Suggestions

[Prime 2.0]

I've heard a few people say that they don't like mapcredits. I understand where they're coming from, but I think it's still a very useful feature.

That said, I think there should be a console command to disable the mapcredits display.

 

[Prime 2.0]

I dunno, I still find it's kinda silly that you can't hurt other players with a spindash in a Sonic game of all things. Hell, I don't even care if it's impractical in a firefight (though a direct hit with an elemental shield roll proves it does have applications), it still would've been nice to have the option at least - hell, it could serve as a "humiliation" style kill, like an Impact Hammer or Gauntlet or whatnot

The problem is that it's actually not weak if used for surprise attacks, and mainly favors sonic who is already overpowered barring specific level design practices.

On the other hand, if you could just use it as a way to induce recoil without hurting or stunning the target, that would be kinda cool.

 

[Mystic]

Melee attacks in SRB2 match break the game's balance pretty heavily. If you want to use melee attacks, Super forms, Invincibility, and Elemental Shield all provide methods to do so. Also, we have a close range weapon, Scatter, which is extremely powerful at the range you need to be at to melee someone.

For those that are curious, the big issue in allowing melee attacks is that it allows a player with no rings (especially one that was just hit) to attack players at no cost. In match, we have a resource system where players gather resources, such as rings, ammo, and weapons, and use those resources to attack each other. Melee attacks would sidestep the entire game's mechanics as they are now.

 

[Blacklightning]

The problem is that it's actually not weak if used for surprise attacks,

If you actually managed to catch someone by surprise to that degree, I really doubt it would've mattered if you used a roll, ring or even an armageddon sheild - it's practically a guaranteed hit either way if you don't suck. The main balancing point for a roll is that you'd have to catch the victim by surprise for the most part, unlike the latter two - in a straight firefight, a single Red Ring can easily counter it, let alone a Scatter or Grenade. In addition, it's extremely predictable, easy to dodge and difficult to dodge out of (due to less responsive turn/strafe controls mid roll). I'm having a pretty difficult time imagining how it could be overpowered outside of the usual "surprise cockfags" approach that humiliation attacks already specialise in.

and mainly favors sonic who is already overpowered barring specific level design practices.

Unless you're talking about a potential thok-roll strategy, I don't really see what you're getting at. Even then, all it takes is a simple sidestep or decently aimed red ring to prevent - in fact, I'd argue a thokroll would be even more difficult to pull off because neither move has decent sideways movement after execution, and gives the enemy more time to react, even if only a bit more.

EDIT:

For those that are curious, the big issue in allowing melee attacks is that it allows a player with no rings (especially one that was just hit) to attack players at no cost.

Easily fixable. Just remove the ability to hit with the spindash while grace invunlerability is active. As for when it's not, well, single red ring to the face, easy solution. You'd have to be incredibly suicidal or outright idiotic to attempt spinning someone with no rings, especially if they see you coming first.

In match, we have a resource system where players gather resources, such as rings, ammo, and weapons, and use those resources to attack each other. Melee attacks would sidestep the entire game's mechanics as they are now.

Not if weapon rings are still the more well-rounded and generally more effective of the lot. A decently aimed weapon ring can still counter a roll in most contexts bar a select few, and any smart player would likely learn not to rely on it unless they could get a decent hit in.

Alternatively, you could just make it a server option and turn it on or off as you please. Something for everyone and whatnot.

 

[Fawfulfan]

Impact Hammer

Ah, another fan of Unreal Tournament?

Anyway, here's an idea: What if Melee attacks were a resource, just like ring gathering? Here's what I mean: You could only Melee attack someone if you have a shield, and you immediately lose the shield if you choose to do so.

The properties of the shield would transfer into Melee attacks. Here's what I mean:

Whirlwind Melee Attack: The attacker gets blown really high into the air upon execution of the attack.
Attraction Melee Attack: The attacker homes in on the opponent, making this attack much harder to dodge.
Elemental Melee Attack: A circle of flames flies out from the point where the hit occurred.
Force Melee Attack: No special effect, but the move can be used twice.
Armageddon Melee Attack: The items the victim drops are unrecoverable.



Now, here's a completely unrelated idea:

Have Jet Jaws and Big Mines be affected by gravity when they are out of water.

 

[Fred]

For those that are curious, the big issue in allowing melee attacks is that it allows a player with no rings (especially one that was just hit) to attack players at no cost. In match, we have a resource system where players gather resources, such as rings, ammo, and weapons, and use those resources to attack each other. Melee attacks would sidestep the entire game's mechanics as they are now.

