstyles. Check the Mugen Fighters Guild Discord server and ask about the horror stories of the permission era of the late 2000s if you want more information.Consider mentioning the name of the game whose community you're alluding to. It's easier to check the community with our own eyes instead of being given surface information of it, you know.
Hi, Hacking Contest judge here. I'm not sure why you decided to bring the Hacking Contest into this at all. If you are going to enter solely to spite some people we have no relation to, to shine a light on the SRB2 Message Board's "problematic" community (for lack of a better term), or to prove some other kind of point, don't bother. We do it for the fun. We don't want to be used as a cudgel against other Sonic communities and especially not a fan-made content community. That's not what it's for.But I know an authority I can trust, a tradition beloved & respected within the entire Sonic community. People will gather yearly in hordes to watch it, to celebrate the creativity of the entire fandom. Perhaps even an imploding & radio-active community will seek to work together in order to avoid humiliation if they were forced to have to compete for the eyeballs. You know where this is going.
The Sonic Hacking Contest now allows mods from newer Sonic games. That includes established fan games like Sonic 3 A.I.R. It would be real unfortunate if I put the community under a spotlight by entering it with what I have, now would it? Let me leave you with that little thought, let it fester real nicely into a concoction of either renaissance of passionate insanity or disastrous ruin for this community.
I was intending on trying to enter it anyway years ago, this little tussle is less relevant to that decision. The initial reason was to complete a promise I kinda made about making certain something specifically to pay respects to a content creator that served as that little ray of light during a certain time of my life. I would have helped the SRB2 community in return, to both help introduce new blood here & to have SRB2 claim its rightful place as one of the games featured in the contest.Hi, Hacking Contest judge here. I'm not sure why you decided to bring the Hacking Contest into this at all. If you are going to enter solely to spite some people we have no relation to, to shine a light on the SRB2 Message Board's "problematic" community (for lack of a better term), or to prove some other kind of point, don't bother. We do it for the fun. We don't want to be used as a cudgel against other Sonic communities and especially not a fan-made content community. That's not what it's for.
For the record, we don't allow SRB2 mods anyway (at least, not at the moment).
Sorry, I admittedly get confused when reading long messages like this. I'm assuming something happened to make you upset?Since the lovely "friends" who had a little tussle with me months ago decided to reveal their true faces to me while refusing to silence me then & there, let me give you the bluntest of regards when it comes to this.
SRB2 MB is Tumblr, and WS the 4chan, and the conflict you have now is the end result of neither having community leaders who would do their hardest to salvage the situation. As a result of that, you have all the close circles and wonderfully opinionated & often rather self-absorbed people that come with it looking to bend the rules in their favor while the moderators who walked in to the job with the mindset of following orders get used as tools for said disputes like doormats people wipe their shoes on.
In particular, it is very ironic that despite the anti-Mystic faction that is currently in power gaining their revenge & in doing so fulfilling my desire for vengeance, we are still dealing with 2.0 & 2.1-related laundry nearly two decades later. The WS itself is just another faction among a multitude factions in this little game of close circles, the laundry of which has probably ruined the experience of so many new people who would have wished to be part of the SRB2 community, including me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And then there's the whole right to re-use conundrum that I feel is merely a front to the personal disputes. Let me blunt about this in a way that applies universally: If the author has no plans of supporting a particular work, then they have no right to hoard the intellectual property associated with it. If you want the protections, you should show active intentions of doing something with said intellectual property you hold on to. There are way too many punks on the internet who will abandon their works for years, resulting in them becoming broken clunkers that actively hinder every work that relies on those building blocks to function... a problem other people often couldn't fix because couldn't get consent from a person who has left the community.
There is only one person I know who has a legitimate claim under these principles regarding their stuff being ported without their consent, Glaber, as he has claimed that his friend was looking for someone to do the porting for him for a while, something that would take time. Whose friend is he again? That's right, GoldenShine, another honest person who has been dragged to hell & back by these forums. They're the creators that you honestly do not deserve to have around here to listen & deal with your nonsense, the real community leader material.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now I am fully aware that you will disregard my words. After all, you regard me as "nothing", as just another speck of dust under your shoes. But that just means I have no reason to respect you as an authority either. From my view, you have always treated me like dirt from the beginning... the only difference is you are finally openly admitting that after a whole decade of me being around in one form or another. I struggled for who knows how long to get things done, playing by your rules, and got nothing for it.
It's much like the life in the EU, constantly filled with endless middlemen who put endless paperwork between you and the fun stuff.
But I know an authority I can trust, a tradition beloved & respected within the entire Sonic community. People will gather yearly in hordes to watch it, to celebrate the creativity of the entire fandom. Perhaps even an imploding & radio-active community will seek to work together in order to avoid humiliation if they were forced to have to compete for the eyeballs. You know where this is going.
The Sonic Hacking Contest now allows mods from newer Sonic games. That includes established fan games like Sonic 3 A.I.R. It would be real unfortunate if I put the community under a spotlight by entering it with what I have, now would it? Let me leave you with that little thought, let it fester real nicely into a concoction of either renaissance of passionate insanity or disastrous ruin for this community. And I would get to fulfill a little promise I made to the man that served as a ray of light during my early adulthood days of apathy while doing so.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Either way, my relationship with MB ends here. And if I already had a reputable neutral party to replace you warring band of partisans with, I'd also end my relationship with WS as well. I'm loyal to people, not some factions that try to twist my words & coerce me to do their dirty work.
I'll give my respects to Amperbee & Shanon on my way out, since they were the only people who tried to help me, GoldenShine for alerting me to the problems within this community & DoMikoto from WS for showcasing the 0.85 version of my first modded character, allowing it to reach a bigger audience than it would have otherwise.
I wish I could have interacted with these people with my real personality instead of relying on this dissociative mask to do so, but that is that, this is this. You can't get attached to people in these kinds of environments or have any expectations, doing so will ultimately break you in the modern day.
There is only one person I know who has a legitimate claim under these principles regarding their stuff being ported without their consent, Glaber, as he has claimed that his friend was looking for someone to do the porting for him for a while, something that would take time. Whose friend is he again? That's right, GoldenShine, another honest person who has been dragged to hell & back by these forums. They're the creators that you honestly do not deserve to have around here to listen & deal with your nonsense, the real community leader material.
what de fuck are you even on about?anti-Mystic faction
No, I was actually very patient with your wildly misinformed and accusatory rants in the past, as evidenced by this thread here (for anyone else reading who wants to know I'm not lying).Now I am fully aware that you will disregard my words. After all, you regard me as "nothing", as just another speck of dust under your shoes. But that just means I have no reason to respect you as an authority either. From my view, you have always treated me like dirt from the beginning... the only difference is you are finally openly admitting that after a whole decade of me being around in one form or another. I struggled for who knows how long to get things done, playing by your rules, and got nothing for it.
41. Freakin. Pages.the workshop is basically an unofficial mb where you can submit portlegs
View attachment 90980
it wasn’t really meant for russians, it was meant for banned users/users who steal code or make portlegsIf the SRB2 WS was meant for Russians, then why didn't they just keep it in the same country? Because it's obvious that place wasn't meant for the rest of us. We could then have a separate site for SRB2 Small Mods/Portlegs.
But isn't that illegal in some sort of way?it wasn’t really meant for russians, it was meant for banned users/users who steal code or make portlegs
I guess, but some people think that it's ok cuz it's a fangame.But isn't that illegal in some sort of way?