Sonic mania theory

[time gear]

With all of this in mind and the fact that Classic Eggman knows how Modern Eggman failed, it should make him a bigger threat. He knows exactly what’ll happen if the Master Emerald is to break open and he knows exactly what’s on Space Colony ARK. Imagine a Classic reimagining of many of Sonic’s stories. Shadow would still have his Modern form, so Classic Eggman opening his capsule up earlier could give Shadow the advantage over Sonic since they’re no longer equally matched like they were in SA2. Now Shadow is taller and likely faster. Classic Eggman would also know not to unleash the Biolizard, so he would still maintain control over the ARK.

There is so many new possibilities that could happen and Mania was a sneak peek of that

If they ever do bring Shadow into the Mania timeline, I'd prefer they give him a Classic style redesign.

 

[Icarus]

If they ever do bring Shadow into the Mania timeline, I'd prefer they give him a Classic style redesign.

Classic Shadow doesn't exist.

I'd rather have them to make a clean up for the character roster (so people would stop complaining about the sh*** friends) and I'd rather see Shadow, Rouge, the Chaotix & Co in spin-offs.

 

[Chezi]

If they ever do bring Shadow into the Mania timeline, I'd prefer they give him a Classic style redesign.

A Classic design would be cool and all, but that’s just not canonically correct since we see him with a Modern design in flashbacks that take place before Sonic 1

Post automatically merged: Jun 6, 2021

Since when did I say that I hate Modern sonic? I was talking about Mania's timeline becoming the main one after Forces (as Robotnik was defeated for good in this game).

Robotnik isn’t defeated for good in the main timeline. He’s defeated pretty much the same way in each game, so saying Forces is the definitive ending isn’t true at all

 

[time gear]

Classic Shadow doesn't exist.

Before Sonic got a redesign, Modern Sonic didn't exist either. This is a non-point. Art style changes aren't canon. Even in Generations the two versions of Tails had a hard time telling Sonic apart, which wouldn't be the case if they didn't canonically look identical. The two Sonic's even looked at each other in a glass "mirror" and didn't realize they weren't looking at their reflection at first.

A Classic design would be cool and all, but that’s just not canonically correct since we see him with a Modern design in flashbacks that take place before Sonic 1

As I just pointed out, art style changes aren't canon. It's just all about theming and fitting in.

 

[Chezi]

Before Sonic got a redesign, Modern Sonic didn't exist either. This is a non-point. Art style changes aren't canon. Even in Generations the two versions of Tails had a hard time telling Sonic apart, which wouldn't be the case if they didn't canonically look identical. The two Sonic's even looked at each other in a glass "mirror" and didn't realize they weren't looking at their reflection at first.

Eh, that's a fair point

 

[Icarus]

Rbotnik isn’t defeated for good in the main timeline. He’s defeated pretty much the same way in each game, so saying Forces is the definitive ending isn’t true at all

I've finished Sonic Forces and I'm pretty sure he's dead or left alone in Null Space after the final boss is defeated

Before Sonic got a redesign, Modern Sonic didn't exist either. This is a non-point. Art style changes aren't canon. Even in Generations the two versions of Tails had a hard time telling Sonic apart, which wouldn't be the case if they didn't canonically look identical. The two Sonic's even looked at each other in a glass "mirror" and didn't realize they weren't looking at their reflection at first.

As I just pointed out, art style changes aren't canon. It's just all about theming and fitting in.

No, Classic Sonic is a totally separate character from Modern so logically the others are. This is why the Modern Chaotix are never referencing to Mighty despite being part of their team in the Classic games.

It's like how Mighty and Ray never appeared in person in the modern games.

 

[Chezi]

I've finished Sonic Forces and I'm pretty sure he's dead or left alone in Null Space after the final boss is defeated

Eggman has been stranded in space and other dimensions plenty of times and he's still made it back

No, Classic Sonic is a totally separate character from Modern so logically the others are. This is why the Modern Chaotix are never referencing to Mighty despite being part of their team in the Classic games.

It's like how Mighty and Ray never appeared in person in the modern games.

He's talking about the actual design, not the lore behind the characters. Mighty and Ray have never appeared in the Modern games because they just haven't needed to appear. They still exist as seen in Generations' City Escape and it's likely that Mighty isn't actually a part of the Chaotix

 

[time gear]

No, Classic Sonic is a totally separate character from Modern so logically the others are. This is why the Modern Chaotix are never referencing to Mighty despite being part of their team in the Classic games.

It's like how Mighty and Ray never appeared in person in the modern games.

Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic are the same character. Modern Sonic still experienced Sonic 1 - 3&K. Tails even makes reference to his vague memories of Chemical Plant Zone in Generations, and Sonic in Forces refers to Green Hill as one of his favorite places to run. Tails even refers to the classic locations as "Places and enemies from our past" in Generations, referring to the entire group of all four of them. At the time of Generations, the Classic Sonic we see is still Modern Sonic's past self, and only ceases to be after the events of the game at which point he chooses to live out a new future which creates the Mania Timeline. This is only one version of events that happens for this specific Classic Sonic. In another version of events, Classic Sonic goes on to become Modern Sonic. In another, he goes on to live out the events of 06. They are all the same "person" with the same past up to a certain point, the timeline is just split causing them to experience different futures.