I was thinking the spin dash might only hurt if you're going fast enough (enough to get a trail to appear, for instance). Blacklighting's idea of disabling it during temporary invincibility also seems like a good way to balance it out.

Anyway, here's an idea: What if Melee attacks were a resource, just like ring gathering? Here's what I mean: You could only Melee attack someone if you have a shield, and you immediately lose the shield if you choose to do so.

The properties of the shield would transfer into Melee attacks. Here's what I mean:

Whirlwind Melee Attack: The attacker gets blown really high into the air upon execution of the attack.
Attraction Melee Attack: The attacker homes in on the opponent, making this attack much harder to dodge.
Elemental Melee Attack: A circle of flames flies out from the point where the hit occurred.
Force Melee Attack: No special effect, but the move can be used twice.
Armageddon Melee Attack: The items the victim drops are unrecoverable.



Now, here's a completely unrelated idea:

Have Jet Jaws and Big Mines be affected by gravity when they are out of water.

This is the discussion topic.

 

[Mystic]

I was thinking the spin dash might only hurt if you're going fast enough (enough to get a trail to appear, for instance). Blacklighting's idea of disabling it during temporary invincibility also seems like a good way to balance it out.

Here's the big problem: If the spindash hurts, then everyone is going to expect the thok to hurt. If you take this to the reasonable conclusion, it breaks the character balance (hell, just allowing spindash only is a huge boon to Sonic and Sonic only) and makes all of the abilities that are currently used for mobility into something that you're constantly using if only but that you don't want someone to bump into you, so you jump constantly to keep in the spin frames for the pure benefit of bouncing off someone else who's spinning. This is not something we want to encourage. Anyone who's played SA2's versus mode probably remembers the stupid homing attack exchanges that occasionally happened in that game.

This also opens up the nasty can of worms of "players touching each other" which we intentionally dodge entirely in match/ctf. If you allow spindashing, you have to deal with spindash collisions, bouncing, and other quirks. There is also the issue of visibility, since the player can't see what frames they're in while in first person, so they can't see if they're in their spin frame or not directly.

A long time ago I remember trying to add melee attacks into 1.X's match system, and all of this baggage made it clear that it simply wasn't going to work out. There is a reason why 2.0's weapon system introduced a close-range weapon. I like the gameplay produced by getting up close to someone, but I can't use literal melee attacks because it creates a problem in our gameplay system. Hence, point-blank Scatter and the high-risk, high-reward gameplay that comes with it. Sure, you have to hit the fire button at the proper time, but launching them far away from you is just as good as you'd get from a proper melee attack anyhow.

We also made the Elemental Shield and Invincibility boxes a lot more common so you actually get a chance to use that style of melee attack on other people. Getting someone with a melee Invincibility attack is incredibly satisfying.

 

[Fawfulfan]

You know, guys, there actually IS a special SOC'd addon (Brawl Weapons, I think it's called) that basically changes the whole battle system to Melee-style combos. It's fun and novel for about ten seconds, and then gets really annoying.

I will say this, though--why should a spindash melee move benefit Sonic more than the others? All the default characters can spindash...it's just that Sonic can spindash a little more quickly. I can't imagine that would make a world of difference in unbalancing the characters.

 

[sims]

You know, guys, there actually IS a special SOC'd addon (Brawl Weapons, I think it's called) that basically changes the whole battle system to Melee-style combos. It's fun and novel for about ten seconds, and then gets really annoying.

I will say this, though--why should a spindash melee move benefit Sonic more than the others? All the default characters can spindash...it's just that Sonic can spindash a little more quickly. I can't imagine that would make a world of difference in unbalancing the characters.

Thok + Spin towards opponents.

 

[Kaysakado]

[14:36] <Kaysakado> Have nodes show how many free nodes are left :O

 

[Mystic]

Simsmagic has it. Sonic is the only character that could practically use spindash as an attack if it was possible to do so. Tails and Knuckles would both have to do it from standstill to do it at any reasonable speed, which is not practical at all.

 

[Fred]

Here's the big problem: If the spindash hurts, then everyone is going to expect the thok to hurt. If you take this to the reasonable conclusion, it breaks the character balance (hell, just allowing spindash only is a huge boon to Sonic and Sonic only) and makes all of the abilities that are currently used for mobility into something that you're constantly using if only but that you don't want someone to bump into you, so you jump constantly to keep in the spin frames for the pure benefit of bouncing off someone else who's spinning. This is not something we want to encourage. Anyone who's played SA2's versus mode probably remembers the stupid homing attack exchanges that occasionally happened in that game.

