SP Moves Enjoyer
Member
Thats... basically the same thing. I don't know what your trying to say here.
and both of those are because of things the creators have done. have we done anything to trigger this? no. so this still applies.
What in the world is SRB2 Workshop?
- Thread starter Void Animates
- Start date
and both of those are because of things the creators have done. have we done anything to trigger this? no. so this still applies.
at the same time Sega can't just use fan works without permission either.
Hammerhead
a mario.
um, can't they?
No. They can't. They got caught using Nibroc's 3d model renders of sonic characters and had to stop, and they got caught in another case of art theft when they used a piece of a piece of fan art of Princess Sonia for a playing card on a Casino Track in Sonic and Sega All Stars racing that got replaced in the versions that could be updated as well as being replaced in every game the track was in after it.
Heck, Even Capcom got caught using fanart without permission to promote Megaman 10.
Heck, Even Capcom got caught using fanart without permission to promote Megaman 10.
Sls64LGamingBro
An ordinary coder...
I mean nintendo has done a mistake with someone's mario fanart (which almost looks the same as the official one), inculding nickeloden (with a spongebob fanart being used).
Sandwichface
Trash Bin connoisseur
No, they aren't.
One implies Sega has explicitly stated they allow fans to make whatever they want and won't do anything about them while the other implies that Sega simply doesn't care enough to do anything about fan projects unless they absolutely have to.
Doesn't matter what the circumstances are. What matters is that Sega has taken down fan projects in the past, and that Sega's stance on fan projects isn't as clean cut as most people think it is.
Sls64LGamingBro
An ordinary coder...
Unless if there trying to sell it for money across the world, SEGA might go all in out to make them shut down completely. Just like how Nintendo does it, because they don't treat fans happy for making fangames. Expect when there excited for a direct, or happy about there games.
The weird danger of making any fangame is that at any point you may be shut down because you fall under the wrong eye of the owner of the work you're using.
I'm not on STJr dev, but I know from history they had discussed the possibility of this in the past and jokingly said "if Sega DMCAed us we would make Hinote Robo Blast 2" which is funny. I can't remember if Hinote's creator was even ondev at that point. I know the same is true with Kart though. It would suck to be DMCAed, but we'd comply for the twofold reason of "well, they of all people have the right to tell us no" and "who wants to make a fangame for people who don't like it anyways?"
But yeah, it is EXPLICITLY not true that Sega has given a blanket approval to fangames. I hear that said sometimes, and it's always sourced to a social media manager for Sega (iirc). A social media manager. AKA, "someone who absolutely does not have the authority to grant that."
The thing I'd like to remind everyone in this thread about is that the concept of "you can mess with it unless they specifically tell you not to" is already how the rules function in this community.
Something I never see get brought up here, which is really important to remember though, is to remember how many mods have no copyrighted material in them, period. Thus, they couldn't be even called out for copyright infringement on any grounds, even by a real lawyer. If you did for some reason want to make the distinction of "well, they don't respect Sega's ownership so why should I respect theirs?" for some mods, you'd still have to leave others out of the picture.
I'm not on STJr dev, but I know from history they had discussed the possibility of this in the past and jokingly said "if Sega DMCAed us we would make Hinote Robo Blast 2" which is funny. I can't remember if Hinote's creator was even ondev at that point. I know the same is true with Kart though. It would suck to be DMCAed, but we'd comply for the twofold reason of "well, they of all people have the right to tell us no" and "who wants to make a fangame for people who don't like it anyways?"
But yeah, it is EXPLICITLY not true that Sega has given a blanket approval to fangames. I hear that said sometimes, and it's always sourced to a social media manager for Sega (iirc). A social media manager. AKA, "someone who absolutely does not have the authority to grant that."
The thing I'd like to remind everyone in this thread about is that the concept of "you can mess with it unless they specifically tell you not to" is already how the rules function in this community.