Mighty's true relationship with the Chaotix isn't something that's been elaborated on. He could be a more loose member, he could be a former member, etc. For all we know, he's more of a loner type who just likes going on adventures with Ray and only takes jobs with the rest of the Chaotix when he's needed.

He's talking about the actual design, not the lore behind the characters.

Yes. Effectively, the way the characters look is an art style choice. Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic don't canonically look different, they just look different to us because of the way the developers chose to depict them artistically. It's for our benefit to be able to tell them apart and to experience nostalgia, not anything rooted within the story narrative.

 

[Icarus]

Then why Sega gave them two different names?

Also when you look at other characters such as Crash and Spyro you see that their "modern" incarnations/redesign are totally different characters than their original (like the Crash with the tattoo or Skylanders Spyro).


I am strictly against seeing Modern Characters in Classic games (even with a redesign) because they wouldn't fit nor respect the spirit of the classic era.

I'm glad Whitehead didn't put modern elements into Mania.

 

[time gear]

Then why Sega gave them two different names?

They didn't. They're both just Sonic. "Modern" Sonic and "Classic" Sonic refer to art styles and gameplay styles. They both feature the same character, named Sonic.

Also when you look at other characters such as Crash and Spyro you see that their "modern" incarnations/redesign are totally different characters than their original (like the Crash with the tattoo or Skylanders Spyro).

Skylanders Spyro is actually a different character from Classic Spyro, and they are both different characters from Legend of Spyro. However, the same doesn't apply to Crash. The writing and art style changed, sure, but canonically Titans and MoM take place in a series of events that includes the original trilogy. As such, "Classic" Crash and "Tattoo" Crash are the same character.

I am strictly against seeing Modern Characters in Classic games (even with a redesign) because they wouldn't fit nor respect the spirit of the classic era.

That's an incredibly limited mindset. Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Metal, Amy, Vector, Espio, and Charmy all were able to bridge the gap from Classic to Modern. The opposite is every bit as possible. The same kind of design changes but in the opposite direction could very easily work to make any of the Modern cast fit in a Classic style environment. Think of it as if the Chaotix had first appeared in Heroes with their Knuckles Chaotix interpretations happening later. That kind of thing can work for any of the other characters as well.

That said, they would require such redesigns, which is why I brought up Shadow needing one to begin with.

I'm glad Whitehead didn't put modern elements into Mania.

Except like it or not, it does have them. In much the same way that SRB2 is able to take inspiration from more modern games and stylize it with a classic flair, Mania is the same sort of thing but in 2D. For example, the sections where you spin down funnels in Studiopolis are inspired by similar sections from Casino Paradise in Sonic Advance, and even use close to the same sound clips.

 

[Darknik]

No, Classic Sonic is a totally separate character from Modern so logically the others are. This is why the Modern Chaotix are never referencing to Mighty despite being part of their team in the Classic games.

It's like how Mighty and Ray never appeared in person in the modern games.

mighty is not a member of the chaotix that only happens in the archie comics is more according to the japanese manual there is not even a chaotix since each one arrived for their own reasons not because they were a team for example mighty came to the island on one of his explorations the team chaotix was something that was made for sonic heroes

 

[KrazeeTobi]

mighty is not a member of the chaotix that only happens in the archie comics is more according to the japanese manual there is not even a chaotix since each one arrived for their own reasons not because they were a team for example mighty came to the island on one of his explorations the team chaotix was something that was made for sonic heroes

Have.. Have you forgotten that the Western canon literally mentions that Robotnik trapped his friends (which includes the modern Chaotix crew and Mighty)? Also yeah, thanks SEGA for another canon mess.

 

[Icarus]

I prefer to consider Modern Vector/Espio/Charmy to be completely different characters from the 32X game.

Heroes is maybe closer to the classic games in many way but the modern (aka since Adventure) continuity is its own thing.

 

[time gear]

Heroes is maybe closer to the classic games in many way but the modern (aka since Adventure) continuity is its own thing.

The only context in which the "modern continuity" is it's own thing is one in which Sonic 1-3&K still happened, and to the exact same Sonic. This is directly confirmed canon within the games themselves. I've already gone over the Generations and Forces examples, but there are others as well such as Amy reminiscing about Sonic CD in Adventure.

 

[Chezi]

The only context in which the "modern continuity" is it's own thing is one in which Sonic 1-3&K still happened, and to the exact same Sonic. This is directly confirmed canon within the games themselves. I've already gone over the Generations and Forces examples, but there are others as well such as Amy reminiscing about Sonic CD in Adventure.

Don’t forget that in Adventure, Sonic directly makes a callback to 3&K when he teases Knuckles about being easily tricked by Eggman again

 

[Andres_Craft]

Don’t forget that in Adventure, Sonic directly makes a callback to 3&K when he teases Knuckles about being easily tricked by Eggman again

Plus a random kid hinting at the Angel island events, and in a demo, even little planet.

 

[Icarus]

Plus a random kid hinting at the Angel island events, and in a demo, even little planet.

Only in the trial version, not the full release.