This also opens up the nasty can of worms of "players touching each other" which we intentionally dodge entirely in match/ctf. If you allow spindashing, you have to deal with spindash collisions, bouncing, and other quirks. There is also the issue of visibility, since the player can't see what frames they're in while in first person, so they can't see if they're in their spin frame or not directly.

A long time ago I remember trying to add melee attacks into 1.X's match system, and all of this baggage made it clear that it simply wasn't going to work out. There is a reason why 2.0's weapon system introduced a close-range weapon. I like the gameplay produced by getting up close to someone, but I can't use literal melee attacks because it creates a problem in our gameplay system. Hence, point-blank Scatter and the high-risk, high-reward gameplay that comes with it. Sure, you have to hit the fire button at the proper time, but launching them far away from you is just as good as you'd get from a proper melee attack anyhow.

We also made the Elemental Shield and Invincibility boxes a lot more common so you actually get a chance to use that style of melee attack on other people. Getting someone with a melee Invincibility attack is incredibly satisfying.

A few random, hopefully coherent points:

I suggested having spindash damage as a fun little extra, and not as the new framework of Match strategy.

You're talking as if adding spindash damage would remove the whole first-person shooter part of Match. Just because people might have another move to fall back on doesn't mean that it's the only thing they can do. A single red ring to the face can't can still stop a spinning player, much like what happens with flame trail spamming right now.

Why would people expect the thok, let alone jumping, to deal damage? There's a clear difference between a fast spindash and a regular spin/jump: the trail that is left behind the player. The thok uses the same afterimage, but only for a single frame, so there's really no way for people to get confused, unless they're complete morons. Next you're going to tell me people would ask why Knuckles doesn't hurt players by gliding through them.

What spindash collision, bouncing, etc? Just make it standard damage like we already have with the elemental shield, it works fine.

Anyway, this is all moot, since I didn't take into consideration thok+spin. That would make Sonic the obvious "best" choice again, which is something we've been slowly trying to negate.

 

[Mystic]

You're talking as if adding spindash damage would remove the whole first-person shooter part of Match. Just because people might have another move to fall back on doesn't mean that it's the only thing they can do. A single red ring to the face can't still stop a spinning player, much like what happens with flame trail spamming right now.

It would change how dropped rings would work. That's a core part of the game. You could simply start charging a spindash and seriously threaten anyone who tried to take your stuff. If it was nullified when temporarily invincible, then it would simply be an important part of the game to know exactly how long temporary invincibility lasts so you could connect with them on exactly the frame when it wears off, so they have no chance to shoot you out of it.

Why would people expect the thok, let alone jumping, to deal damage? There's a clear difference between a fast spindash and a regular spin/jump: the trail that is left behind the player. The thok uses the same afterimage, but only for a single frame, so there's really no way for people to get confused, unless they're complete morons. Next you're going to tell me people would ask why Knuckles doesn't hurt players by gliding through them.

This is exactly it. Players WOULD expect the jumping, gliding, and even Tails's flight to deal damage if the spindash did. In single player, all of those things deal damage and the afterimage trail makes no difference at all. Why would it be any different in multiplayer? Part of the point of making no physical attacks hit is to make it clear that player collision isn't part of the game. All the player special abilities are purely for mobility in SRB2 match, and you need powerups or thrown rings to deal damage to other players.

What spindash collision, bouncing, etc? Just make it standard damage like we already have with the elemental shield, it works fine.

I spindash into you and you spindash into me. We should bounce. If I jump, do you bounce off me then as well? You did in SA2, which is the only example I can think of where players got to interact in that manner. How do you deal with clashes where players melee attack into each other? This is a significant problem. For the curious, this is actually why Knuckles has the fire rate buff in match now. The original idea was to let him melee players by touch similar to how he breaks walls by touch, but this kind of player interaction opens up a lot of questions regarding how you deal with Knuckles vs. Knuckles interactions. The fire rate buff was an alternative idea presented to buff him that didn't open up that can of worms, so we went with that instead. Personally I'm extremely happy we didn't go with the melee attack option.

Anyway, this is all moot, since I didn't take into consideration thok+spin. That would make Sonic the obvious "best" choice again, which is something we've been slowly trying to negate.

What I'm trying to say is that more than just the character balance hinges on the fact that players can't attack each other without powerups or rings. That kind of change would dramatically alter the gameplay, not just provide a small addition in how the player could attack other players.