This misses the point, because what we actually have here in the community is "You can edit people's work as long as you weren't explicitly asked not to." It's right here in the submissions rules, Rule 12. (We do ask that people see if the author has any feelings on it if they can, but only because it's a relatively small community and it's not out of the question to try) That's an equal situation to where fangames themselves stand, "We make the fangame because we weren't explicitly asked not to." So there is no "it's okay but only when it's me" stuff going on here. At least, not on any official level LOL. Can't speak to some of the responses in this thread, people say all sorts of things.
Something I never see get brought up here, which is really important to remember though, is to remember how many mods have no copyrighted material in them, period. Thus, they couldn't be even called out for copyright infringement on any grounds, even by a real lawyer. If you did for some reason want to make the distinction of "well, they don't respect Sega's ownership so why should I respect theirs?" for some mods, you'd still have to leave others out of the picture.
DylanDude
Overeager Raposa
The MB doesn’t put hurdles on where you can get and use mods. You can download and edit whatever you want, you just can’t POST whatever you want without restriction. This is an invalid comparison.
BomberBlur07
Member
Sure, you don't put hurdles where we can use mods in single player. But Multiplayer is another story. I've seen reports that people are getting banned because they're using mods from the Workshop or GameBanana.
This may seem like an apples-to-oranges comparison because Bethesda games don't have online (unless it's Fallout 76) but even outside of multiplayer, the MB-focused community actively witchhunts anyone who dares to support alternative sites, which is not the case for Bethesda.
DylanDude
Overeager Raposa
Those reports aren’t true, people get banned for mods that break the MS rules, but hosting with mods from unofficial forums isn’t among those rules. It’s mods with STOLEN CONTENT specifically that will get you banned, IF the original creator reports it.
The fact that “stolen content” and “Workshop mods” are so ubiquitous might be a sign that there’s an issue with the latter.
This is also only for servers on the public MS. Private servers are under no rules at all, as you would expect.
crystallinegazer
she/her
Personally, I'm a bit neutral on the Workshop. The only reason I've gone on there in the past really is just because there are a few cool map packs, but I'm not really interested in anything else there. It's nice that there's another place for people to upload pretty high quality mods, but... just as everyone's else said a million times, the portlegs and edits are an issue.
In my opinion I don't think it makes that much sense to get mad over portlegs. Either the mod is never going to get ported because it's from Final Demo or some other ancient version of the game, or it's a mod that's already getting a port. I can see why it'd be demoralizing to mod makers for their mods to get ported before the official one is finished, but at the same time the official port is pretty much guaranteed to be better. As far as I know, none of the portlegs on there add anything. They're just straight ports from 2.1 to 2.2. Though this hasn't happened to me, so I don't think I have a place to comment on it anyway.
Edits I understand getting upset about, though. Taking mods, adding or removing a few things, and then uploading it again saying it's better is just a dick move, honestly. It's like if I were to take someone's sculpture, slap something I think is neat on it, and only then call it art once I've modified it. Just be happy with what you're given. If you're going to edit a mod, don't spread it around or make it an additional file separate from the original mod (for example a .lua file giving Silver the ability to blow things up without editing Silver's .pk3 file).
The only experience I've really had with people stealing mods on the Workshop was someone reuploading Milne v1... for some reason. No idea why someone would want to play with such a bad version of the character, but go off I guess. I asked for the reupload to be taken down, was told by the person who did it that 'they'll think about it', and never got a message from them again. Mods still up there. A little annoying (and mostly confusing), but in the end I'm not bothered much. Go ahead, play with mid, I don't care.
In my opinion I don't think it makes that much sense to get mad over portlegs. Either the mod is never going to get ported because it's from Final Demo or some other ancient version of the game, or it's a mod that's already getting a port. I can see why it'd be demoralizing to mod makers for their mods to get ported before the official one is finished, but at the same time the official port is pretty much guaranteed to be better. As far as I know, none of the portlegs on there add anything. They're just straight ports from 2.1 to 2.2. Though this hasn't happened to me, so I don't think I have a place to comment on it anyway.