 

[Spazzo]

Throwing my two cents into the melting pot:

What if we negated the damage aspect of it entirely, and just made it into a humorous maneuver?

Hear me out: Spinning into a player will send them flying in a parabolic arch (think SSB:SS), the height and length of which is determined by how fast you're spinning into them. However, it doesn't take any damage away -- it just sends the player flying in their pain state. No ring/ammo spillage, no shield loss, not even death when it's done with 0 rings. Heck, it doesn't even have to grant any points (making it the ideal humiliation tactic on, say, Nimbus Ruins), although if that was the case, it would probably only grant 25. The max launch distance would probably be ~1/2 the length of Meadow Match, or something around that.

Oh, did I mention flash time? Yeah, all of a split second, to prevent being spun into and shot at the same time. The player being launched can try and fire back, or for the ultimate combo, someone can shoot at the guy in the air and watch him soar.

Player Vs. Stationary Spindash: Sent back a fixed distance and height. Remember how Tails would react to hazards in Sonic 2 when you were playing as Sonic? That's the same idea.

Spindash Vs. Spindash: Whichever is faster, wins. In the rare case that they have equal speed, they both get sent back.

An enjoyable (not to mention Sonic-esque) addition to the multiplayer experience without breaking the all-important character balance.

 

[Cue]

By the way, I do not have the time to search for an answer to this, but, is there any way for SRB2 to increase the downloading rate for getting files from servers? An average rate of 50 KB/S is pretty slow, especially when you are able to download at much faster speeds than that. I do not see why you are restricted to downloading at that average speed.

50kb/s is pretty good for downloading, actually, considering you're limited to the upload speed of the host, which will be serving clients already.

-bandwidth: defaults at I believe 20000 and SHOULD be 500000 or something....

Increasing bandwidth is asking for trouble, here's some statistics:

][22:55:29] <Cue_EeeXP> Who wants some fun faaaaacts?
[22:55:41] <Cinefast_Phone> Meeeeeeeeeee
[22:55:47] <Whackjood> Fire away, eh?
[22:55:52] <Cue_EeeXP> SRB2 uses 0.83gb an hour with 8 players, in comparison, TF2 uses...
[22:55:54] <Cue_EeeXP> Guess, I dare you
[22:56:03] <Whackjood> 0.54gb?
[22:56:08] <Cue_EeeXP> With 17 players, try it
[22:56:11] <Cinefast_Phone> 0.45
[22:56:13] <Cue_EeeXP> Try and guess per hour
[22:56:21] <@Inuyasha> 351mb
[22:56:24] <Cue_EeeXP> ^
[22:56:39] <Cue_EeeXP> TF2 with 17 players uses around 350mb per hour
[22:56:55] <Cue_EeeXP> SRB2 uses over double that with 8 players
[22:57:02] <Cue_EeeXP> The horrifying truth :<
[22:57:05] <Whackjood> So, basically. SRB2 is really inefficient regarding bandwith?
[22:57:08] <Cue_EeeXP> Yes
[22:57:09] <Cue_EeeXP> Very
[22:57:20] <Cue_EeeXP> Probably part of the reason as to why netgames suck
[22:58:02] <Cue_EeeXP> Since your average upload can only handle... What? 256kb/sec?
[22:58:08] <Cue_EeeXP> If you're very lucky
[22:58:17] <Cue_EeeXP> Mine only handles 1mbit =|
[22:59:41] <Cue_EeeXP> So, if you backtrack...
[23:00:10] <Cue_EeeXP> TF2 uses 100kb/sec with 17 players
[23:00:53] <Cue_EeeXP> SRB2 uses 241kb/sec with 8.
[23:02:58] <Cue_EeeXP> Which pretty much caps out anyone's upload on the high end of the spectrum, unless they're using God mode (Read: 10/100/1000mbit)

 

[Autosaver]

So... why does SRB2 use so much?

 

[Kaysakado]

because srb2 netcode is dumb

 

[SonicX8000]

Supportive Panels in Match/CTF, these won't be like Weapon panels and such, but to give an idea of one.

*Custom made to give as a suggestion.*

Name : Ammo Doubler
-----
Info : Doubles the amount of ring ammo that you have/carry. Say that... err, the max for Greande Rings is 50, right? With this Panel collected, you are allowed to have 100 instead of 50, and if you have 35/50 grenade Ammo with you, it'll be doubled to 70/100.
-----
Drawbacks : If you take damage, the panel is dropped, meaning that if you have any ammo that was doubled, the effect is lost, if your current ammo was... say 67/100, it will be dropped to 33 to 34/50. If the panel is dropped 3 to 5 times, the panel disappears and you will have to wait for another one to appear.
(You can change the settings to how many times these supportive panels will appear via the Muti-player menu. By default, only 2 will appear.)

 

[Blacklightning]

Here's the big problem: If the spindash hurts, then everyone is going to expect the thok to hurt.

Isn't it a bit early to be jumping to that kind of conclusion? I don't think I've ever seen any other move be requested to be multiplayer damagable, just the roll.

and makes all of the abilities that are currently used for mobility into something that you're constantly using if only but that you don't want someone to bump into you, so you jump constantly to keep in the spin frames for the pure benefit of bouncing off someone else who's spinning. This is not something we want to encourage. Anyone who's played SA2's versus mode probably remembers the stupid homing attack exchanges that occasionally happened in that game.

And what of just shooting them before they get close? Why haven't you refuted that point yet? It certaintly seems the more logical thing to do for me, considering just about anyone is restricted to a near-straight line when rolling or even thokking. Even that considered, constant strafing makes you a difficult target to hit with such a linear attack, and even something as simple as jumping (or flying, but I know some people who consider that making you a big target for weapon rings) in timely fashion to avoid being hit.

This also opens up the nasty can of worms of "players touching each other" which we intentionally dodge entirely in match/ctf. If you allow spindashing, you have to deal with spindash collisions, bouncing, and other quirks.

That's a fair cop I guess (though I'd still appreciate a bit of elaboration on it), but that's why I support this being a console command instead - because whether or not I want to admit it, a damaging spindash isn't exactly going to be fair everywhere, and it wouldn't exactly be out of place next to, oh say, one hit kills (suddendeath), or random suicides (killingdead).

There is also the issue of visibility, since the player can't see what frames they're in while in first person, so they can't see if they're in their spin frame or not directly.

With all due respect, that's something you should've fixed ages ago. Just add a little Doomface icon on the HUD that shows your current sprite in frontal view. Bam.

It would change how dropped rings would work. That's a core part of the game. You could simply start charging a spindash and seriously threaten anyone who tried to take your stuff. If it was nullified when temporarily invincible, then it would simply be an important part of the game to know exactly how long temporary invincibility lasts so you could connect with them on exactly the frame when it wears off, so they have no chance to shoot you out of it.

Then go one step further and prevent them from charging a spindash at all while grace-invulnerable. That, or prevent one from doing damage if it was charged during the same period. Even neglecting either of those two potential fixes, you're still home free if you can grab enough before grace invulnerability wears off - and need I remind you the invulnerable one can still damage you anyway if they manage to pick up at least one ring of their own (which, let's face it, is pretty common to begin with)? This isn't exactly new.

I spindash into you and you spindash into me. We should bounce. If I jump, do you bounce off me then as well? You did in SA2, which is the only example I can think of where players got to interact in that manner. How do you deal with clashes where players melee attack into each other?

You don't seriously think this silly bouncing behaviour is the only way about it, do you? Hell, they could pass straight through each other for all we care, as long as it's a viable attack method otherwise. And yet again I reiterate: any smart player would resort to ranged weapons anyway as a counter as long as they have the priority, which as far as I can see, they do, unless someone teaches the spindash to deflect projectiles or some equally crazy shit. Frankly I don't even see why you feel the need to implement behaviour beyond "spinning player touches enemy player, enemy player loses rings". Unless it's preventing the possibility of stealing all their items in one shot ala Super Sonic ramming.

Throwing my two cents into the melting pot:

What if we negated the damage aspect of it entirely, and just made it into a humorous maneuver?

Hear me out: Spinning into a player will send them flying in a parabolic arch (think SSB:SS), the height and length of which is determined by how fast you're spinning into them. However, it doesn't take any damage away -- it just sends the player flying in their pain state. No ring/ammo spillage, no shield loss, not even death when it's done with 0 rings. Heck, it doesn't even have to grant any points (making it the ideal humiliation tactic on, say, Nimbus Ruins), although if that was the case, it would probably only grant 25. The max launch distance would probably be ~1/2 the length of Meadow Match, or something around that.

Oh, did I mention flash time? Yeah, all of a split second, to prevent being spun into and shot at the same time. The player being launched can try and fire back, or for the ultimate combo, someone can shoot at the guy in the air and watch him soar.