Edits I understand getting upset about, though. Taking mods, adding or removing a few things, and then uploading it again saying it's better is just a dick move, honestly. It's like if I were to take someone's sculpture, slap something I think is neat on it, and only then call it art once I've modified it. Just be happy with what you're given. If you're going to edit a mod, don't spread it around or make it an additional file separate from the original mod (for example a .lua file giving Silver the ability to blow things up without editing Silver's .pk3 file).
The only experience I've really had with people stealing mods on the Workshop was someone reuploading Milne v1... for some reason. No idea why someone would want to play with such a bad version of the character, but go off I guess. I asked for the reupload to be taken down, was told by the person who did it that 'they'll think about it', and never got a message from them again. Mods still up there. A little annoying (and mostly confusing), but in the end I'm not bothered much. Go ahead, play with mid, I don't care.
Where in the world did you hear that? The only reason I ever went on the Workshop in the first place was because I joined a server with maps you could only find on there and as far as I'm aware, the server is still up.
Banjo268
Certified Bonified Idiot
I COMPLETELY agree with you on this. Your ancient-ass mod 9/10 isn't gonna be ported to 2.2 by you, so let people who actually enjoyed your work do it for you. As for the argument of "theres a port WIP why r u porting the old one", I treat those type of portlegs as demos. Treat them as a precursor to what the dev is cooking up behind the scenes for you. I really don't get why people have issues with portlegs of a WIP 2.2 port. It's not like they're taking credit for it, are they? And honestly, that should just be a Submissions rule: Mandatory credit given for specifically ports to 2.2. "b-but what if they say its their own mod???" We have moderators for a reason folks.
I actually like this example here, showcasing the issue that people slap portlegs with. I honestly have not seen any cases with portleggers taking credit for a port (if there is examples pls link them), so I feel that this specific arguement doesn't work.
That's because the Red Sphere section practically violates the reusability rules, so it's deemed really stolen, and also consider that some people (maybe most) consider the WS as stolen content.
While I understand to respect people's wishes, what if it was reusable? Then suddenly its not, and now your entire mod is ruined. They were perfectly ok before, but now they changed their mind on a whim, without any communication to me, the modder of his mod. How is that fair? Also, I'm gonna stop taking Sandwich's points on the errors of the reusability system, just watch the vid right here. And before I get a reply saying he doesn't give a shit on "artists", WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO. I say this strictly for context, as this points out a lot of things wrong with the reusability system.
DylanDude
Overeager Raposa
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this prohibited?
SP Moves Enjoyer
Member
Can confirm that you cannot do this, you literally can't just change if your mod is reusable or not if its already released. That would be stupid.
I'm pretty sure sandwich face made a point about this in his video he did about reusability and id assume that's were he got it from, if that's the case then yall need to do some research LOL
RitzyJuice885
make believes reborn
you literally cannot do this lmao
SP Moves Enjoyer
Member
obviously the moderators wouldn't allow this, considering this has never happened before lol
Banjo268
Certified Bonified Idiot
I did do research. I understand why fans hate portlegs. I even disagree with Sandwichface on some things.
This was just taken straight from his vid that I linked already. I'm getting sick of these arguments.
Why can't we solve this properly? Just get STJR, the WS mods, and HAVE A CONVERSATION ON WHY THEY DO WHAT THEY DO. I DON'T CARE THAT THE WS DOES PORTLEGS. JUST HAVE A CONVERSATION ON A PRIVATE VOICE CHAT OR CHAT ON DISCORD TO DISCUSS THIS CRAP. I LEGITMATELY CANNOT STAND THIS COMMUNITY DIVIDED ANYMORE.
Dingus McNingus
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Are we still allowed to download mods from another website like gamebanana or srb2 ws?