Player Vs. Stationary Spindash: Sent back a fixed distance and height. Remember how Tails would react to hazards in Sonic 2 when you were playing as Sonic? That's the same idea.

Spindash Vs. Spindash: Whichever is faster, wins. In the rare case that they have equal speed, they both get sent back.

An enjoyable (not to mention Sonic-esque) addition to the multiplayer experience without breaking the all-important character balance.

To be honest, I wouldn't be against this behaviour either. I wouldn't mind a minor disruption over a lethal attack as long as the spin did something to other players.

 

[Mystic]

Isn't it a bit early to be jumping to that kind of conclusion? I don't think I've ever seen any other move be requested to be multiplayer damagable, just the roll.

That's because the roll is the first thing that comes to mind. Trust me, if we made the spindash harm other players, we'll get shittons of questions asking why everything else doesn't hurt. After all, it does in single player.

And what of just shooting them before they get close? Why haven't you refuted that point yet? It certaintly seems the more logical thing to do for me, considering just about anyone is restricted to a near-straight line when rolling or even thokking. Even that considered, constant strafing makes you a difficult target to hit with such a linear attack, and even something as simple as jumping (or flying, but I know some people who consider that making you a big target for weapon rings) in timely fashion to avoid being hit.

The issue with this is that you aren't always going to know that the other player is behind you. By far, the most effective way to do this would be to thok at someone from outsider their viewpoint and spin directly into them. They would have very little time to hear the thok SFX, point at you and fire, and your accuracy is going to be pretty low if you miss. If you succeed, you'll have just pulled off a complete steal of all their items. If you find an alcove out of common sight, you could also just charge the spindash from far away and release it at full power. Once moving, the spindash is silent and you are entirely capable of ramming someone from behind who cannot hear you coming at all. The risk of being shot out of it is clearly worth the reward of completely screwing the other player over.

That's a fair cop I guess (though I'd still appreciate a bit of elaboration on it), but that's why I support this being a console command instead - because whether or not I want to admit it, a damaging spindash isn't exactly going to be fair everywhere, and it wouldn't exactly be out of place next to, oh say, one hit kills (suddendeath), or random suicides (killingdead).

Players don't collide in match/CTF except for tailspickup. The reason for this is partly because in the old days, you DID collide and it provided a really cheap hit on the player you collided with. If anyone here has messed around with tailspickup off, you're probably familiar with the quirky behavior that high speed collisions between players caused.

We don't have it as an option for the same reason we don't have an option for things like weapon stacking. Sure, it could be amusing, but it would unbalance the game and we'd prefer that any modes that you don't need to modify the game for are balanced at a basic level.

With all due respect, that's something you should've fixed ages ago. Just add a little Doomface icon on the HUD that shows your current sprite in frontal view. Bam.

Why do we need such a thing? We don't need to worry about what frame the player is in because it's not relevant in match/ctf. Adding melee attacks would MAKE it relevant, and that's part of what makes it a problem. Sure, you could add a HUD element to display it, but that's not something that would be remotely elegant or necessary when simply keeping it unimportant solves the problem directly.

Then go one step further and prevent them from charging a spindash at all while grace-invulnerable. That, or prevent one from doing damage if it was charged during the same period. Even neglecting either of those two potential fixes, you're still home free if you can grab enough before grace invulnerability wears off - and need I remind you the invulnerable one can still damage you anyway if they manage to pick up at least one ring of their own (which, let's face it, is pretty common to begin with)? This isn't exactly new.

It's not new, but the necessity of all these exceptions is what makes it so important. Why make things so complex with so many exceptions for a simple melee attack that breaks the core SRB2 match gameplay.

You don't seriously think this silly bouncing behaviour is the only way about it, do you? Hell, they could pass straight through each other for all we care, as long as it's a viable attack method otherwise. And yet again I reiterate: any smart player would resort to ranged weapons anyway as a counter as long as they have the priority, which as far as I can see, they do, unless someone teaches the spindash to deflect projectiles or some equally crazy shit. Frankly I don't even see why you feel the need to implement behaviour beyond "spinning player touches enemy player, enemy player loses rings". Unless it's preventing the possibility of stealing all their items in one shot ala Super Sonic ramming.

The problem isn't that it's possible to counter. The problem is that it's a high reward activity for no cost. SRB2 match is designed around resources. You pick up rings, weapons, and ammo and use them to attack other players. When you do not have any rings, you are defenseless. Spindashing doing ANYTHING sidesteps this entire system entirely. There is no cost to spindashing, where-as everything else requires an item or ring to do damage. This is the core problem here.